User talk:Kennyannydenny

Welcome to the Order, Kennyannydenny!

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Feel free to contact me on my talkpage if you need anything. Master Sima Yi (talk) 20:59, December 27, 2013 (UTC)

RE: Egyptian mythology

Hey man,

If you know a lot about Egyptian mythology, then you're perfect for writing the article. One important thing though: make sure that all information you put on there can be traced back to Origins (or Discovery Tour if need be). I'm sure by now you know we have a very strict sourcing policy in place, so if it is not featured in the game, we cannot rightfully assume it also exists in the AC universe. (Of course, it is most likely the same, but it can always end up being slightly different, so best not to spread misinformation.) -- Master Sima Yi _Talk 09:42, March 27, 2018 (UTC)

Issue with your Egyptian mythology page

You might wanna check some of your info. The stuff about Wadjet, Hermes, and Thoth is wrong. The Cult of Wadjet operated out of Karanis and surrounding area not Hermapolis and the defaced statue and murdered priest were in the Serapeon of Karanis not the Temple of Thoth. Also Baba is not the god represent by the baboon topped canopic jar. That would be Hapi who is also depicted as a baboon but is one of the Four Sons of Horus. Finally I don’t know if you wanna add that Serapis has attributes taken from Hades and Dionysus as well as Osiris and Apis which is where the name comes from. I’m not sure the Greek gods are ever explicitly mentioned in the game or the Discovery Tour but his statues are depicted with a bident and three headed dog, symbols of Hades. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 09:46, April 4, 2018 (UTC)

Hi Lacrossedeamon, thanks for the tips! Feel free to edit the article as you see fit. I indeed mixed up Baba and Hapi, it's a big 'mess' the Egyptian mythology and it's hard to keep track of everything in my head, sometimes things get mixed up :) I couldn't remember the name of the town of the cult of Wadjet, did a quick search but apparently that source was wrong. Not sure if Hades is actually mentioned, I saw Bacchus (the Roman equivalent of Dionysus) being mentioned by name during a quest in Cyrene, Osiris and Apis are of course mentioned several times. Can't remember Hades or Dionysos being mentioned though, but I think it's worth a mention. Kennyannydenny (talk) 14:29, April 4, 2018 (UTC)

RE:Page renaming

Hello Kenny, I just wanted to say thank you for notifying me about the pages Machete and Cannon needing to be renamed properly. I despise those plural titles so much, and it is always good to be alerted when there are rogue pages still lying around. Cheers! Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 21:04, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

Hey sorry for the late reply. As per Wikipedia guidelines, there are actually certain types of pages which should be in the plural because it is more convenient to discuss them in a group. A common example are those concerning political subdivisions such as Provinces of Canada. Wikipedia also has a policy of treating pages on groups of people, such as Arabs or Egyptians in the plural. In the past, people here didn't quite understand when certain pages, such as Sword don't necessarily have to be discussed as a group. Cases like administrative subdivisions or people groups are hard exceptions and should not be the norm.

The reason why I'm explaining this is because the pages you see leftover in the plural are those which I was lenient about and wasn't sure if these exceptions apply in the Assassin's Creed context, especially since formerly, fans knew professions like mercenaries and courtesans always in the collective sense. I also have a hard time determining if Rifts and Borgia Towers should be treated similarly as Provinces of Canada in the sense that we'd almost always discuss them as parts of a whole concept. This is why it took me a while to respond because I have been pondering over the matter.

I think I will at the very least go ahead and change the articles on professions because there are plenty of mercenaries, thieves, doctors, etc. who aren't part of the "factions" employed by the Assassins. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 14:44, September 10, 2018 (UTC)

No, it is fine that if you didn't give too much of a thought about it before because you weren't expected to. I appreciate that you care about consistency since to be quite honest with you, it seems many of the old administrators gave even less thought about. To clarify, it is unprecedented for articles to be in the plural; grammatically, the base form of a word should always be used unless strong reason otherwise, and this form is the singular noun. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 15:06, September 10, 2018 (UTC)

Here is Wikipedia's guideline on this matter. Reading this, can you determine if Rifts and Borgia Towers fall under the exceptions listed, such as articles about groups or classes of specific things? I just have a hard time wrapping my head around whether this applies or not with these two. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 15:47, September 10, 2018 (UTC)

Athenian Leader et al

Heya, Kennyannydenny ;)

The reasoning behind redirecting and grouping those quests for The Athenian Leader is simply because the dialogue there is exceptionally light; in fact, all the dialogue is present on The Athenian Leader page, so you can see what I'm talking about. If I recall correctly, one of them didn't even have dialogue. I had reached out to Sol Pacificus who supported this.

