User talk:Soranin

Welcome to the Order, Soranin!

Welcome to the Assassin's Creed Wiki! We hope you enjoy your stay, and we look forward to working with you!

Have you something to say?

You can always ask our beloved administrators! Our local staff members can always lend a hand! You can also visit the wiki's community portal! We also have the Discord if you're ever in the mood for a chat! There is also our forums, where all users can help you out. You can also check out the blogs, where you and other contributors can voice out your opinion.

We seek unity, stability and order.

Not sure where to start? You can always help out by sharing what you know on some of our stubs. Got some useful pictures? Share them with us on these articles. Got a useful concept for an article? Why not help out in some articles in need of a revamp? Always remember to sign your messages on talk pages with four tildes (~~~~) to avoid any confusion between users. You can also refer to the wiki's help pages if you're ever in doubt. Please remember to read our wiki policies to avoid gaining any unnecessary attention.

We wish you safety and peace on your future endeavors. Happy Editing!

Feel free to contact me on my talkpage if you need anything. Master Sima Yi (talk) 21:04, December 6, 2014 (UTC)

Italy Database

Hi Soranin,
Great job on the Database charts. Just a minor correction here: in the Locations tab for the ACII table, you linked to "Database: Castel Sant’Angelo" instead of "Database: Castel Sant'Angelo". The difference in apostrophe style (see the source coding) changes the page title. Also, the former page is a duplicate.
--Darman (talk) 00:04, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

Never mind, Nesty got it. Again, great job on the tables. --Darman (talk) 13:50, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

Shanties

Hey Soranin,
I see you listed the sea shanties from Rogue missing their lyric transcriptions. Having found the required sheets, do you mind if I were to write them up, or is it a "personal project" of yours?
Hope to see you around again, --Darman (talk) 19:20, October 23, 2016 (UTC)

Hey Darman,

I'll start with sorry for not seeing this message for more than 3 years. Life got real hectic real quick for me. On a more positive note, I have them all transcribed. Little late to the party but I'm hoping it's the thought the counts.

Hope to be around for longer this time, Soranin (talk) 21:51, April 20, 2020 (UTC)

Hello again!
Wow, what a throwback. Haha, don't worry about missing my message. I figured that if you hadn't seen it, I wouldn't bother you if you'd chosen to simply drop out once you were done with your pages of interest. It would've been well within your right; we all have limits. Honestly, it's good you added the songs now, as I have since wiped my Rogue save file to start clean, and I'm busy with Odyssey anyways. Thanks for the update, though, even if late, and hope to see you around. – Darman (talk) 01:05, April 21, 2020 (UTC)

Proto-Assassins & Proto-Templars

Hey, I just opened up a discussion on our usage of the terms "proto-Assassin" and "proto-Templar". It's a long read, but I think is very important for us to clear this up because our wiki has been rather inconsistent about it, and we could cause some serious problems with it down the line. If you had the time, could you offer your input on it? Thanks. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 00:49, May 4, 2020 (UTC)

Will do, Sol! - Soranin (talk) 00:52, May 4, 2020 (UTC)

Re: An Encyclopaedic Tale blog post

Bwahaha! A wonderful read! Quite a rousing tale for such a Sisyphean struggle. I knew there were at least some socks, but 82?! I'm flattered that you felt my edit skirmish was important enough in the larger battle to include in your story. Given Batalex 34's history of refusing to admit defeat and making ever more socks, will the blog post be updated as new expected casualties continue to mount? – Darman (talk) 03:20, May 10, 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the review! Yeah, I keep updating it, it amuses me greatly. :) - Soranin (talk) 13:41, May 10, 2020 (UTC)

I don't know if you're still updating the blog, but I thought I'd tell you there have been a few more "casualties" in the last 2wks (see the Block Log). Among the dead are Thor28654, CaptainSpain, and Alex3478, all identically obsessed with Easter eggs. Some of the others may count, but I don't know their edit habits well enough. (Wasn't one fixated on Layla?) – Darman (talk) 03:45, June 9, 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I've been tracking them, but life is kinda getting in the way of me updating the tale. As soon as I can, I'll write more of our great saga xD - Soranin (talk) 18:07, June 9, 2020 (UTC)

Brazilian religion

I saw your edit to the infobox of Brazil, and actually, I had meant for the Religion field to indicate the presence of a religion not its status by the government. I had feared that it might be misinterpreted as referring to the state or official religion though. I've thought about how it might be reworded, such as "common religions", but the way the infobox is automatically formatted causes the word to be awkwardly cut-off when it is that long. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 05:30, May 10, 2020 (UTC)

Ahhhh. Well, I'm sorry to have confirmed your fears of misinterpretation. Hmm. Is "main religions" also too big? - Soranin (talk) 13:40, May 10, 2020 (UTC)

AC: Rebellion bios

Here you go. I think that's all, atm, but not 100% certain. Just tossed them into a sandbox to have them up and available. Sadelyrate (siniath) 10:06, June 25, 2020 (UTC)

I had a thought: If both the initial and latest bio for María are in different tabs on the same page, why not do the same and merge the bios for male/female Eivor? They're basically identical save for appropriate pronoun changes and a minor rewording of the third paragraph. – Darman (talk) 17:30, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

I would argue it's not the same, since Rebellion has them as separate entities like Alexios and Kassandra who also have basically the same bio. Besides, if we merge we can't really tag one of them as non-canon, due to the nature of the template. :/ - Soranin (talk) 02:56, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Oh right, the non-canon issue. I forgot, thanks. Never mind then. – Darman (talk) 17:15, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Great job updating the database table, looks much better than a plain chart of words! I just finished adding the appropriate infobox templates to all 95(!!) new character images. – Darman (talk) 05:05, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Love you <3 - Soranin (talk) 18:00, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

AC Rebellion Weapons/Armor

Just thought I'd let you know in case you missed it, the plan for Rebellion weapons and armor with different tiers (Master, Fine, etc) is to lump them together in small-scale versions of the generic weapons pages like "Sword". See "Poignard" and the "Ritualistic Xiphos" for examples. – Darman (talk) 03:05, September 21, 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing up that sandbox edit. I didn't know you had put out an open offer to everyone for help, as I haven't joined the Discord (just too much to keep tabs of), so I thought Blinx347's edit, however well-intentioned, was overstepping. Sorry for the confusion. – Darman (talk) 14:00, October 11, 2020 (UTC)

No problem! As I said, it's good knowing you got my back. - Soranin (talk) 14:12, October 11, 2020 (UTC)

I know you asked the community for help with the gear pgs, but just watching your activity over the past few days, you're doing damn well by yourself! – Darman (talk) 00:20, October 15, 2020 (UTC)

OOU writing

I wasn't sure yesterday if I should point this out, but many or even most of the new pages you've created use OOU language that highly implies gameplay. For example, this sentence comes up a lot: "With sufficient funds and resources, users could upgrade the [equipment], increasing its usability while also displaying finer craftsmanship." Even though we might imagine that the sentence isn't false from a realistic and lore-based standpoint because after all, Spanish Assassins could upgrade that piece of equipment to improve it, the way it is phrased doesn't sound very natural outside of a gameplay perspective. Since I know you're trying your best and your forte in tables, and that you mean to leave the writing up to other users, I don't wish to hammer on this and give you additional stress. It's good that you have provided us with sentences which we could work with, but it's just that I will also have to go through every one of these pages and correct that wording, and it might reduce our labour if you discovered a way to word it in a less gameplay-like way in advance? Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 16:18, October 13, 2020 (UTC)

Not sure but he might be writing from the perspective of someone IU playing the Abstergo Entertainment product. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 16:23, October 13, 2020 (UTC)

That's an interesting possibility though it would open up a whole bag of other complications we'd have to consider or look over. We must also wonder if it is better to describe these items from the perspective of a consumer of the Abstergo Entertainment product or from the actual perspective of the Spanish Assassin. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 16:28, October 13, 2020 (UTC)

Forgot to add another point. You also always use the word 'craft'. In real-life, this isn't typically the best verb to use across all things one makes, even if it can all be generalized as 'crafting'. For example, I think we typically say we weave an article of clothing or we forge a suit of armor. I'm not sure about pouches, bags, belts, and the like, but what I'm trying to say is that a strict adherence to a formula tends to produce the gameplay language that our wiki strives to avoid. Writing from an in-universe perspective means situating oneself outside of that gameplay and figuring out how best to phrase our descriptions in a way that would fit that subject in a realistic setting. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 16:25, October 13, 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, wanted to add one other comment because I don't want to make Sora have to agonize over precise wording in the future either. I understand that for the sake of efficiency, it was also easier to just set an exact wording template and use that for all these new pages, especially since Sora's focus was on laying the grounds for the pages and the tables. I guess it is also more efficient for me to then pick up after him and revise all the pages one by one. So, just take these as notes for future reference to be mindful of if you can. :P Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 16:44, October 13, 2020 (UTC)

That particular wording wasn't mine to be honest. It came from one of Darman's edits to one of the early pages I did. I adopted it because I thought it was better than the single line descriptions I'd been using prior to it. I can just go back to my single line descriptions if that's easier to fix. (it goes like "The BLANK was a BLANK used by the Spanish Assassins in the 15th century.") - Soranin (talk) 17:22, October 13, 2020 (UTC)

Hello, yes, I wrote the excerpt that's now across a number of pages. I'd tried to write it from a broad in-universe view without being like a walkthrough, but looking back, my descriptions sound too neutral. Sorry for having it be the reason we have to rewrite so much. – Darman (talk) 17:40, October 13, 2020 (UTC)

Your only fault was making it so good I decided to adopt it, Darman :P - Soranin (talk) 18:35, October 13, 2020 (UTC)

Tabbers vs tab view

I did a "preview" edit of Noob's personal files, and so far as I can tell, <tabview> still functions under the new UCP format, even when looking through the page history. I know you spent time copy/pasting the text into <tabber>, but if tabview doesn't seem to be corrupted by the UCP move, can I revert it to how it was before? Or will it be wiped in a later update? – Darman (talk) 22:40, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

They are gonna discontinue it later, sadly. The direct quote from them is "Under Fandom's UCP platform, use of TabView will be limited as Fandom intends to discontinue the extension." - Soranin (talk) 23:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Ugh. I hate this new system, it looks all janky and is incredibly unintuitive after years of being accustomed to the legacy format. Why ever did they change it? I know they said it was for security or somesuch in their blog post, but couldn't they update that without compromising visual layout? I doubt we'll get it back unless there's significant outcry, because that same blog post also said they'd only revert if there was a code problem implementing it. Speaking of UCP, I've immediately found two issues while browsing.

1. Do we really need [Category:Abstergo Entertainment files] if tabview will be rendered moot in imminent future?
2. Every use of {{WP-REAL}} invisible. It's in the page code, but you can't click it. Regular WP links in page are fine, but not that one.

I'd usually ask if you/Staff had any ideas what we could do, but it's still too early to know as literally every user is forced to adapt to this on the run. – Darman (talk) 00:25, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Tell me about it! Lacrosse even joked "ah, so fandom owned by Ubisoft confirmed!" My only saving grace is I've been using the source they hide in user preferences and that's basically the same as the source mode we had yesterday. So, on the issues:

1. Probably not, but with everything breaking today I hadn't had the time to propose deletion
2. Lacrosse noticed that too, I have a fix ready in my code sandbox, I'm just waiting for DarkFeather to merge it. What happened was we use "position:absolute" for that template. This update makes it render beneath the column of "recent activity".

The only good thing about this update was that it was today and not on November 10th. Could you imagine? - Soranin (talk) 00:41, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Haha! Sadly, I'd grown quite accustomed to the Visual Editor. I can still do source, but it feels different. I'll mark the Abstergo files pages and category for deletion, then. Also, I notice that we have some new category, "[Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls]", and that link dropdowns in the new Visual don't show the full titles available. Like, typing "[Category:Abstergo Entertainment]" doesn't show the "employees" or "files" end bits, as in literally "Category:Absergo Ent...files". In any case, yeah, having this in Nov. would've been worse! Better for us to get somewhat used to it in the 2wks before than have disaster upon release. – Darman (talk) 00:55, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

I've noticed that new category, it's related to Navbox subgroup template, but I haven't been able to figure out why it happens yet. At least, since it's template based - fix the template and everything will fall into its place. Or so I hope.