On the other hand, the quests relating to Welcome to Athens all have substantial dialogue, which would make Welcome to Athens a very lengthy page if it were all combined. Raylan13<staff/> (talk) 18:13, October 16, 2018 (UTC)

Ah that explains a lot. I do think we should handle one of the two methods for all pages, not do one page in the first form and the other pages in the second. What do you (and the others) think? Kennyannydenny (talk) 18:41, October 16, 2018 (UTC)

If Sol thinks they should be consistent, I'm fine with that. Despite the lack of information for the support quests for The Athenian Leader, I'd prefer to go with having an individual page for each of them if there's a choice to be had. Better to have a handful with a small amount of info rather than have multiple enormous pages. Raylan13<staff/> (talk) 20:21, October 16, 2018 (UTC)

Totally agree. I'll wait a day or two to see what the others think. Kennyannydenny (talk) 20:31, October 16, 2018 (UTC)

For what it's worth, we do have a number of very small memory pages (say, Assassination contracts in AC2), so going that way (more lighter memory articles rather than heavier but less) gets my vote.

What ultimately (imo) decides this is this: do those 'little memories' have a title of their own? Sadelyrate (siniath) 20:39, October 16, 2018 (UTC)

Yes. All those quests have their own title and description, quest markers, rewards, objectives, etc. They're just marked as "Support Quest". Maybe they deserve their own page and we would simply use support quest as the type on our pages too. Kennyannydenny (talk) 20:43, October 16, 2018 (UTC)

I still have not started on the game, so I wasn't able to nor would be able to even now offer the best opinion on this. However, if these mini-quests do indeed have names (even if the names are as generic as "Support Quest") and are organized in the game just like other quests, then no matter how short they are, they would merit their own pages to be consistent with our organization. I sorry if it sounds like I'm vacillating; again, I don't have a clear perspective on this. Perhaps I can watch a YouTube video on these particular mini-quests to see what you guys are really talking about. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 15:59, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

Ok I went ahead and made articles for the support quests. I've marked the quests as support quest by type in the infoboxes. I think that's the best solution. Kennyannydenny (talk) 21:23, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

RE:Prince of Persia – Source for Description

Normally for memory articles such as this, it is unnecessary to add a citation for the "Reference" section because the entire page pertains to one game, and it is not a main article. However, in this case, I had to add a citation supporting the statement that Prince of Persia is a spiritual predecessor of Assassin's Creed. This meant that the "Reference" section now became a list of citations where, if I did not also cite the rest of the page to Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, the page would essentially fail to refer to that game as a source. This was only added to the "Description" section because that is the only section in the body right now. "Introduction" sections are not supposed to have citations. Me citing it to Assassin's Creed: Origins instead is a typographical error, and I thank you for catching that mistake. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 17:24, October 27, 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation & primary topic

Hello Kenny, I am happy to see you taking initiative by moving the page Adrestia to Adrestia (ship), so that we can disambiguate from Adrestia (deity), but there is actually a rule about primary topics when it comes to disambiguations. This is covered in the Manual of Style. Essentially, when one of the pages is much more likely to be the one that our audience would be searching for when they enter a query because it is far more significant to the series, the subject of that page is called the primary topic. When a page is the primary topic for a name, it should not be a disambiguation page, but rather that name should directly lead to it. Its title should not be accompanied with a parenthetical disambiguation. Instead, there should be a disambiguation page titled with "(disambiguation)".

I know this is all very confusing, but here is an example with Adrestia. Since the goddess with that same name is not really significant to the series at all, never having made an appearance, and is only the namesake of the ship, it should not be treated on the same level of significance as Adrestia by having both equally disambiguated. Instead, the disambiguation page should be titled "Adrestia (disambiguation)". I will correct this now.