The galleries being wonky though, that I can't fix :/ UCP bug that they never managed to fix. But since that's on them, I'm gonna focus on things I can do :) - Soranin (talk) 01:12, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

AHA! Managed to fix the category problem. The cat page still shows a bunch of pages but the pages themselves don't have it anymore. - Soranin (talk) 01:19, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Galleries were skewed? All pgs I've seen so far with them seemed OK. Maybe it's a rolling update, hasn't fully kicked in for all pgs. Well, we do what we can. It's how volunteer editors work, anyway! – Darman (talk) 01:25, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Eivor

still waiting for response.FFMaverick01 (talk) 14:41, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Been answered already. - 14:43, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Evidence for the Order of the Ancients in Assassin's Creed: Valhalla

Here's proof from the guides that shows info on all members of the Order in each timestamp. https://youtu.be/awEBOLzCzSI
https://youtu.be/DTWZNkm4YT4
https://youtu.be/pJInCFmMcIs
https://youtu.be/hM_aWGZcrbs
https://youtu.be/p9u23QMrasM
– Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 23:30, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

That may be true, and I'm not arguing it's not but this is not an argument against the facts that (1) if they already have a proper name (which they do), then the ephitet / occupation they have are not needed and (2) the rankings should be listed on the individual pages, not on the main one. Those are the arguments me and the other editors have made. - Soranin (talk) 00:02, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Why do you say there should only be listed in individual pages? Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 00:24, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

That section is only meant to be a simple list, this type of information would make the list too bulky and harder to read, so it's meant to go on the individual pages. - Soranin (talk) 01:04, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Don't you guys think what you're doing to this article seems a little too simple? Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 19:19, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Re: Hunting Wolves

Thanks for adding the lines. You're right, it doesn't always show. What I wrote was all I saw. What are these "game files" you speak of, and how do we access them? – Darman (talk) 19:30, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

No problem, I'm glad to help! So, on the game file stuff, this game has some people who datamine it. One of whom I am on good terms with on discord. If there's anything you need, tell me and I'll pass it on. - Soranin (talk) 20:29, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Cool! No, I'm not looking for anything specific, but thanks for offering. Just wondering if you know how it's done, solely out of interest's sake. Doubt I'd have time/patience currently to do it myself. Or have they not divulged their secrets? – Darman (talk) 20:50, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Hm, good question. Maybe he would divulge the secrets, but I never thought to ask how he does it. Maybe after I'm done with my current projects (in the wiki and irl) I'll ask him. Maybe we could even break open AC: Memories the same way. - Soranin (talk) 00:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Oof, yeah. Here's hoping. With the app no longer in service and the Wiki still having a handful of its memories unfinished, it's a glaring omission whenever I think of it. – Darman (talk) 02:20, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Achievements display

You wouldn't happen to know why users can't scroll through their old Wiki badges, would you? I assume it's a UCP code problem, but it could just as well be how this site in particular is formatted. Just thought I'd ask since you'd managed to find a solution to the "disappeared" Wikipedia icon in the corner a few months back. – Darman (talk) 01:35, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Never mind, issue seems to be resolved ~1yr later, as I can now click through my past badges. – Darman (talk) 21:55, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Epithets

If that's how you feel about epithets the I suggest you remove "the Cruel" from Kjotve. - Frontierchris 22:57, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Can you not do it yourself? - Soranin (talk) 23:14, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

You are a sneak

How dare you tell the Taboo Wiki that I only bring problems. While you believe that you are the masters of the world, ruining the lives of millions of users, there will be a moment when the revolution comes and we defeat you, you are the ones who cause problems. - Vigilate98 (talk) 12:13, 10 Jaunary 2020 (UTC)

[1] - Soranin (talk) 15:31, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Smoke bombs

I saw you added the page image for fear bombs (well done, btw), and I got thinking: Maybe this is just semantics, but what's the difference between the "Bomb" and "smoke bomb" pages? Because all this time, I've linked "smoke bomb" to the singular explosive whenever I've seen the weapon mentioned. Is it at the editor's discretion, or should we link them separately, as "[[Smoke screen bomb|smoke]] [[bomb]]"? – Darman (talk) 17:20, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

I think the bomb page is meant to also include the other bombs from revelations and the voltaic/fear bombs from syndicate or something, i'm not sure. I've always done the same but maybe we should ask Sol or something. - Soranin (talk) 17:29, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

ACReb icons

I was looking through your upload history and I saw that you've rendered the enemy character models that serve as header images for missions in The Mask of the Ibis, Kinslayer, For Democracy, etc. I know this is short notice since the Helix Event starts in a few hours, and you already have plenty on your plate with ACV, but would you be able to get the same images for The Ravens' Wound? If it helps, you've already done Hrolfr Kjotvesson and Kjotve, so only the icons for memories 1, 2, and 4 ("Taking the Eyes", "The Fury of the Northman", and "Hunting Wolves") are left. If you can't get them now, we could always try again when it cycles back around; it seems to be a regular one now. Thanks – Darman (talk) 03:00, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure I have them saved on my pc, just a matter of finding which folder they're in. I'll get back to you in just a bit. - Soranin (talk) 03:11, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Ah, found them! I'll upload them along with the next batch of images. - Soranin (talk) 03:19, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Great, thanks! I'll use them tomorrow or the day after in the "Gallery" section of a short Wolf Clan page draft. Working on another project atm, but I can at least start the page. – Darman (talk) 03:30, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Whos In Your Blood

Just saw you added images and short biographies from the Who's in Your Blood promo site to your sandbox. Good find! I never thought to search the (archived) page's source code. All I ever recall seeing was generic text that read "Based on your surname and ancestral geography, your genetic memories could be linked to the following individuals who helped shape the history of the world." Congrats! Now we finally have something to source from there. – Darman (talk) 01:10, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

I didn't think it would work but I thought I could at least check to see if there were any other images embedded, and I was surprised everything was just there in a block of code, so I tried CTRL+F and searched for Marie Curie. I'll add them to the page now, I'd love if you could help with adding links. - Soranin (talk) 01:16, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Database Assassin's Creed: Initiates

Hi Soranin, I have seen you have made database pages for Assassin's Creed: Initiates. Is there curently a way to play it? (Nachtblueten (talk) 21:08, 27 January 2021 (UTC))

Hello, Nachtblueten! Sadly, Initiates has been offline for years, I just happened to find an old forum thread that had the text and the images for some of the missing entries. - Soranin (talk) 21:12, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Just a heads up for your sandbox entries, but the Russian site "assassinscreed.su/forum" where we used to get text and images for ACI database seems to have been terminated. The last capture of the pics thread "Assassin's Creed Initiates" was in May, while wider discussion of entries in "Тайна acinitiates.com" has only first ~20ish pgs captured throughout ~10yrs total and then intermittent later entries. The 404 page says we can renew it for $8.14, but is it worth it? – Darman (talk) 16:45, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Nah, I managed to get all that we could from there thankfully. - Soranin (talk) 16:53, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

OK, good to hear. Wasn't actually going to spend money, just was asking theoretically, ie. would it really be worth it for so comparatively little info? – Darman (talk) 22:50, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Norse names

Quick question: I see that we've used the Norse spelling for some pages, like Jörmungandr, Æsir, Nornir, etc. Yet I also see that we've copied other names exactly as written in the English subtitles, like Angrboda vs Angrboða, or Gunlodr vs Gunnlöð (note both voiced dental fricative "eth"s in place of "d"), though I admit it's for the sake of convenience. But shouldn't we be consistent in using the native spellings, since ACOD did similar with nouns like Sokrates, Ithaka, etc? Thought I'd ask before I go changing as many spellings as I can find. – Darman (talk) 20:10, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

The thing with the norse spelling versus the odyssey one is that while I have a 'k' in my keyboard, i don't have any of those fancy letters. When I transcribed the gear, I had to have a wikipedia page open so I could steal the 'ö's. Most people won't really bother, specially when they don't know how to get these letters. The thing about consistency in this case, is that the lines in the memories, the descriptions of the gear (and their names), the database and the documents must remain as is, because they are direct transcriptions, so if we do change Gunlodr to Gunnlöð, we can't do that in her database entry, for example. So we can't be consistent if we use the original spelling, considering these caveats. We could, at most, be consistent in the body of articles. This is a tough one. - Soranin (talk) 21:04, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, because technically we're misspelling a bunch of things by copying Ubisoft's anglicization. Even looking at the ACV template, the names Vé and Víðarr need a few more CTRL+Shift+??? style keystrokes to type, they don't have English redirects yet, and I'd hazard a guess there may be a few more similar names in Odin's arc. Alternately, what if we used the display trick like [[Morrigan (Isu)|Mórrígan]]? To use your example, we'd keep the hyperlink as ".com/wiki/Gunlodr", but have the {{DISPLAYTITLE}} template, the "|name =" infobox parameter, and all in-page mentions as "Gunnlöð"? Even WP's page is a bit off, linking to Gunnlöð but the opening line reads "Gunnlǫð (also Gunnlöd) is a jötunn...". – Darman (talk) 22:15, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Hey Soranin, I don't know if you happened to miss my reply from a few days back, but do you have any thoughts on using wiki code to just display Norse names for pages where we've already linked the English form? Especially since the Urðr page was just made today and you've initiated discussion on Iðunn vs. Idun – Darman (talk) 17:35, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Oh, I missed it completely! So sorry! Yeah, I do feel like that using the display trick would be best so long as we also mention the anglicized version somewhere on that page too. - Soranin (talk) 18:28, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Not on the database entries or the quotes in the memories, though! Those are meant to be direct transcripts! - Soranin (talk) 19:39, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Anomalies

Thanks for writing the Anomaly dialogues! I know that I'd said that I would get to it in in one of my edit summaries, but (as usual) I got sidetracked by other ACV info/pages here and forgot, haha. Much appreciated! – Darman (talk) 16:15, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Corrections

What's not so significant about what I'm trying to add to the Order of the Ancients article? Those names I put in there were of those who were working with members of the Order. - Frontierchris 17:41, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

And what is their role in the story (or in history) compared to the others mentioned in the page? Negligible at best. - Soranin (talk) 23:33, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Well, Rikiwulf was a member of Kjotve the Cruel's army, Galinn was the one who betrayed Soma by leading Wigmond to her secret tunnel, and Oija was the blacksmith who assisted Frideswid by making tools of surgery for her.—unsigned comment by Frontierchris (talk · contr) 17:39, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Tanzania / Initiates Database Entry

Hello.

I noted your edits on Tanzania and Database: We Observe to Gather Knowledge. You removed the sections regarding David Livingstone and Henry Morton Stanley on the basis it was referencing a database quote that did not exist— or something along those lines.

Admittedly, I have found there to be an element of confusion as to the information and entries within Assassin's Creed: Initiates, not helped by the fact the original website is down and extant info is to an extent on third party websites.

I would like to disclose that I sourced the quote supposedly belonging to said database entry from this website: https://assassinscreedcenter.com/videojuegos/assassins-creed-initiates/c-tag/entre-las-lineas/

Many thanks, Sertor V. (talk) 03:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, the thing about that, that's not the database entry. That's the puzzle you need to solve to unlock it, it does not go in the database page. - Soranin (talk) 11:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Discover Your Legacy

Great job finding the transcripts for DYL! Must have been a real bugger, since the game has been pulled from Facebook for some while. How'd you do it? – Darman (talk) 19:40, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

I must admit, it wasn't that difficult! There were two people who uploaded all the videos to youtube, so it was just a matter of transcribing them! - Soranin (talk) 19:44, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Huh. I never would've thought they'd be on YouTube, but now you mention it, it makes sense and I'm not surprised. Still, congrats again! On the topic of dead games, any luck with finding info on AC Memories? Or have you switched gears for the time being to ACV content? – Darman (talk) 19:55, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Last time I attempted to crack Memories I hit a roadblock I'm still unsure how to deal with. So, for the time being I'm trying to focus on Valhalla and cleaning up what I can from the Wanted pages list. (That's even why I looked at DYL today, cause of the wanted page of San Juan, Puerto Rico). - Soranin (talk) 20:34, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

That's totally OK, roadblocks happen. Still, I wish you good luck when you resume trying to crack it. Meanwhile, just like you, I'm also trying to tackle too many things at once XD. – Darman (talk) 00:30, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

ACReb Most Wanted

Just a note before anyone / you gets to working on the Dogs of the Lord page, I thought I should point out something. See, Torquemada was of the Dominican Order, which was sometimes referred to by the Latin pun Domini canes, or "Dogs of the Lord", in reference to the belief that St. Dominic's pregnant mother "had a vision of a black and white dog with a torch in its mouth [...] set[ting] fire to the earth [with the Gospel]." (as per WP's page). However, ACReb separates the two. So far as I can tell, the determining factor seems to be whether one was a regular Dominican practitioner, or a Templar-backed Inquisitor like Gustavo Ramírez (See memory "Supply Switch") and the RNG'd Inquisitor in the memory "Dog of the Lord" (note the singular noun instead). And I think those two are the only mentions of the Dogs in the game, too. – Darman (talk) 02:00, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

They are also mentioned in one of the memories from Horacio's Retribution, I believe. Thank you for the help, but worry not, I'm not touching those pages. I hate doing pages for groups and militaries, so those are out of the question for me. I'm not sure what I'm gonna work on next, maybe some other crafting materials? Though maybe I'll pause on creating new pages and work a little more on the memory transcripts. - Soranin (talk) 14:22, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Just checked Horacio's Retribution, and you're right, the other Dogs were Pedrosa and Commandant Duran, who doesn't seem to have ties to the main Spanish army and so may be an Inquisitor trained in combat. Well, I could give a shot writing a draft page once I'm done this round (more to come) of clearing outdated infobox parameters. Luckily, it will be brief, at most only a few words more than my paragraph above. I'm still keeping tabs on your many ACV edits. – Darman (talk) 19:15, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

That last sentence was a bit ominous, but I feel ya. I know you have my back when it comes to linking and proofreading my stuff, and I'm always glad to see you editing stuff. Even made this dumb tumblr gif meme for you as a thanks. - Soranin (talk) 23:32, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Oops, I didn't mean for it to sound ominous. I'd written it in a more nonchalant, off-hand way, but tone doesn't always transfer through text. Aw, and thank you for the gif, you didn't have to! It doesn't link to the post it's attached to, though, like for example this gif. Unless you privately posted it to your blog intentionally? – Darman (talk) 01:10, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

You figured out my dastardly plot! I made a post with it and the text was "need to get the link for the gif, will delete in a bit", got the link and then deleted the post :P - Soranin (talk) 01:25, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

So I see. If your activity here is anything to judge by, is it safe to assume it's a bunch of AC? And if I may ask, what's your @? Though if you'd rather not say, that's alright. – Darman (talk) 00:30, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

That would not be a safe assumption, surprisingly. It's mostly horror related stuff and other things that amuse me. Though I think there might be a couple of AC posts, cause I do recall one person did AC characters in halloween costumes. My @ is gayhorrorgeek :D - Soranin (talk) 00:46, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

ACV outfits

I appreciate your work with all the ACV gear sets, but I think your images are a bit dark. I don't think it's my computer display, and I'm not sure it's the color of the "fabrics", because I've seen plenty of YT vids with clear colors. Only thing I can think of is that you had Eivor happen to stand in a slightly more shadowed area, even if in daytime. I hate to impose more work on you, but do you think you could retake the pictures and perhaps try increasing the "Exposure" in Photo Mode? – Darman (talk) 02:55, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

(whispers): they're not mine... my pc can't run the game... :c

Nstav took them for me a while ago as a favor. I'll ask him tomorrow if he wants to retake them for me. - Soranin (talk) 03:05, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Technically plagiarism

I thought it was probably best I let you know ahead of time that copying verbatim from database entries is technically plagiarism (and therefore not allowed). Unfortunately, I discovered a long time ago that even many of our AC2 location pages are plagiarized from the database entries. I am letting it slide in this case because I know you're trying really hard to cover all the redlinks that would otherwise lie dormant in perpetuity, and I cannot imagine you being able to handle this workload if you didn't keep on doing what you're doing. So, no worries about it. I am just letting you know for future reference after you have done clearing up all the redlinks because I don't want you to internalize the idea that this is normally okay since it's important for long-time editors to be acquainted with guidelines when they someday might have to help out newer users. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 09:22, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but even our ACS location pages are guilty of that at times 😬.

Thanks for letting it slide, it's really hard for me to try and cover the redlinks. I'm really not comfortable making pages, like, I'll make them because a lot of them have been left as redlinks for a long time (I found some from AC2!!!) but it's a big departure from my usual stuff (transcription and small edits). In a bigger fandom I would've left the page creation to others and just do my small stuff, but we don't have that many active editors for that strategy to work. The few we do have all have been focusing on the newer media, which is great but does let the older stuff fall by the wayside. Thanks for the attention and for correcting my mistakes on those pages (cause it turns out making a lot of them in a short amount of time does make them bleed together a bit :P) - Soranin (talk) 14:48, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for butting in, but if I may add, we're really in a bind here. I admit I'm torn between wanting to update ACV when/where I can, having done copy/paste quickfixes myself, and trying to fix old pages ripped from the Database, eg. Eight Tigers. Do we focus on old—verging on "ancient"—media, despite knowing players and even some game devs look to the site to update them on lore/game sequences, or do we continually shift (as best we can with few regulars here) to whatever newest media is released while letting said old pages languish in oblivion? – Darman (talk) 15:20, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

My basic plan has always been that I leave all the newest content to you guys while I take care of updating the "ancient" content in chronological order. I noticed that even the vast majority of our pages on AC1 to Revelations are extremely outdated. I remember starting upon this project with the article Tamir and only got that far; you can compare it with Garnier de Naplouse. Even "Tamir" was missing a lot of hidden info in AC1 on the character. Anyway, this was the ideal division of labour in my mind since you guys were already covering the newer content and most people would incline to writing about the new. I still haven't started on Valhalla either and have not been able to find the time. However, I got side-tracked by certain critical pages I need to rewrite outside of the chronological update plan, such as country pages, "Ezio Auditore da Firenze", the philosophy sections on the Assassins, and even the page Assassination target is supposed to be rewritten as a general page on the act of assassination. Then Dynasty came about, which is new content, but I realized that our wiki does have a niche in that because nowhere else can you can find accurate information on Dynasty in English so far. Because of this Dynasty has taken my foremost priority, but even that takes a lot of time for me. All the while, policy pages still need to be updated and there are many things on the agenda on policy reform that have not been settled.

To answer your question, yes we absolutely have to have people continually shifting to the newest media in order to stay relevant. These are the highest traffic pages, and the first thing that people notice. We should not let old pages "languish in oblivion" either, but I had always assumed that I will have to be the one to take care of those. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 03:36, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Assassination

Why did you do that? It was great the way it was, and I put a lot of effort in adding all of Kassandra’s targets. I was even going to add in Eivor’s targets. Frontierchris 19:15, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

A rewrite had been agreed since 13 March 13 2020 with no dissenting opinions. If you wanted the page to remain as it was you had over a year to make that known. - Soranin (talk) 19:35, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

I would have made it known if I knew about the rewrite. Besides, if I did tell you, would that really have made any difference. I mean, I can’t remember the last time you guys ever agreed with me. Frontierchris 19:35, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't see why it wouldn't have made a difference, assuming you would back up your point with arguments for it. We work with discussion, if no one says anything how are we to know? - Soranin (talk) 19:57, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Is it to late to change it back, or can we at least list all the assassination targets on the profile of each main character? I mean the assassination target article made this wiki more interesting and I always enjoyed adding to it. Frontierchris 20:08, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

It is too late to change it back, but there is an ongoing discussion on the targets here. - Soranin (talk) 20:21, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

That is interesting but all that talks about is categories. What I’m talking about is listing things. Besides, what’s the point in having such a category if we don’t have a page that shows which target was killed by whom? Frontierchris 20:48, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

A category page is strictly a list, to have both would be kinda redundant. We also have Target menu page covering some of this. A major reason for reworking the Assassinations page was a lot of the people listed their weren’t actually assassinated but killed in other manners. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 21:07, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

It's understandable if you didn't notice that there was a proposal for the rewrite of the article, especially since it languished for over a year without further attention paid to it. But the procedure is that proposals that are not met with objections within two weeks can be acted upon. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 21:25, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Well can we still at least make lists on the articles of all the main protagonists, both assassination and non-assassination, I mean just like we listed all the ships sunk by the Aquila, the Jackdaw, the Morrigan, and the Adrestia? Frontierchris 23:53, 25 April 2021

Is anyone going to answer my question? Frontierchris 13:59, April 26 2021

Chris, your rudeness will not speed up receiving an answer, especially as it's only been less than a full day. Everyone in this thread likely has other things on their minds, whether it's work, since it's a regular weekday, or other edit projects currently being worked on. While the issue of describing the act of assassination rather than listing individual targets is being discussed above, your proposal regarding ships sunk by protagonists is probably not as pressing a matter to the two Staff and one senior member here, and so a prompt answer is likely not on their list of priorities at the moment. I'm sure someone will reply when they have the time. Please relax and be patient. If you want to feel busy, maybe do some edits on other pages to kill time until you hear back. – Darman (talk) 18:45, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

I wasn't upset with Frontierchris even though Darman, you're right that one should wait longer than a full day to expect a reply back. For my part, Fronti, the reason why I delayed answering is because I am honestly just not sure if that's a good idea or not. If you think that it would be helpful, we certainly should take that into consideration, but I am trying to think over what might be the cons about it. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 19:10, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Ok, and sorry for my rudeness. Anyway I just don’t want all my hard work thrown away, and if we can’t have a single page that lists individual targets we should at least list them in the articles of those who killed them. You see, I like making lists and I think that listing such things makes this wiki more enjoyable. I mean, who says editing can’t be fun. Oh and by the way you can call me Chris. 19:30, 26 April 2021

I don't know why this discussion is taking place in my talk page rather than, say, the discussion forums, but I'll give my two cents, I suppose. Not only are the "assassinations" subjective in a manner (lacrosse for example does not consider haytham's death an assassination, which i disagree with), i believe their addition to a page would serve nothing other than to make pages more unwieldy to deal with (for example, Ezio's and Kassandra's). I also believe that if the assassinations are relevant, they would already be part of the article text. - Soranin (talk) 20:54, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

The topic began on your talk page. I understand if it might be annoying for you, but it is not wrong to see the topic to its end the same place where it started unless we're sure we need to take it to the forums for a formal consensus-building or voting. It might be about time to move the discussion if Frontierchris really wants to pursue this, but up until now, we've just been broaching what dispute is there in the first place and what people might want to put on the table. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 21:30, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

So where should we move this discussion? Frontierchris 21:39, 26 April 2021

Well you could start a topic on any of the aforementioned talk pages but I suggest creating a new post in the discussion forums and linking to this specific conversation so other people haven context. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 01:57, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

How do I link this conversation to the discussion forums? I know this probably sounds like a fool question, but I’m kind of confused at the moment. Frontierchris 19:28, 27 April 2021

It would be [[User talk: Soranin#Assassination]], though you could also copy and paste the important bits. - Soranin (talk) 23:55, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

https://assassinscreed.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000000122834 here we go for future use. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 17:57, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