Once again, don't worry too much about this mistake; I am proud of you for taking the initiative! :) And let me know if you still find this confusing after reading this and the Manual of Style. 16:49, October 30, 2018 (UTC)

Hey Sol, I think I know what you're talking about. As I remember correctly, the English Wikipedia also did that with a lot of cases. On the Dutch wikipedia we call them "Amsterdam constructies" as Amsterdam is one such case. Everyone is looking for the city not the municipality. Didn't know we also handle that here, sorry. Wil try to remember that in the future. I'm not that much of a fan of those situations as, who am I to judge which topic people want to see more, but I can see this one is a clear case. What of the horse versus the god?: Phobos. Kennyannydenny (talk) 16:54, October 30, 2018 (UTC)

Another question, do we want an article about Greek mythology like I made about the Egyptian mythology? I've been noting in a notepad which gods are mentioned in the game so far, trying to keep track of things. But I've also seen things that aren't gods like Helen of Troy etc. being mentioned. Maybe such an artile is worth it? We could make it in my personal namespace first if that's better, everyone will be free to edit/help me and then we don't have to stick a revamp banner on it afterwards ;) Kennyannydenny (talk) 16:56, October 30, 2018 (UTC)

as someone made the page Twelve Olympians, and started a list of other 'important deities'. I think it's best to keep such things on one article about the mythology, or at least keep the other deities of that page, as that one is specifically about the 12 major gods. Kennyannydenny (talk) 16:59, October 30, 2018 (UTC)

Spoilerhd date

Hi Kenny. When creating articles for Legacy of the First Blade-related materials, can you ensure the {{Spoilerhd}} date is updated - it needs to be "4 March 2019" now (three months after release). Thanks. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 14:44, December 4, 2018 (UTC)

Yes, sorry. I've fixed them all :) Kennyannydenny (talk) 14:46, December 4, 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 14:49, December 4, 2018 (UTC)

FoA weapon articles

Hi Kenny. I've noticed that you've been creating a number of new weapon and armour articles for Fate of Atlantis. Might I suggest you review my revised wording here and implement it into any articles you create going forward. In-game, Elysium is a simulation rather than a "real-world" location so we cannot say with certainty that these weapons are armours were actually made by the Isu, and are not just a byproduct of Aletheia's simulation. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 10:27, April 24, 2019 (UTC)

Yup, I saw your changes and immediately done that too with the Isu Vanguard Helmet I just created. Was indeed planning on doing that with all from now on. I sometimes forget it's indeed just a simulation by Aletheia. I was just thinking, maybe we shouldn't mark characters like Aegea and Iphigenia as dead. Yes Kassandra kills them in the simulation, but it's just a simulation. So for what it's worth, maybe Iphigenia is still alive in the real Elysium. Kennyannydenny (talk) 10:30, April 24, 2019 (UTC)

Formatting of equipment pages

Helo Kennyannydenny, I have created a guide detailing common issues I've been finding in our newest equipment pages. Please take a look when you have the time! Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 20:30, April 29, 2019 (UTC)

Correcting rather than deleting poor edits

Hello Kenny, regarding your reversion to the article Popular, the user whose edit you undid expressed some confusion about it. Ideally, when dealing with poor edits, it is actually better to reformat or make corrections to them, such as incorporating the material into the article in a different way or in a different section, rather than delete them entirely. I understand that sometimes we're in a hurry and don't feel like we have the time to do so though but also don't want to just leave the poor edit hanging, so deleting seems like a quicker solution; I experience this dilemma sometimes too. Anyway, I just thought I'd give you a heads-up! It's not a big deal really! Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 21:11, August 21, 2019 (UTC)

No probs, thanks for letting me know. Normally I'd explain it on the user's talk page but I was actually in a real rush, didn't have any time to type out such things. I just saw that passing yesterday and only had a minute to undo it before I had to posted my article and had to go. Kennyannydenny (talk) 08:26, August 22, 2019 (UTC)

On Database categories

Hi Kenny.