How do I start a topic in the discussion forums? Frontierchris 14:06, 1 May 2021

Sorry for embarrassing you

Hey Jhonnies, I would just like to apologize for calling you out on another user's talk page and embarrassing you. It wasn't the correct response from me. The proper response from me would have been to do the revisions I had in mind instead, or, given lack of time to spare, just let the reverts pass without comment and make the corrections when I get around to it. It must've seemed like I suddenly pinned that on you. Lately, I have just been enormously stressed with work outside the wiki and within the wiki itself, and it can be aggravating seeing more work pile-up unexpectedly, always more things to fix, but that burden can't all fall upon you and Darman either. I recognize that my perfectionistic standards can be too unrealistic sometimes. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 04:50, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

If I may add myself, when I read your post, Sol, I didn't think you were throwing Soranin under the bus. It seemed more like observing an editing "tic" and awkwardly saying "It's teeeeechnically wrong, but we're all pressed for time, so...", in the knowledge that it would be resolved ~eventually~ when one of you wasn't so swamped, what with ACV and irl. But even still, I get why you're posting this, as not everyone may have read it as charitably. – Darman (talk) 13:00, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

It did feel like I was being dissed without provocation, but now I understand where you're coming from. No hard feelings :) - Soranin (talk) 15:33, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

AC Syndicate Subtitles Script

Hello! I'm sorry to bother you out of the blue, but I had a question. I've been doing through the text files for the dialogue in the ACS, and I've noticed that the script are missing a few bits and pieces , particularly the train dialogue (the videos are some of them for the Frye twins; it's definitely not all of them). I tried using the search feature in the documents' program to check if any lines are in there, and sadly, they are not (not even for the train dialogue you get with Henry, Clara, Ned, Topping, or the Rooks). The triggers for the train dialogue is hard to get since there's a lot of factors to consider, so I've been trying hard to find them to very little success (especially for the Frye twins' Associates, since dialogue can differ depending which one you're playing with). Additionally, I noticed that there are no lines for the Jack the Ripper DLC, as shown in the audio files here. I was wondering if there any other datamine text files documents you might be aware of that is more fully developed floating around in the fandom? --NinjaSheik 19:28, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello! Hmm, I don't recall if the train dialogue has subtitles, if it doesn't it wouldn't be in the text files at any rate. The only piece I recall has subtitles ("Seems a letter has come for Jacob...") does appear in the subtitles file, however. Didn't know about the missing dialogue of JtR, but I think it should have some cause I recall Kali popping up when I searched for it some time ago. Sorry I can't be of help there, far as I know that's the fullest one around online. - Soranin (talk) 20:11, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Ah, shoot. I was hoping to get all of the train dialogue for the Frye twins and their Associates (plus the Rooks), but it's REALLY hard to trigger all of it (again, it depends on a lot of factors) and there isn't any video on YT (or anywhere else) that has a compilation of it. It's pretty weird, though. I'm still skimming through the subtitles script, but I can see dialogue/lines that were never subtitled in the actual game (e.g. The lines the Frye twins say when you do the Catch The Thief Crowd Events with the children or the background conversations from the NPCs), so I'm guessing the users who originally provided the text files didn't realize that the the tools they used didn't extract everything. I also noticed that the subtitles script might be missing lines from the missions with Singh, too, so the subtitles script might be incomplete. I'm unsure how much missing audio files are buried within the game files in either the main game or the DLC, so that's why I've been trying to find them. I definitely recommend checking on the Tumblr blog because they have quite a bit of datamine audio files from the games (e.g. For AC, Altaïr has lines he says in Arabic to his assassination targets when he kills them, which never made it into the game), and while they may not have everything, it's something.

In any case, no need to apologize. I'm finding out more about the datamine info thanks to all of your help. I really appreciate it! I need to finish going through the datamine files first, and maybe I'll reach out to Touloir to see if they can help, if they really are a dataminer. I'm going through the text files slowly since there's a lot to comb through, but as someone who's big on the small details, I find it pretty fascinating. If you know anything more, please do let me know. Again, thank you so much for the last few days with replying to my questions and helping me finding information. :)--NinjaSheik 20:46, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello

Hiya, Soranin. I'm just dropping by to hello since I saw you've back on the wiki, and to say thanks again for all of your help back with the text files and all that. I hope you've been well!--NinjaSheik 21:26, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Image information

Thanks for adding the info templates for the pics. For whatever reason, it seems none of us can edit pic details beyond adding categories. I wonder why Chrome and Microsoft Edge don't allow it while Firefox does. It's definitely inconvenient. – Darman (talk) 14:35, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

No problem! I'm glad to help. (It's cause firefox is amazing *wink*). - Soranin (talk) 16:42, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Haha! Well, I'm not installing another browser just to edit pics. It's needed, but article pages are more important. Until this clears up (if ever?), and since you seem to be our main man for that now, I was wondering if I could foist an image project on you (on top of the countless ones we have on backburner) that I had been intending to finish? Oh, and I replied to you earlier on my talk page. – Darman (talk) 12:35, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Hmmmm. I suppose it depends on how big this project is, cause I do have a bit more time to myself starting this week but I got a lot of project I wanted to delve into. (In no particular order: transcription for the minor Valhalla stuff, the valhalla gear pages we're missing, the WD Legion crossover stuff, the French augmented reality tours, the rest of the Geirmund's saga stuff, the Rebellion campaign characters both the heroes and those mentioned in the missions, and the Silk Road stuff if I can get my hands on a copy) If your project is not too complicated, I might be able to do it :) - Soranin (talk) 13:33, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

That's why I asked because I know we both tend to go big on our projects. It's technically big, in that there's a lot of changes, but they're minor things similar in style to recategorizations / fixing redlinks and not adding new lore as you've just listed. Anyway, I made the {ArtStation} template last June following the vein of {YouTube}, {Twitter}, {Amazon}, etc. and hoped to change all the "ArtStation – [Art Piece Name]" links on uploaded concept art. But with this image problem, now I can't add it unless I upload a new pic nor can I properly recategorize those which should be {CC-BY-SA} instead of whatever else they are. You can find all these links by searching "https://www.artstation.com/artwork" on Special:LinkSearch. If it helps any, I can add the template to artist pages, as I've done with Nathanael Millet. – Darman (talk) 22:10, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Never mind this, seems I can edit pictures again! But thanks for accepting my request for help. – Darman (talk) 23:25, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Animus Mods

Hey, I see you added a bunch of new Animus mod gear. Just a word of caution, Sol is iffy on using "was made available to [player character]" in the second paragraph because it can imply that Kassandra and Eivor has impossible historical access to [object] through a computer patch in the modern day. His reasons and greater discussion between him and I on this after I was confused can be found on his talk page under "Animus mod paragraphs". – Darman (talk) 23:25, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Did that discussion lead anywhere? Cause like, I'm all for improving it, but we're also like 4 people having to do all the pages so corners will be cut lest we get even further behind what we're doing. Something's gotta give, sadly, and these animus mods end up being the weakest link. - Soranin (talk) 00:01, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

By my reading, I think we only resolved to try to pay attention to what words we use lest we accidentally infer what I'd mentioned above, but you're right, the Animus mods are also the least of our worries now. – Darman (talk) 00:10, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Like, just for the hell of it I counted how many gear pages we're missing from Valhalla. It's 43 microtransaction armor pieces, 15 weapons and 24 non-mtx armor. Meanwhile, we're still missing the dialogue to a bunch of main missions from Valhalla, we got almost nothing from BoV, we're behind on Gold, Geirmund's Saga, Ming Storm, Desert Oath, LD. Just off the top of my head.

It's not doable. - Soranin (talk) 00:18, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. :/ And with others not here as much or at all because of school/work, myself included, the handful of people who remain from the few numbers already have to really pick their battles. I almost yearn for the days in...2019(?) when Ubisoft said they'd take a break from releasing a new game annually, because I feel it really gave us breathing space to catch up some. Not completely, given the sheer volume of media they release (oof, everything published first in French, Chinese, and Japanese...), but we definitely got stuff done. – Darman (talk) 00:30, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Smart accusation

Lol did you forget to change accounts? Doxe di Costantinopoli (talk) 15:37, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes, obviously. Not like more than one person can object to being called a pedant for correcting misinformation. - Soranin (talk) 17:08, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Oskoreia Festival

I'm not actually in the Discord so I can't see the proof you have, but I'll take your word for it. I played the festival myself today and I never got any quest called "Oskoreia Festival" nor is there any in my Completed Quests log. Thus I thought it wasn't there (unlike the other two festivals where I got the quest upon loading into my save). Upon loading my save, even older ones, I immediately get kicked into the cutscenes introducing the festival, spawning in Ravensthorpe afterwards (even when I wasn't at somewhere else beforehand), and never get an "Oskoreia Festival". Maybe it's just like this on Xbox? I have no idea how to trigger receiving the quest, it seems like the game is skipping it for me. Kennyannydenny (talk) 22:17, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Brotherhood of Venice

"i'm making so much work for you, darman, i'm sorry" – Soranin (talk) 21:37, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

*Finally surfaces to reply after adding links and style updates to fifty BOV memories, as well as any page for things that were so much as mentioned*

NO YOU'RE NOT! You take perverse glee and enjoy inflicting that on me! *ahem* Anyways...

If I may be bold to suggest, I'm getting the feeling that the BOV stuff with the Hidden Blade info, bios for Leonardo Loredan and Machiavelli, etc. at the bottom of your first sandbox are closest akin to Database entries? At least, that's how the writing style seems to me. Also, the Staff of Eden hidden by the Assassins and later found by the Templars in Tokyo XXI expansion is not the Papal Staff, since BOV is set after that one is locked in the Vatican, so I gave it the conjectural name of "Venetian Staff", like ACReb's "Shattered Staff" because I couldn't find a clear owner like the Russian imperial family, Hermes, Alexander III, etc. Do you know if BOv has a pic of it?

I am a bit confused what to name their new HQs, though. I tentatively put them as "Venetian/Roman Brotherhood HQs" following style of Spanish Brotherhood HQ, but the Venetian Assassins are technically a sub-branch of the Italian Brotherhood. Further, this second Roman HQ is separate from their main one of Tiber Island and though it's described as being repossessed from Roman thieves, it is not La Volpe Addormentata. What would you suggest? – Darman (talk) 07:20, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Since you created the Venetian Staff page (great job, btw) and kept the conjectural name for the alternate HQ, I guess we'll do it live, then. – Darman (talk) 16:50, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

I've asked Lacrosse to get back to me on the existence of an image for the Staff (since all I transcribed came from photos they sent on discord for that purpose) and am waiting for them to get back to me. And I feel like the name you chose for the HQs is good. - Soranin (talk) 02:15, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

OK, cool. Maybe we can add a bunch of pics from BOV the way we have for cards in AC: Memories and Recollections. Btw, any thoughts on my theory about BOV's Database-like infotabs you have? – Darman (talk) 00:10, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

They do seem to be DB entries, but Lacrosse brought up the point of the voice being inconsistent between the entries, and I think they are going to email Triton-Noir in the near future to try and find out more about it. - Soranin (talk) 16:55, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Cool. Here's hoping they get a reply. I'll hold off adding these to the Database page then. – Darman (talk) 22:50, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

How should we categorize these memories? You currently have them as [Category:Memories of Venetian Assassin], but if kept in that fashion, it probably should be more like [Memories of a Venetian Assassin], since we don't use Wookieepedia's format of using "unidentified" in page titles. Also, I guess you didn't get any reply from Triton about the database author voice? – Darman (talk) 15:50, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

AC TV show table

Good idea copying a TV episode recap table simiilar to what WP has! I was wondering how we'd cover that. And I'm both flattered you think I am "Master of Minutia" and am feeling very called out now. I will say I'm surprised I have my first writing/directing credits in the TV show, since I don't recall a thing from the set! I take it "The Decanonization of Odyssey" is a jest, but I do not understand it. How do XOdeyssusx and Sol play a role in it? – Darman (talk) 01:25, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! I've been looking around on other wikis to see how they do it, so I adapted it in the way i think would be best for us, assuming the 3 tv series ever release... I think you wrote and directed while adding links to the BoV memories, which would explain why you don't remember :D