I saw that you moved two database letters from "Database: Items" to "Database: Documents". While they are technically documents, these categories are meant to show which tab in the game database they are found in. In this case, both of them are inside the items tab for the Jack the Ripper DLC, so I moved them back.

Keep up the good work, Soranin (talk) 15:38, April 22, 2020 (UTC)

Oh right, sorry. Didn't think of that. Kennyannydenny (talk) 18:42, April 22, 2020 (UTC)

Okay, Thanks!

So I got the message. I'll change it back. Thanks. Batfan13 (talk) 16:55, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Batfan13

ACV memories

Hello Kennyannydenny,
Great job with starting all the ACV memory pages, it really helps. Just a note in case you happened to forget, you're missing the "Previous" and "Next" parameters in almost all your World memories. Now, maybe it's because we're still finding new side-quests not listed in Template:ACVMemories as we play the game, but every other [game]Memories template has side-quests by region/person follow one after the other, even if they technically could happen at any time in-game. – Darman (talk) 14:40, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

I haven't added previous and next parameters as all mystery memories are not related to each other. We might decide on an order, but I have no idea what order that should be and where to decide that on. I just encounter them whilst scouting the area. On what should we base the order? Alphabetical? We have no idea in what order people would explore the region, I for one often skip something near big towns to first do things in rural areas. Kennyannydenny (talk) 15:12, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

I really don't mind adding them, but then I'll have to know in which order they should be linked. Kennyannydenny (talk) 15:13, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

So far as I can tell looking at other Templates, quests given by specific people are sequential (eg. for Alkibiades, the order is "Handle with Care" > "Designated Rider" > "Rock Hard", etc.), while world quests found by exploring are arranged alphabetically (eg. Origins' Papyrus Puzzles are listed as "A Long Drink" > "Burning Bush" > "Dead or Alive", etc.) – Darman (talk) 15:30, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Ok so, since almost every mystery is from a unique questgiver (and not sequenced) they'll probably need to be ordered alphabetically. I'll do that. Kennyannydenny (talk) 15:33, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Just a minor addendum, side quests are only alphabetically sequential to their region. For example, the Rygjafylke quests don't lead into the Hordafylke, nor Cent into East Anglia, etc. Sorry for being unclear in my earlier messages. – Darman (talk) 17:15, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Oh ok, no probs. I'll keep that in mind! Kennyannydenny (talk) 17:28, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

All good! I'm just glad I/we caught that early, because looking at ACODMemories, I noticed that every single Ainigmata Ostraka is in haphazard order, and it's been 3yrs since ACOD's release. Yikes! – 17:40, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Oof, that's a long time being incorrect. Yeah this was an easy fix this way. Kennyannydenny (talk) 19:03, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Valhalla Notes

Hello!

Am I okay to contribute to User:Kennyannydenny/Valhalla_notes? I found some that were neither in the page or linked to a quest, so I thought it best to seek permission first.

Sertor V. (talk) 13:51, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Definitely! It's the place I document the notes I find whilst playing through the game. I haven't added any interwiki links yet, I thought that was best to do near the end when all notes are in to prevent duplicate links/work etc. But you're free to edit the page. Kennyannydenny (talk) 15:07, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Valhalla side activities pages

Hello Kenny, I just wanted to double-check that you do not have any further things to add to the this discussion you opened up on whether or not to remove a series of memory pages for Valhalla. Since you seemed to have only been outvoted 2:1, I thought I would take the courtesy to verify if you had any further suggestions, any lingering strong objections, or if you on the same page with Sora and Lacrosse even if you disagree. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 03:43, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

While I don't 100% agree, i'm fine with only making location (or animal/person) articles for the cairns, standing stones, flyting etc, instead of also memory pages. I don't mind rewriting the current pages into location pages, but if we'd rather remove these and create new ones for the locations, that's also fine by me.