The Odyssey stuff is because Sol is discussing the canon over on discord in preparation for a future thread so there's been long discussions with a lot of people chiming in and Odey's reaction is basically "I hate this, decanonize everything" (which, same). - Soranin (talk) 03:21, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Haha, maybe that's why I don't remember, it's all a blur from those 4 days of linking madness! What's wrong with ACOD, though? I haven't completed it (just a little under half done main plot), but I've enojyed what I've played so far. Is it the events in Greece or issues with modern day? – Darman (talk) 16:50, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

The issue is that even though the novel is canon, pretty much none of the events depicted that we have dates for (like, Perikles' death and the olympics) could've happen in the historical date. It's a complete mess. - Soranin (talk) 02:15, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Huh, can't say I noticed that, but I wasn't quite reading it for with a more lore focus the way I was with Geirmund's Saga. – Darman (talk) 00:10, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Hiya, Soranin. How's it going? I'm coming by to wish you a Happy New Year, and to thank you for everything you've done for me this year. When I first started to find someone to help me with questions with datamine stuff, you were the only user who took the time to help me out and guide in the right direction. And now, I'm an amateur dataminer myself. XD Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and answering questions I have. I'm a total noob who doesn't know what they're doing, but I've gotten this far thanks to you setting me on the right track. I truly appreciate what you've done for me this past year. I'm sorry we couldn't talk more, but I know you've been busy with your dissertation and trying to edit the AC Wiki, with so many exiciting things being released recently. I have to hurry up and catch up with ACV and all of the new DLC content for it, since I sadly haven't had a chance to even start the main game. T_T

Needless to say, I had to put a full stop with datamining Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for months because of my own real life responsbilities, but I made it a resolution to get back working on it next year. :) There's still so many interesting stuff inside the game files, including the audio files since I can definitely confirm not everything can be found in simply the text files. I know I've posted about some of this stuff before on the respective talk pages, and it makes me all the more excited to take the time and dig through it. That being said, however, the bits of info I posted about the hidden timeline in the ACS files on the JTR DLC's talk page might be the last time I post anything relating to the datamine content on the AC Wiki. Here's why:

I know I mentioned this before on our last discussion on my talk page (to you and Lacrossedeamon), but the reason I often post things on the talk pages is because I'm utterly lost on how should I add and what I should I cover, because you guys don't have a separate article covering the list of removed/datamine content in the AC games like other game wikis do. I know that's hard because...

1.) There doesn't seem to be a lot of dataminers in the fandom.

2.) Those who do know how to datamine are not posting the content fully online.

3.) It is time-consuming, especially how big of a franchise AC is.

I remember Lacrossedeamon mentioning the AC Wiki staff was discussing on creating their own removed content page, as other wikis do, but considering it's been months since that conversation happened and I am not privy to the staff's discussions on Discord, I'm still feeling at a lost on what to do with this. I often feel bad with always having to post information I find on the talk pages since it feels like I'm spamming rather than adding the info on the page myself, but I'm also trying not to overstep since I know very little how you guys operate here. >_<; And from whar I've briefly observed from watching the other community members, I think there's a lot that needs to be overhauled in terms of formatting and whatnot. I'll be around and lurking, but due to these reasons, I'll won't post anything more in terms of datamine content on the AC Wiki.

This message gotten way longer than I wanted it to, so I'll end it here. Again, thank you so much for helping me this year, Soranin, and I wish you all the best for your in the coming new year. :D--NinjaSheik 00:37, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

For my baseline reaction, refer to this gif.

Thanks for the new year wishes, I wish you all the best as well! I've been good, though a bit busy with revisions, but it's all good. Awww, I'm glad I could help guide you in the datamine direction even though I'm also a noob when it comes to that :D

In regards to where in a page the deleted content should go, me and Lacrosse have been putting what we find interesting in the "Behind the scenes" sections of the page it has most to do with, like in the case of Michel Reuge. Though this isn't widely used because we still haven't had the discussion about it cause Ubi just decided to swamp us with content this past year :/

Any particular reason you're not on the AC Wiki discord? I recall you mentioning you had a discord, so it's not like in Darman's case (another editor here, he lacks a discord account). Though if it's just not wanting to bother with the wiki server, don't worry, we mainly use the discord discussions to get an idea of the mood between the editors before posting the discussion here on the wiki for approval or rejection, so when it happens I'll make sure to ping you.

Have a great year! - Soranin (talk) 22:29, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

D'aww, thank you, Soranin! <3 I never had someone make me a .gif before! I'm flattered! XD

I'm glad to hear you're doing well. Please be careful with everything that's been going with the pandemic and take time for yourself to rest. And I'm still an absolute amateur when it comes to datamining. But I'm having fun learning the basics and whatnot, even if most of the technical stuff and terms fly over my head. ^_^; I gotta say, I never expected the in-game files to be so freaking CHAOTIC to go through. Nothing is in order and nothing is proprly labeled. I wish the developers have some mercy on dataminers and make things more neat and organized in the future.

Yes, I've seen how some of the pages are set up, but I also notice that some stuff isn't done in a uniformed structure among the pages, but I guess that's because the staff are discussing how pages should be formatted. Given what you told me, I'm not surprised that you guys haven't made progress with creating a deleted/removed content page. A lot of AC content being released as they are, it's no wonder you guys are swamped. It's what I figured, and there's the Dawn of Ragnarok coming up in a few months, too! I'm gonna have my hands full just getting started on ACV this year.

Yes, I do have a Discord, but I never considered joining the AC Wiki's Discord since I'm not an active contributor or anything, so I feel rather awkward and intimidated about joining a wiki's server if I'm not very involved with its community. This year, I'm going to be taking more of a backseat with wiki editing in general to make room for personal things/projects I've been holding off, including finishing up datamining Assassin's Creed: Syndicate since I had to stop doing it due to my crazy work schedule. I'm going to finish up datamining the audio files and organizing them. (I didn't mention this anywhere on the wiki, but I was skimming through the audio files, I found removed "battle dialogue", for lack of better terms, between Jacob and Starrick and even alternate audio files for Darwin's missions! There's even alternate audio files for Singh's DLC. I found one for cutscene where the Frye twins speak with Singh after his argument with Henry were originally conceptualized like the standard side missions, in which the players get to choose either to play as Jacob or Evie, so there's audio files that have them speak separately with him instead of together. But I digress...). Afterwards, I plan to make my way to properly going through the text files since that requires me skimming through a lot of broken, disorganized text. You guys have your hands full with ACV, and I know datamining those files is going to take a while, but if you ever make more progress with the deleted/removed content article, feel free to ping me whenever. :)

Likewise, Soranin! I hope this new year has been treating you well and I'm wishing you the best of luck on all of your endeveaors.--NinjaSheik 04:08, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

"Vandalism"

Please do not vandalize pages by undoing edits, especially when they have linked references supporting them, and on pages were the site as literally requested that the article be rewritten/edited due to lack of information or poor writing. Thanks. Sarasti the Serpent (talk) 23:38, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Since you have also dragged Soranin into this fray of your own making, I will respond here. To start, the only "poor English" that you accuse me of comes instead from your unnecessary, stilted verbiage, a critique I also noted on your talk page. I admit my grammar may not be perfect all the time, but my sentences are readable, while you have repeatedly expanded sections with lengthy words in what could easily be mistaken for an attempt to appear smarter.

You say your writing has never been an issue before, but that is because we do not have the userbase to monitor the quality of changes the way we did even 5 years ago. Much of your info on pages you've touched is disputed for being sourceless and/or subjective to interpretations.

Further, neither Soranin's nor my own actions undoing your edits constitute vandalism. Instead, it is you who could—though not definitively "is/are", note—be seen as having technically vandalized first, by intentionally adding extra lines below the introductory paragraphs on Ptahmose's page. The lines did not exist when you first edited it, as they extend a page with needless blank space, and Soranin removed them for that very reason. Both Soranin and I have been here for a number of years, and in that time, we have learned through observation and constructive community criticism the standards in how to format articles. You, however, are a relatively new account, one who still needs fine tuning on what the wiki style guide accepts and how to properly format references, yet immediately jumps to accusations when any established member changes or undoes your work.

If need be, we can appeal this case to the Staff, but I would prefer to try to settle this here civilly instead of incessant edit wars, and without your preening thinking you know better; it will not curry you favor. – Darman (talk) 07:41, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Your sentences were not readable. They were near unintelligible. They were also somehow more superfluous despite using fewer words (in the opening paragraph, you replaced the description of what Hetepi had done and then make reference to "schemes", despite the "curse" he put on Memphis being his actual scheme). Then you included misinformation by stating Hetepi hid in the temple, which is not true. I have tried to compromise with you, and removed all superfluous information, but you insist on using unreadable, poor English.

Hello! I repeatedly expanded sections because all the articles had stubs at the top asking for expansion! Both Hetepi's and Ptahmose' did! I wouldn't have written anything on any of those pages had they been properly written and had Fandom not been asking for expansion. My grammar (which is mere common English; not any attempt to sound "smarter"— unless of course proper, intelligible English is considered too extreme for people nowadays) has never, ever been an issue before today on any of the fandom sites that I have been writing on for years, which makes me think this is not about grammar at all, especially since you also vandalized pages like Khaliset and Taharqa where I didn't actually edit the paragraphs, and only added information about the etymological origins of their names, which I did for Hetepi, Ptahmose and various others as well.

None of the information I included was sourceless. I added at least a half dozen external links in regards to etymology. I even went out of my way to add IPA transliterations.

And yes, your edits absolutely constitute vandalism, as removing intelligible sentences and replacing them with unintelligible ones, while also including misinformation (Hetepi did not hide in the temple) and removing information that is supported with external links/references is the very definition of vandalism.

Evidently you do not know how to format articles, as have the articles had warning at the top asking for expansion or major edit (Hetepi's and Ptahmose' both did).

As I have intimated before, I am perfectly willing to compromise with you. I have and will remove any superfluous/conjectural information (if you'd read the Hetepi page after my edit, you'll notice that I removed two thirds of my initial edit, and all that remains of my writing is the opening paragraph— which is necessary as the previous one was unintelligible and terribly written, and also redundant— and the change about Hetepi hiding in the temple, as he did not. He was in the temple, but was not hiding there; it was pure coincidence that he was dressed in the same regalia as the other Anubis Priests. As for Ptahmose, the article was requesting expansion, and I added information about the work Ptahmose was doing for Rufio (demolishing Egyptian monuments to build Roman infrastructure, selling artifacts to fund the Roman war effort, and collecting shards of a star for the Order of the Ancients, all of which are explicitly showcased in the DLC through dialogue), none of which was there before for some reason, and is likely why fandom was asking for expansion. The blank space on Ptahmose was not my doing at all. It was there before I edited. It was one of the things I noticed that seemed as though th page had been neglected. It also no longer has a picture now for some reason. As for Medunamun, I actually didn't add any verbosity at all (it was a pretty verbose article to begin with), most of my changes were rearranging the order of sentences in order to improve syntax, as it was very stilted before, and near unintelligible. I actually even replaced some words with more common ones. The only thing I added entirely on my own was a short paragraph describing how Medunamun tortured the Amun Priests to get information about the vault. That is in no way conjectural, and is shown explicitly in a cutscene.

Again, I am perfectly willing to compromise. I have no issue with some of your edits, and actually agree that many (specifically on the Heteli page) were absolutely warranted due to baseless conjecture or needless verbosity on my part. But so far you've not been willing to meet in the middle at all, and have wantonly removed any and all of my edits, many of which were absolutely, 100% necessary and warranted. Again, I am completely willing to remove all conjectural info, and to tone down some of my writing to make it more accessible. Please meet me in the middle here.Sarasti the Serpent (talk) 14:23, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

I ain't reading all of this right now, but I want to point out that Bayek himself says that Hetepi was hiding out among his brothers. - Soranin (talk) 15:08, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Do you have a reference for that? If true, it sounds like a figure of speech. There is no evidence in-game that Hetepi had any idea Bayek was coming for him. Sarasti the Serpent (talk) 15:43, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Don't be obtuse. If miasma has multiple meanings, so too does hiding. Hetepi may not be purposefuly hiding to avoid Bayek in particular, but from the Medjay's perspective, he is, especially as Hetepi is using his position as Priest of Anubis as a (poor) cover for his activities. To answer your question, though, Bayek says it in "The Lizard's Face". – Darman (talk) 16:00, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello everyone, I can see that this is quite a heated battle that has managed to rage across multiple articles at once. First, I want to welcome Sarasti as a new editor to the Assassin's Creed Wiki and introduce myself as the head administrator since you might not be aware of that. Soranin asked me to intervene, and I am glad that she did given not just the intensity of this dispute but also because the honest truth is that upon close inspection and correction of almost all the articles in dispute, I actually noticed many errors being committed on all parties involved here.

Because of the extensiveness of the problems, I am going to proceed systematically and outline exactly how I am going to explain the issues:

1. Vandalism
2. What is edit warring?
3. Each article in dispute, one by one.
4. What were everyone's mistakes?

Vandalism

Vandalism are not poor edits. Vandalism are bad faith edits. Bad faith edits mean edits intended to sabotage, disrupt, or otherwise reduce the quality of a page in some way. No one here has committed vandalism because no matter how much Sora and Darman may disagree with Sarasti's edits and vice versa, all three of you were editing in good faith, meaning the honest intent to improve the articles.

Even if you guys find one another's edits unintelligible—and for the record, none of your writings were unintelligible to me—it is very clear that everyone's intent to improve the articles was earnest. We share a core community principle with Wikipedia called Wikipedia:Assume good faith (AGF) meaning that in the presence of bad edits, we should do our best to first give the benefit of the doubt to their editor that they were trying their best to help.

With that in mind, Sarasti, it is wrong of you to repeatedly characterize Sora and Darman's edits or reversions as vandalism because both of them honestly believe they are just preventing bad edits and their intent is to help the wiki.

At the same time, I observe that Soranin reverted Sarasti's major edits—almost all amounting to 500+ characters each—across multiple articles without leaving any edit summary explaining the reversions and even having all of them marked as minor edits (which I can assume is just a case of negligence or bad habit). This is actually inappropriate as well, especially given that you are an experienced and prolific editor. While edit summaries are not usually mandatory, and it is common on every wiki to see even staff edit without bothering to fill them out each time, they are always encouraged and in some cases are essential. Those cases where they are essential is when they are likely to be disputed, dealing with ongoing major editing disputes, and/or involve 500+ characters (when the digits turn bolded) and isn't just adding new content. The exception is if you are reverting spam and/or vandalism, but as I have explained, no one has been committing vandalism.

All three cases apply here and acting in conjunction with Darman who has been leaving comments on talk pages and edit summaries is not sufficient because as an indepedent editor, it is also important to hear your own thoughts on the matter as well. As for minor edits, this is a feature that editors have a bad habit of automating or ignoring, but it should never be misused. Minor edits are typically just grammatical, spelling, and formatting changes, and reversions that are partaking in an active edit dispute are never minor edits since the feature was primarily designed to inform other editors that the edit is not worth the time to check. An editing dispute, by definition, is worth the time to check.

Because of the lack of edit summaries in those blanket reversions, I think to be fair to Sarasti, Sora's edits can appear to be vandalism to anyone unfamiliar with Sora even though they are not. But I also notice that Sarasti was already accusing Darman of vandalism even before Sora's involvement. Assuming good faith here, I genuinely think that maybe you didn't quite understand what vandalism means, but since I have proofread the disputed articles, your allegations that Darman's writing (or my writing in "Medunamun") are "unintelligible" are totally exaggerated to me and not cause for this repeated accusation.

Darman, you too, have made a mistake here when you fired back at Sarasti by claiming that he could have ("though not definitively [did]" technically vandalized first. I am going to brush aside that your technical claim even more indirectly said "technically be seen" because at that point I think that's a bit cheating. Sarasti's edit adding four blank lines not only did not vandalize, it could not technically be vandalism either simply because that sort of mistake given the earnesty of his efforts thus far means that from our vantage point, we are in no position to assume that to be an intentionally malicious edit as opposed to an accident. (In fact, it is a common bug in the system).

So from the first point about vandalism, I find that everyone has made their share of errors but I repeat that none of you have actually committed vandalism and should not be accusing that of each other.

Edit warring

It is common of editors to blame one another for edit warring while downplaying their own complicity in it. When does an editing dispute turn into an edit war and on whose onus is it to stop? There is actually a guideline to allow us to measure that objectively. It is the three-revert rule (3RR). To summarize, it means that no editor may perform more than three reversions on a particular article in a 24-hour period, with the additional caveat that any editor who attempts to game this rule, such as by alterting their reversion slightly or performing a fourth reversion just after the 24-hour period, will still be seen as committing this offence. Although we can describe an editing dispute as an edit war even before any user has violated the 3RR, no user has officially committed the offence of edit warring until they have violated 3RR. Please refer to the linked Wikipedia page for specific exemptions to the 3RR.

One recurring issue is that veteran editors tend to have this misconception that the burden to cease edit warring falls on newer, junior editors. This is not at all the case. The 3RR applies to all editors in equal measure, even moderators, even administrators. The 3RR sets a hardline because sometimes users are tempted to open up a discussion on the dispute right after they have just performed another reversion with the mind of leaving their version up during the "armistice" where negotiations are ongoing. Deliberately doing this is bad practice, and we have had this issue before where an editor accused another of edit warring but believed that their staff position privileged their edit to be the sitting version while talks were underway and could remain unless successfully unseated in those talks.

When an editor performs a partial revert which attempts to offer a compromise, this does not count towards the 3RR nor is it an act of edit warring. But any straight rejection of this compromise as opposed to offering a counter-compromise does count toward the 3RR.

To be clear, I have not checked if any of you have violated the 3RR yet. Because the edit disputes have spanned multiple articles, I found this to be a challenging task since I also needed to track at what point in the conflict did you guys take which action. So I will save that for last, and since this is the first time I am explaining this to the three of you clearly, I will be lenient if any of you have violated the 3RR, but I am laying down this information in the hopes that you guys will be better equipped to handle edit conflicts civilly and responsibly in the future.

Medunamun

"Medunamun" was the first disputed article that I checked. Since most of the article was originally written by me, it was personally a most interesting case. When I saw Sarasti's revisions of some of my sentences, I actually appreciated them and thought they were good revisions for the most part. Honestly, I gained a positive impression of Sarasti's writing skills from that article, and what you say about the diction being "pretty verbose to begin with" contains some truth because this reflects the fact that I don't think your writing style, Sarasti, is generally as verbose as Darman finds it (but your edits to "Ptahmose" and "Hetepi" were not as fluid). Because of that, I did reincorporate some of your revisions to "Medunamun".

However, I disagree that my writing was more stilted than yours. I noted in my edit summary that my best friend once critiqued an essay I was writing in college for being structured in such a way to have too many commas (due to appositives, complex sentences, transitions, etc.), leading to a bit stunting of the flow. Because that was the only negative feedback he ever gave me, I remember it well and try to bear it in mind in all my future writing. But, it is for that same reason that I could tell that a few of your revisions in "Medunamun" arguably had more stilted flow. To give one example: Sol: With a distinct, gravelly voice and a streak of sadism, Medunamun was in manner and disposition a rather ghastly individual. Sarasti: With a distinct, gravelly voice and a streak of sadism, Medunamun was, in both manner and disposition, a rather ghastly individual.

At first, I was going to accept your revision because I understand that "in both manner and disposition" is a more common phrase and therefore sounds slightly more natural. However, then I remembered what my friend had said about reducing the need to rely on too many commas in the way I structure my sentences. I noticed that I couldn't grammatically use your phrasing without adding two extra commas and their additional tiny pauses. Those tiny pauses add up over the course of the article and could create the "stilting" my friend talked about, and my original phrasing, while less common, wasn't unnatural either. I saw it as just a trade-off, so I decided to keep my version.

Here's another example:
Sol (original): His piety was a mask for not only his sadism—a rather poor one given his public reputation—but his deep-seated insecurities.
Sarasti: His piety was a mere mask, not only for his cruelty—a rather meagre one given his public reputation—but also for deep-seated insecurities.
Sol (final): His piety was a mere mask for not only his cruelty—a rather meagre one given his public reputation—a rather meagre one given his public reputation—but also for deep-seated insecurities.

Your wording using the structure "not only for. . .but also" and using mere for emphasis initially sounds a bit more intuitive because of how commonly they are used. However, I ended up deciding to keep the alternate order "for not only. . .but" because the sentence already has a whole embedded phrase using em-dashes and adding the extra comma causes one extra pause too many, stilting the sentence. I did incorporate your addition of mere and your change of poor to meagre, which I would expect Darman to think increases its verbosity unnecessarily. I do not think it becomes too verbose with these changes, but bear in mind that, knowing my own meticulousness when writing, I probably had already considered using meagre instead of poor and mere mask instead of mask when I first wrote the sentence but rejected them at the time for exact reasons I cannot recall.

Overall, your revisions were good but the changes were more about stylistic differences where I thought either version for many of the sentences could be acceptable. I must add that calling my writing in the article "near unintelligible" is plainly a gross hyperbole and false statement, and I'm sure you know it considering that your version was very similiar to mine at the end of the day.

Ptahmose

I couldn't help but observe that Sarasti's writing in "Ptahmose" was much less on par with his revisions in "Medunamun", and it is fair of Darman to consider it too verbose. Compare ~
Sarasti: ". . .believing the former Medjay to be an avenging proxy of the gods that sought to punish him for his role in the desecration of hallowed Egyptian structures and artifacts"
Darman: ". . .believing the former Medjay to be an avenging spirit sent by the gods to punish him for desecrating hallowed structures and artifacts"

Darman certainly managed to convey the exact same meaning using more fluid language by cutting extraneous words here. I think his criticism is valid in this case. I was going to accept Darman's revision, but then I double-checked the memory, and I realized that it is entirely a mistake to say that Ptahmose interpreted Bayek as an avenger sent by the gods. He calls out "Blades of Thoth" if he sees Bayek wielding them because he was searching for those daggers. But if the player assassinates Ptahmose steathily, the line never shows up, and Ptahmose appears unafraid of Bayek in his death corridor scene. So, I removed this part completely.

Nonetheless, I'm confused with Darman's comment that "Nationality has no bearing on actions". I actually had assumed that he edited out the paragraph mentioning Ptahmose's desecration of his own cultural heritage. My response would have been that the relation here is less national and more cultural, and that such deliberate and extreme acts of destruction against one's own cultural heritage would actually be a pretty significant detail about one's characer and values. I only just noticed that Darman only removed the "Despite being an Egyptian. . ." clause, but in my opinion, this hardly changes the meaning of the sentence other than removing something that adds a bit more clarity.

It's important to note here that despite Sarasti's writing being off in this article, he is right that the article was tagged for expansion, and I am grateful that he made the effort. Even now, it still needs more expansion and more detail. I'm not asking for "verbiage", but missing information remains.

Hetepi

This seems to have been the most contentious article, but I will summarize the issues more briefly. Darman did a good job for converting many long-winded, repetitive sentences into clear and concise sentences. Indeed, many of Sarasti's sentences could probably qualify as run-on sentences.

But I don't think that's a problem that "verbosity" captures precisely because in some cases in this same article, the complex vocabulary actually helps to hit home a main idea more powerfully. The last clause of the second paragraph in the introduction is an example: "all in pursuit of befouling Pasherenptah's reputation." In my opinion, this isn't verbose; this is an articulate way of closing a sentence and an introductory paragraph that concisely summarizes Hetepi's motive, goal, and action all in one clause. Befouling is clever diction here because the word also has a connotation of toxic air, so it has a creative double meaning. Darman's alternative isn't bad writing by any means, but it sacrifices impact for simplicity and safety.