If we do end up removing them, I must insist the same happens with similar Origins and Odyssey articles, like the Papyrus Puzzles and Ainigmata Ostraka, to keep everything consistent as discussed on that talk page (So removing pages for specific puzzles and ostraka like A Long Drink and A Finger Tip, not the pages about Papyrus Puzzles and Ainigmata Ostraka in general of course). Kennyannydenny (talk) 08:35, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

I do agree with you that if we should be consistent with Origins and Odyssey articles as well in how we organize these pages. Let's double-check with Lacrosse and the others to see if they're willing to implement this. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 20:47, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Western naming format is not international

"Wong is his last name, correcting to name order we use in the western world as this is an international wiki"

Kenny, the reasoning you provided for moving "Wong Jing Cherng" to "Jing Cherng Wong" in the move log was inappropriate. By your logic that this is an international wiki, that should mean we don't bias Western naming order. You implied that in a global community, Western norms and conventions must take precedence over all other cultures, and I shouldn't have to explain why that comes across as discriminatory. If we are an international wiki, then we should be giving equal and fair weight to every culture. Your reasoning also is not consistent with the naming policy, and it is hence why we have "Yang Yuhuan", "Li E", "Shao Jun", "Tokugawa Ieyasu", and "Oda Nobunaga" instead of "Yuhuan Yang", "E Li", "Jun Shao", "Ieyasu Tokugawa", and "Nobunaga Oda". In each of these cases, we have the surname coming first, not last. When was the last time you have heard the name Jun Shao instead of Shao Jun?

I have not moved "Jing Cherng Wong" back to "Wong Jing Cherng" because there is one exception to respecting a culture's naming order and that is the preference of the individual in question (and/or how the name appears in sources). If Jingcherng shows through the way he is credited in Assassin's Creed games, in ArtStation, and on LinkedIn that he prefers the format "Jing Cherng Wong", then by the principle of self-identity, we should favour that format.

So your call might have been a right one, just for the wrong reasons. But please do not suggest that non-Western naming order is wrong on our wiki ever again. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 20:45, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Wow dude, calm down! I think you're reading waaaaayy too much in my change. I'm not discriminating, and never say I am as I never do, and I don't ever like being called one. You're making a big bunch of wrong assumptions that trigger me as they're completely false.

First of all, I never said the non-Western naming order is wrong, second I don't bias towards western naming. I just thought that it's the *least* international as most countries don't use that naming order. Same as the Americans who more than often use their date formatting on most wiki's, even though they're the only ones worldwide using that date format, it wouldn't make sense for a wiki targetting a worldwide audience to suddenly change the dating format to that of the Americans, when 90% of the world can't relate. I was just thinking what was used most globally, so as to not discriminate towards anyone. I did also check his Artstation and he wrote it himself like I did, so I figured my change was fine.

Also, I have not played the Chronicles games, but, TIL, I always thought Jun was her last name and Shao her first. Kennyannydenny (talk) 21:19, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

I was perfectly calm, but even in spite of that, the comment you still made was still inappropriate enough that I had to let you know about it. I also did not accuse you of being discriminatory; I said that the message you wrote comes across as discriminatory, meaning I am judging the message, not you. Unfortunately, I actually think your response reinforces why it was problematic. People can unintentionally make prejudiced remarks without being overall prejudiced because they did not understand the underlying message they're making.

But most importantly, your reply does continue to betray a Western-centric bias. First, you assume that because you live in the Western world and in a world where Western culture has more power that this dictates what is international. The international community is not monocultural or dominated all by one culture. Being a cosmopolitan wiki means being inclusive of all other cultures.

Second, you overstate how predominant the English naming convention is and also assume that a naming convention is characterized only in which order the given name or surname appears. Naming conventions around the world differ in many ways based on not just the order but also their elements.

Third, you fail to understand that in many East Asian languages, the name order isn't just a matter of format; it's a matter of grammar. In Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, and Korean, it is impossible to put the surname last without being grammatically wrong. It just so happens that when romanized into the English language, these languages are flexible enough to permit the re-ordering in English (but not in their own languages)—although it is still awkward doing so. Hence, if you had argued that we should change the order of East Asian names based on English because we are an English wiki, even that would have been a better point (though still not entirely right). Arguing that we should change the order because of "international norm" alone is fallacious since name orders and elements are built into the grammar of languages.

Third, your analogy to the date format is also incorrect. We don't use the European date format because it is the "most international" or widespread. We use it because we have more European audiences, and in regards to date format, we do have to choose one standard. It is an interesting analogy to bring up though since we also had editors arguing that we should use American English over British English under the misconception that American English is in majority usage around the world. The problem is that gauging which format or style is more widespread depends on whether we are counting by number of countries, population, or the cultural and political influence of the style. Determining an international standard in this way when it has not been decided upon by some international organization is arbitrary and does not factor in our formatting standards.

All in all, I think you are using the word 'international' incorrectly. You seem to use it to suggest some international standard, akin to International System of Units, that does not exist, neither de jure nor de facto, when it comes to name order or date formats. When I say 'international', I am referring to cosmopolitanism, meaning inclusivity and respectfulness to all cultures around the world regardless of certain cultures having hegemony over others. Even if you would like to insist you do not have any bias, you're evidently and erroneously making arguments about what is most 'international' based on an anglocentric bubble. You act like a worldwide audience = Anglo-American standard, when the worldwide demographic is extremely diverse. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 23:04, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

As I said earlier, you're reading waaaaaayyy too much in my original comment. Again, you make a bunch of assumptions, you act to know me even though you don't know anything about me. You say you're 'inclusive', but on the other hand you're thinking in boxes and putting me into one, based on a wrong interpretation of the things I said. Everyone on this planet is biased in some way, even if it's just towards family, their next door neighbour or their closest friends. We're humans, nobody is perfect. But I am in no way biased in the way you make me sound. It is a simple as it is, this Wiki is based off of the English language, no matter which culture. I wouldn't be changing anything to Dutch standards on this wiki, even though ours are different from English-based countries, as this is simply the English AC wiki, and not the Dutch AC wiki.

As you may be well aware from my user page in the past (Fandom has recently removed locations from the top of user pages but it has shown there for years and years on end that I live in The Netherlands), i'm Dutch. English is not my mother tongue nor did it become a standard language for me. if I was biased towards a language it would have been Dutch, not English. I don't live in "an anglocentric bubble". If I would live in any, it would be a Dutch bubble. The only reason I use English is because most countries woldwide (and definitely the bigger English-based countries) assume all Dutch people speak English, and we as a nation have learned to adapt to cater to others. Many haven't even heard of us in the first place, thinking Europe is one big country (I have friends in other European countries, America, Japan, etc and most people don't know we exist, think we're one country or think the country is called 'Holland', which is all incorrect, so i'm talking from experience, not making things up). They don't know the Dutch language and don't even try bothering with it, not even our western neigbours England, or our southern neighbours France. Heck, even the half of Belgium that speaks English doesn't care one bit about the Dutch language, even though it's a multi-languaged country (French and Dutch). As I said earlier, you can call me biased towards the Dutch language, but not English.

I'm here to have a fun time making this wiki more complete with information, i'm not looking for a political minefield. "Asian names based on English because we are an English wiki" It crossed my mind, but that is in my opinion a pretty obvious statement, I didn't feel the need to mention that before this message. "You act like a worldwide audience = Anglo-American standard", no I don't. You interpret my comments as that. I don't act like it, nor do I feel like that. I was just looking for a way to be as inclusive as possible for everyone worldwide, and I interpretet your comment like I try to do the opposite, which is just wrong.

I disapprove how an admin of this wiki, whom should be a rolemodel and assume good faith, immediately jumps the gun, judging me based on his/her wrong interpretation of one small sentence. Assuming good faith would have been warranted as I absolutely did not mean any harm by any means, I tried to do the exact opposite and be as inclusive as possible, changing the name to the style the person himself actually uses on his Artstation.

As I said, i'm not looking for a political minefield. It was just a simple small change, with good faith dripping off of it. My edit wasn't even bad. You just thought my reasoning for the edit was bad, even though it was your interpretation of my reasoning, and a faulty one at that. I really don't mind which of the two naming styles we use here on the Wiki, it's not like such small pages have about developers have high traffic numbers, nor would most care if it was named one or the other way.