The most glaring issue for me was the second paragraph in the biography section regarding Hetepi's motivation. Here, Sarasti's punctuation is all over the place, and there is at least one case of incorrect tense usage, which is understandably what impelled Darman to advise Sarasti to read the manual of style. However, it was admittedly disappointing that at no point did I see Darman identify the main reason why that paragraph is problematic. It is not because of "informal speech"; it is because we are not supposed to start speculating in the article—especially not within the body!

"the underlying motives [of Hetepi]. . .are never made clear", wrote Sarasti, but to whom? Us? The players? That would be out-of-universe, and so it violates the manual of style. Darman changes this to ". . .though his motivation remained a secret, as he never divulged to anyone. . ." which sounds much better and is in-universe, but the problem remained. To whom did his motivation remain a secret? To everyone in the world? Is this a true statement? How is it that we know that Hetepi never divulges his motives to his fellow members of the Order in their meetings? No, these lines made either speculation or assumptions and should have been removed completely.

All in all, as I noted in my edit summary, I think both Sarasti and Darman made their fair share of mistakes in this article and made their fair contributions. I incorporated both your edits in some measure in my correction, but I need time to rewrite the personality section because it needs to be further scrutinized.

Khaliset and Taharqa

In the case of these two articles, Sarasti is actually correct that categories are not content. They function to aid in article search and navigation and information that can be gleamed from them does not equate to that information being included within the article's content.

Pasherenptah and Taimhotep

These are the two disputed articles I have not yet had the time to look over I think.

Who was in the wrong?

I have finished counting the reverts.

Sarasti, you committed 4–5 reverts on "Hetepi", depending on whether we count one of your reverts which attempted a mild compromise but was then swiftly reverted by Sora. You committed 3 on "Pashereptah".

Darman, you committed 3 on "Hetepi" and 1 on Pashenreptah. I did not count your initial clean-up edit as a revert, but I can't tell if Sora's revert spared you from committing an extra revert on both articles.

Sora, you only ever reverted each disputed page once. However, I am actually even more disturbed now by the fact you did so swiftly every time without leaving any explanation. If I'm not seeing wrong, in all but one case, "Hetepi", you were the first to revert the article.

I'm not punishing anyone today even if you did violate the 3RR because I think everyone made their share of grave errors in this edit conflict, whether you technically reverted more times or not. I did want to illustrate the extent of the edit warring though. No one got near enough to three reverts on all the other articles, but I do not know how much it should weigh for a user to edit war across so many pages at one or for a user to make wordless reverts on good faith edits across multiple articles at once.

To review...

Sarasti, apart from the edit warring, throwing around false accusations of vandalism is not appropriate. On multiple occasions, you also repeatedly insinuated poor English on your opponent and exaggerated the flaws in the writing you were revising by outright calling them "unintelligible" when they clearly weren't. While I understand you were upset, treating your fellow editor with any sort of condescension is not constructive. To be honest, I think out of every writing that was involved in this conflict, the hardest to read and comprehend was your reply to Darman above due to the poor organization of your response, and it would have probably helped had you given clearer and more specific examples as to how you thought Darman exhibited poor grammar and syntax. However, I do recognize that you did take active steps to make some compromises to Darman in your edits or to address some of his complaints regarding citations and style. I can also appreciate that at the end of the day, you were only offering your services to the wiki to help us expand on our sub-standard articles, assistance that I, for one, certainly believe is needed and welcome.

Darman, even though you did technically stop short of violating the 3RR on all accounts, my main concern is that, from my point-of-view, you did not make adequate attempts to de-escalate the situation. The more I look over it, the more I can see that Sarasti's unfounded derision of your English was probably quite grating, but I guess I can't say I am pleased with your response above either. I don't think calling Sarasti out for "dragg[ing] Soranin into this fray of [your] own makinng" is strictly fair because the evidence suggests that Sora was actually undoing Sarasti's edits without explanation, and this makes me doubt your ability to be attentive and impartial in the face of these disputes. I recognize Sarasti to be a new editor to our wiki, and it is to be expected that these newcomers will make mistakes and require some initial guidance. Asserting your superiority as a senior editor is not something I like to see because it is a frequent problem in wikis that potential new editors are frightened away or repulsed by elitist veterans in the informal hierarchy.

Nothwithstanding this, you still make editing mistakes as well, and I hope that I have illustrated some of what they were this time around. When I inspected Sarasti's edits, even his revisions to my own writing, I was able to see some value among the mistakes and incorporate what I could. I fear a tendency for older editors to pounce on newer editors for being foolish and wrong when sometimes, the case really might just be a clash in writing style. That's partly what we witnessed here because I actually don't agree that "brevity" itself has ever been a principle of wiki writing. Conciseness, sure. But what has made Wikipedia great and distinct is its comprehensiveness, and here at the Assassin's Creed Wiki, every lore detail is supposed to be documented somewhere. All that aside, you were justified in your various criticisms of Sarasti's work, your initial clean-up attempt of "Hetepi" signified an effort to work through what you thought was a mess rather than rejecting it all outright, and you took initiative to open a discussion on the forthcoming dispute, and I think that shows you have been taking positive steps forward.

I share similar concerns with Sora, who was the one to alert me to this edit war. In part, I think Batalex is to blame for engineering us to be so hasty in dismissing new contributors with edits that appear troublesome, to assume that it is always vandalism. And that is what I think I see here. Whereas Sarasti was brashly and inappropriately accusing both of you of vandalism, I surmise that you two were reacting to his edits like they were unspoken vandalism in turn. That would explain why it felt appropriate to revert multiple articles of hundreds of characters all at once without offering any edit summary highlighting your reasons—because I cannot emphasize it enough that that is not okay. Part of being a senior editor is being able to have that patience to salvage problematic edits by new editors, integrate what we can, and teach them their mistakes so as to encourage their continued contributions rather than leave them feeling like the cost to entry is too suffocating. Those reverts instead probably looked abrupt and escalated the conflict. I understand that you probably thought you were just working in tandem with Darman and so was just leaving the communication to him, but in the future, it is vital that you carefully analyze suspect edits yourself and also make sure to leave your own comments. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 14:59, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Modern day event in ACflim

Why the modern day events from the movie shouldn't create? Am I doing something wrong? Or these are too short to create? --UJ112013 05:05, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

You are not doing anything wrong, it's just that those events would bee too short to create. - Soranin (talk) 14:11, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Gift

Thanks again for the gift! Skimming the second text doc, I found the part from the Ragnarök preview footage with Fritjof and confirmed my suspiscions / guess that Tyra was speaking Welsh, which yet again—and most annoyingly—is ignorantly rendered as just "(unintelligable)" when the series has had no issue with non-English interjections in the subtitles before. My question is, since the docs actually have the Welsh in it, like how I adapted Ciara's lines in "Flann over Ireland" to have the Irish Gaelic and English translation, should we also do the same for Tyra? And if so, could we also try to get the original lines from Brigid now we have them translated? Or should I ask try asking Sol, who is a higher authority here but not here quite as regularly as us, TiagoFF (yay!), etc? – Darman (talk) 06:00, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Part of me wants to say yes, but the other part wants to focus on stuff we're still missing. So yes, but like, should be absolutely bottom of the to do list. - Soranin (talk) 17:34, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Trastevere

Sora, I don't think the reasons you gave for removing the links to "Trastevere" seem to be quite valid.

First, a jurisdiction does not have to conform precisely with gameplay-defined districts to merit an article. Districts and regions drawn in game maps usually pertain more to gameplay than in-universe fact. In fact, landmarks which appear in a source but are never mentioned by name can also merit an article. The area of Trastevere does feature in Brotherhood and not even briefly. Its area within the game does not have to conform to the modern boundaries of the district called Trastevere because "Trastevere" simply refers to the distinct urban area across from the Tiber River, whether formally organized as a district by that name or not.

Second, "any attempt at a page would be too short" is not a clear reason to me, and I fear it still suggests a lingering sentiment that whether a subject warrants an article or not depends on expected length of the article. This is not true, is not a criteria against article creation, and we really need to move away from that mentality. We have long had articles on individuals who receive no more than a one-line mention in database entries and that is acceptable. Nevermind that an article on Trastevere could contain within it all the significant missions Ezio Auditore conducted in that area, including the assassination of Juan Borgia the Elder, and so it definitely would not be a one or two line article.

Third, I also fail to see how it would be "speculative". The name Trastevere, as you saw when you removed that link in "Database: Porta Settimiana‎" does appear at least once in Brotherhood used for that neighbourhood situated across the Tiber River. Even if it did not, we have never considered it speculative to map locations that appear within the sources to locations in the real-world and to refer to them by their real names if that name has does not overtly appear in the game. At most, the name would be "conjecture" based on using the real-world name for it in the absence of the name explicitly appearing within the source material. I think it's possible you might have thought "Trastevere" necessarily has to refer to the specific administrative district in modern-Rome, when it has also been a local and informal name for that urban area on the other side of the Tiber River.

Also while I am at it, because I think it is reasonable to determine that these link removals could have been disputable, I do not think they count as a minor edits.

I have decided against reverting those link removals because as of now, I also do not think the case is strong enough that "Trastevere" needs an article. It's possible I may change my mind later if I find that it is narratively significant as a district neighbourhood upon reviewing articles related to the Brotherhood-era. (Personally, it certainly felt that that was the case on my first playthrough).

I just did not feel comfortable with the reasons offered, that is all. I have noticed a tendency with a couple of editors to hastily prefer deletionism, to the extent of rejecting redirect pages where they are definitely warranted or would be helpful, hasty proposals for deletion, etc. when our wiki direction has been inclusionistic. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 07:34, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Fanon images

I thought I should probably clarify my current stance on the deletion of fanon images at the moment in case I forgot to do so before since you might be confused if occasionally I declined to delete an image that should seem to obviously warrant deletion.

After speaking with our former head admin, Master Sima Yi, it does not seem that there was ever a policy in place that actually forbade user-created art from being uploaded on our wiki. Moreover, it was a custom of the old team to create some original art for their own user pages. It was part of their community culture. Sima Yi also gave his personal opinion that he does not understand why it would be necessary to purge every art that had ever been created in the past, which I take came across as an inconsiderate act of extinguishing memories of their former community. As a result, I have been hesitant to enact such a purge, and I believe that erring on the side of safety is to refrain from doing so at this time.

Nonetheless, I recognize the need to clean-up unused and non-sensical images that are effectively no more than junk and spam. So my current stance includes the following points:

• We have a moratorium in place on the uploading of further fan-art for the foreseeable future.
• I will refrain from deleting fan-art or files currently in use on a user page, user talk page, or user blog for now unless it is inappropriate or has no relevance to Assassin's Creed, served no community purpose, and serves no purpose on the page.
• For old fan-art that belonged to a formerly prominent contributor or former staff, I will refrain from deleting those images at this time, to be reconsidered later.
• For old fan-art and poor images that belongs to current staff or currently active users, I will verify with those users first regarding them. I noticed that you and Darman have incidentally marked some files uploaded by Darkfeather, Xangr8, and Cristophorus for deletion, and I thought I might as well ask them about them first.
• I recommend that we rename fan-art currently being retained to indicate the user they belong to for better organization.
• Fan-art that is not currently in use on a user page, user talk page, user blog, user gallery etc. are liable for deletion (unless they belong to current staff, whom I would verify with first).
  • If they are related to Assassin's Creed, I might save it to my PC prior to deletion for archival purposes.
• Fan-made videos will be deleted even if they are currently in use on a user page, user talk page, user blog, etc. because I personally do not like users uploading a whole fan-made video on the wiki for the sake of promoting it. (A link would suffice if they wish to reference it).