As I said earlier, assume good faith. I did not intent anything and I already regret making that correct edit, I know for sure i'm not touching developer pages ever again. I'm not mad, i'm just disappointed. I always thought more of this Wiki and it's staff members. This is the last i'll say about the matter. Kennyannydenny (talk) 09:25, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

You are right that I failed to assume good faith here with you, and that I also should not have assumed your background without looking at your profile. I don't know why I made either of these two errors since in the past, I've constantly reminded others to be mindful of not violating these two principles, and yet here I have committed them myself. For that, I can only apologize to you.

I think I can only explain the context that led to my interpretation. In the communities I interact with in real-life, there is a lot of discussion and grievances against linguistic imperialism. Arguments made in favour of majority-speaking languages or standards like English, Spanish, or Mandarin are widespread but often are made at the expense of minority languages or not even languages which are prominent but lack the same political status. Case in point, Cantonese, my native language, is the most widely spoken Chinese language in many places outside China, yet we have recently seen a wave of Cantonese programs at colleges being shutdown. This is not even to begin with other even lesser known Chinese languages struggling for survival. Every Chinese language other than Mandarin tends to be denigrated, and there is a forceful nationalistic movement to erase all of them under arguments of convenience and unity, disregarding the benefits of multilingualism.

A lot of my friends are language activists who are very empathetic towards how minority languages get marginalized, not just Chinese ones. They could be indigenous languages of the Americas; they could be languages of India other than Hindi; they could be Coptic; they could be Occitan, Basque, and Catalan. For these colleagues of mine, statements made promoting mainstream languages on the basis of their international prominence or status can be pretty offensive and triggering.

So when you made a statement for even just Western name order as something more "international", it was easy to just connect that to the same kind of message other people often make imposing the most mainstream or most prominent language or standards onto those which tend to be sidelined and marginalized. I would still argue that that is effectively what it amounts to even if that was not intentional. It doesn't take a huge leap of assumptions to recognize that treating Western standards as necessarily the international norm is problematic for non-Western culture and peoples.

I won't say that initially, when I made the message, I was that offended, angry, nor was I judging your character. (It is a habit of mine to compose long messages). As I said, I was judging the position itself, and my opinion was that that was just the kind of message that people can accidentally make, not knowing the implied meaning, even if they themselves are not bigoted or discriminatory as a person. It also wasn't correct to the policies of our wiki, so I thought I was actually fulfilling my duties to inform you of that as well.

The thing is that 'discrimination' is an act of differentiating based on favouring some trait over another, so when you select one culture's way over all others, it would by definition be discrimination, even if a totally innocent one. I chose the phrase 'comes across as discriminatory' very carefully for that reason. I didn't say that your statement was racist, bigoted, or prejudiced. By letting you know that the statement comes across as discriminatory, I also was taking a further step back to show that I was not making an absolute claim that it is discriminatory but that we should be considerate that it can give that impression.

But I confess that it was after your first reply, I did fall off into the "assume bad faith" territory. I thought that you were doubling-down without giving any room to why your position can marginalize other non-Western peoples even though i recognize now that is not at all what you intended. I was also shocked that you didn't know how essential the [surname]–[give name] name order is in East Asian names because even in the parts of the U.S. and Canada I've lived in, it is common knowledge and that ignorance did seem telling to me. I think that because you didn't understand that, that factored into why you thought Western name order was more international, which really just isn't factually correct.

So I will ask that you try to separate feelings about your character being judged, which I am sure now did not intend any discrimination, and your position being judged. Because I actually do still believe that your position was problematic, but I understand now that your character is not. For that, I do owe you an apology, and I do apologize for any statements I made about your character because my subsequent reply did cross lines in assuming that you came from an "Anglo-American bubble". There really was no excuse for me not to have checked your profile, and I realize that I did not moderate myself well enough, especially after your first reply.Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 19:01, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Ok, so in my last message I said that was the last I was going to say about this. But since you took your time to apologize and explain, i'll of course respond. First, I accept your apology. I always assumed good faith on your side and figured it was something you felt strongly about or anything along those lines. But I did feel attacked, maybe that was just my interpretation.

I want to apologize too. Being your average Dutch white male, I'm almost getting used to people telling me I discriminate, just because i'm that, a white male. People just assume I would be discriminating. Not because of my actions, but just because I'm lumped in with the 'bad guys' in their views. So when someone says what I said might have seem discriminative, I get a bit of an overreaction, as it's the one thing I'm trying to prevent on a daily basis. I always, always to try to be inclusive to each and everyone on this earth, no matter what culture, or religion or whatever other uniqueness we have. It hurts my feelings to hear such things when I do everything possible to prevent being discriminating. I apologize that this has let to more aggressiveness in my messages than I ever intended.

Thank you very much for the explanation why you reacted the way you did. I can never truly understand how it feels if someone tries to muffle away your language or culture (as it's not happening with mine), but I can of course understand it's horrible and not something that should ever happen. I'm really sorry to hear something like that happens in 2021, we still have a long way to go as the human species.

That said. You're not a bad guy, neither am I. I'll certainly keep this in mind in case I encounter any other Asian names (or similar cases), and will use a different, and more correct reasoning if it is warranted. I actually half-assed that edit summary because I had to go immediately after, not really explaining what I actually ment. I'll be thoughtful about that in the future too, preventing another such situation. Kennyannydenny (talk) 19:45, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

In the activist circles I'm part of, I do privately notice a lot of colleagues being too hot-headed sometimes. Everywhere there is an activist community, there's inevitably a lot of infighting because people impulsively jump to the worst conclusions about a single statement, single action, or single incident. Sometimes, the outrage is warranted, but other times, I do feel distressed when I notice that there are nuances that people haven't considered, or even that if someone made a mistake, it's honestly because they just didn't understand the full context and not because they're an evil person. You're probably familiar with the term 'cancel culture'. The far-left glorifies it as a mechanism to hold abusive people accountable. The far-right decries it, but often only as an excuse not to be responsible for their own behaviour. While I do agree with public outcry being used to hold people in power accountable, I do think that 'cancel culture' as a phenomenon can at times be problematic because I've seen (and experienced firsthand) how so many good friends and allies get targeted and 'lynched' over the slightest disagreement because of the failure to assume good faith as you alluded to. It creates a lot of toxic infighting, where the circle of tolerable allies collapses over and over again, shrinking until everyone is purged and one has no allies left. There's also often a failure to patiently recognize that an individual might express problematic views, but their heart at the core is still good; it's just that they haven't had access to all the perspectives about a situation and that is part of everyone's learning experience.

So I see that how you felt about my message is probably how I occasionally feel about my own colleagues' reactions to other colleagues. And I am also reflecting on to what extent I made the same mistake as those colleagues just now. It was good of you to remind me that even as an administrator, I can err in the same ways I warn others about. I am grateful that you accept my apology because I definitely don't wish to see you leave our wiki since you are one of our valued contributors. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 20:14, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

RIver Raid locations

Hey great job on this. Just a heads up a few of these are real places with corresponding Wikipedia articles and most of them are not located in England which you have been defaulting to burn Wales. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 12:36, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh I actually didn't know. I searched for the first three I made and couldn't find any info on it so thought they did not exist. Thanks for the tip! Kennyannydenny (talk) 13:12, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Well a good number are seemingly made up (or at least I also can’t find them) but if the name is unique rather than personal name plus farm or something good chances it’s real. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 13:43, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Symbols for the standing stones notes

Hey Kenny!

So I just saw you uploaded a image for the Medeuuage Megaliths note and I wanted to let you know we have all the standing stones symbols already uploaded. You can check them here. :D - Soranin (talk) 17:21, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Oh I didn't know. Thanks for the information! Kennyannydenny (talk) 11:37, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Actually, those images are not correctly showing on the wiki, as the wiki itself uses a black background in the dark theme (something I use all day, but the standard setting is to also use the dark theme during the evenings etc, so a lot of people should encounter this problem). Those images are completely made of black lines themselves, with a transparent background. So if I look at the list "Inscribings", I just see black fields with a location beneath it. No symbol. Might be worth making those backgrounds non-transparent and a light color, or otherwise people using the Dark Theme are not gonna see any actual symbols. Kennyannydenny (talk) 12:26, 21 November 2021 (UTC)