Feel free to let me know if you have any questions. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 03:12, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Valkyrie Arena

I see you just made all the pages for the various battle simulations in Kára's Arena; nice! However, I had raised this question on the ACVMemory talk page, but didn't get a response, so before I go through adding links as ususal, I thought I'd ask you for starters. Since the Arena dialogue is Odin monologuing to an invisible audience of einherjar, with Kára occasionally calling out the same unsubtitled lines while any enemies remain voiceless, and because every match ends in his victory, could we merge all the Arena missions on one page, like we did the Papyrus Puzzles and Ainigmata Ostraka? – Darman (talk) 13:50, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Actually, never mind this. Just saw that each skirmish has its own description in the infobox, and there'd be no easy or visually-pleasing way to put them together with multiple tabs the way we could for dialogue or the various mysteries. Carry on! – Darman (talk) 13:55, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought the same thing. It'd be simpler if it were just the description or just whatever drivel Odin is saying, but with both of them it does throw a wrench in the works. - Soranin (talk) 14:06, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

"Relieve" vs. "relive"

I'm not sure if others have also been making this mistake, but the correct word to use for experiencing past memories is relive not relieve. Relieve means to be free of one's burden, to ease suffering, to let go, or to urinate. See the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, the Cambridge Dictionary, or Wiktionary. Also, I've been avoiding the word relive for Animus sessions entirely because I'm not sure if even that is technically correct since re- means 'again' and the Animus users are almost never experiencing those memories again but for the first time. The phrase 'relive one's memory' is common in English because in real-life, it is usually in the context of an individual experiencing an event similar to something they have already experienced before. But I'm not going to be that picky about this at the moment. Just make sure you don't keep on using relieve lol because it can mean to urinate. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 00:21, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Medal Reset?

Hello,

I asked Darman the same question and wanted to ask another admin. My Grand Master medal suddenly reset after I refresh and I'm back to 2 days. Did the something change or did I make a mistake? Just want to know. Batfan13 (talk) 20:58, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Morrigan pic

Hi Soranin,
I don't know if you still have the file on hand, but if you do, could you please reupload "[File:ACRogue - Ship Visual - Black Shadow figurehead.png]"? The damn automated FANDOMbot decided to delete the pic of Ubisoft's officially rendered game asset in June since it has naked breasts (horror!!! Yet, somehow it's OK if the breast shape is visible but the nipples are covered, as is the case with the Mermaid figurehead and its hair.) Thanks – Darman (talk) 00:05, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Chinese dynasty articles

Sora, I feel bad for having to lecture you about this, but your creation of the "Han dynasty" article is I think a good example of what appears to me to be rushing an article out for the sake of clearing its red-link, and I know you already understand that I've had previous concerns about that. The article contained multiple errors factual, grammatical, and typographical, including the wrong Chinese characters, and it doesn't look like it was written with a familiarity with the subject. It's a problem because I'm in the middle of non-wiki work right now and have had to take time off to immediately fix it. If you're anxious to clear out a red-link for an article about Chinese history, I would actually prefer you send me a message asking me to get right on it rather than rush it out yourself. Because then at least, I still have a little more room to make time for it in the day rather than having to immediately interrupt other work to correct it. I know it might seem like I didn't have to react right away, but I honestly think the mistakes this time necessitated it. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 03:30, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Writing feedback

Hello Sora, I have some feedback notes for you after your work creating Escape from the Puzzle Book articles yesterday, alongside a few other unrelated edits.

First, the wording "could be purchased at blacksmith shops" must absolutely be avoided in weapons articles. I have mentioned this numerous times to editors. It is extremely unnatural in any context outside of a video game and so qualifies as gameplay language. The practice originated in old editors thinking that they can change writing perspective from OOU to IU just from a simple tense shift. I noticed that you didn't exactly write the phrase itself, but you only changed the tense. This phrasing is so horrendous, it should be corrected whenever encountered.

With that out of the way, there are a number of ways that you writing could be improved, including the following:

• Never use contractions in formal writing. There's no exceptions to this unless you're quoting someone.
• In formal writing:
  • When a word is being mentioned not used, it should be italicized, regardless of whether it is an English word or a foreign word. (e.g. The word assassin is derived from the secret organization known as the Assassins.)
  • If a word is a foreign word which has not been loaned into English to the extent it is mainstream, it should be italicized.
  • If a word is both, of course you would italicize. (e.g. Joey recalled that animus was Latin for 'mind'.)
  • If you are mentioning a letter of an alphabet, use these specialized brackets ⟨ ⟩. Annoyingly, there's no way I know of to type them, so I always have to copy and paste them from Wikipedia's "Orthography" page. Do not use quotation marks in this case. (e.g. ⟨A⟩ not "A")
  • When giving the definition of a word, use quotation marks. I personally prefer using single quotation marks for this (e.g. 'mind') while using double quotation marks for actual quotes, but I don't remember off the top of my head if this is standardized in our wiki.
• There are some incidences of run-on sentences, which seems to me to be the result of overusing non-restrictive relative clauses.
• Incorrect punctuation usage, especially when it comes to commas, continue to pervade throughout your writing. This is a very common problem among all editors, but at a certain point, you might wish to consider learning the rules about them. They are actually quite strict. At the minimum, you should be able to recognize the difference between an independent clause and a dependent clause.
• There continues to be occasional confusion in correct English grammatical mood usage, but I think this is the hardest part of English, so I'm pretty lenient about that.

Other than this, it's important to remember that when writing the biographical entry of an individual, the point is to summarize the events in such a way that it is clear and concise for your audience. This means that you would at times have to provide contextual information to tie actions together naturally and better explain what's going on. If you're only stringing together actions one after another as they unfold in the story, it just becomes a list of characters' movements in prose form and becomes harder to understand. I remember you and I talked about this off-hand in years past, but a lot of plot summaries online for movies and TV show episodes are poorly written because of this.

In light of this, I also remain concerned that you were writing too hastily. There were also spelling errors punctuating the articles which seemed a little too numerous. So I think I need to lay it out firmly. When I cautioned on previous occasions against being too fixated on eliminating redlinks because they are redlinks not with the aim of supplying all needed wanted pages per se, the distinction may seem moot. But there's a crucial difference in how the attitude affects our contributions. My longstanding concern is that your approach ends up creating pages for the sake of reducing the quantity of redlinks rather than earnestly writing articles of sufficient quality. It's true that I may be too perfectionistic and take too long to publish articles, but articles being created should still meet a minimum level of quality, and I'm honestly not sure all the pages you have churned out do.

To the extent that your creation of new pages motivates me to correct them, it might be argued that we complement one another and that this is an efficient strategy for the wiki. That's why I looked the other way when you create articles on locations whose content is copied from database entries rather than putting them into your own words. Since this constitutes plagiarism, it technically should be totally prohibited (apart from being redundant since we already have the database entries then). But if I have time to revise them, then it is not a problem. The issue is that I might not always have that time because it does divert me away from my own projects for the wiki—which are far more critical than fulfilling all wanted pages—to have to proofread all of these pages for basic grammar, spelling, and syntax mistakes. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 18:33, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Hey Sol! Thanks for the resources, I'll be sure to take a closer look at them later :D

I noticed you mentioned about including the context for scenes relating to Sam and Malcolm and Rafee's death, but there isn't any in the book, actually. Sam and Malcolm's single scene is just Malcolm using the poe to control a tribe and almost killing Sam before the scene ends in a very short vision of Joey's. Meanwhile, Rafee's scene is him calling Faisal a traitor, Faisal striking first and, in the memory corridor, Faisal said "is it not possible that we are fighting for the same thing?" and Rafee saying he forgives Faisal immediately after.

I do admit I did rush the pages for Joey, Colm and Alera but I do wanna say that it didn't have anything to do with redlinks, cause if I didn't make any page, the number of redlinks would've stayed the same regardless. The reason for being hasty was kinda twofold: first because I wanted to finish this little project before my vacation time ended I had to travel back to the city I live in, especially cause the beginning of the year is the busiest time for statisticians in academia here (most meetings, conferences, etc, expect a full paper by may at the latest) and that's not even mentioning carnaval and the summer classes. The second reason is kind of what you mentioned, it takes less effort to edit a page than to go through the text outright and create one, so I wanted to have everything written down so the wiki could have the info from this title and people could help out in their own time, but with the info already available.

I'll probs be around very little these next couple of months (comparatively, at least), but you can still ping me on discord :) - Soranin (talk) 01:08, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification Sora. I had assumed that you created these articles to pre-empt them from eventually being redlinks in contrast to what has occurred with Dynasty-related subjects on my end. I'm happy to know that that wasn't the case though of course my advice against rushed articles in the future still stands.

I actually have a good solution to suggest. If you want to make sure that articles about subjects are immediately available to our visitors, but you don't have the time to write them to completion, you can scale back your immediate goal for the article content to the extent that you can make it well-written and presentable. For example, instead of trying to write out a whole biography section for a character, you can just write three or four lines covering the main ideas or a paragraph which can later serve as an introduction. Now, by main ideas, I don't just mean giving the individual's background and time period but the information that best captures what is significant about that character. What I'm trying to say is that a new article doesn't have to be complete, perfect, and comprehensive, but it does have to be presentable. It's better for a visitor to come across a new article and think "wow this is concisely put and understand what this is about, but I wish it gave more details—maybe they just haven't had the time to expand on it yet" as opposed to "wow this article has the whole story, but it's hard to read through and understand, and I'm not sure these wiki editors know how to write".

An example off the top of my head is the article "Chang'an", which only had three paragraphs when I first created it (but it could've been even shorter). Although it has been expanded since then, there is still a lot of missing details to it, including information on its layout and landmarks that were provided in the manhua's special volume. More details about the An Lushan Rebellion can also be provided, but it reads like a concise summary of events with proper grammar and syntax, so it can give the semblance to visitors that it is a finished article even if it is missing information.

Regarding the articles "Sam" and "Malcolm", I understand that the book is vague about the context, but I meant that there are writing techniques that can be employed to also make it clear that the context is intended to be vague. For instance, in the first sentence of the biography section in "Malcolm", you wrote:

"In the vision, Malcolm approached Sam, saying that Sam did not have to fear him before raising Vejovis' dagger and causing all of the people of their tribe to fall to their knees."

It would be better to write "Malcolm approached a man named Sam, telling him that he did not have to fear him. . ." The way it introduces Sam makes it sound like it is someone we should already know, like he has been mentioned before, implying context present in the book but missing here for our own readers. Likewise, you simply mention "their tribe" without an antecedent, which gives the impression we should already know that they live in a tribal society and have a tribe and what tribe that is or where they are in time and space. Not only would readers not know these things, they also wouldn't know that they're not supposed to know these things, that the vision is meant to be that vague, because the way it is written implies it is context omitted by the wiki editor rather than omitted by the author of the book. As well, usually, you should write an article about a character from their perspective, but in this case if all we know of Sam and Malcolm is Joey's vision of them, I would say it's also okay to instead describe them as how they appeared from Joey's perspective.

I understand you are going to be very busy, as we all are, so I don't mean to give you too much pressure. I just hope that this feedback can be helpful to your contributions in the future, so thanks for bearing with me. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 02:03, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

In-universe note

OOohh, very pretty template! Nicely done! This will most definitely make it easier to read separately from the dialogue text. Kind of reminds me of the Mail template that I've seen before in the Guild Wars 2 wiki. May I make a slight suggestion to perhaps lower the title font and increase the body font a bit? I find that the titles are larger than regular bold font and body text is smaller than standard site text when reading. Great job on the template nonetheless! – Darman (talk) 17:15, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! If I'm not misremembering, I modified a template the Bloodborne wiki uses for their item descriptions cause it looked pretty despite being very simple. I did just edit the sizes, brought the title from 18px to 16 and the text from 12px to 14px. - Soranin (talk) 01:46, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Hmm, I see. Thanks for adjusting it, the title/body text visually flows much better now with the size of the main page font. Now to just implement that everywhere after all that hassle to figure out how to format them. It never ends, lol. – Darman (talk) 23:30, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Chimera's Breath

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamethrower

The concept of throwing fire as a weapon has existed since ancient times. During the Peloponnesian War Boeotians used some kind of a flamethrower trying to destroy the fortification walls of the Athenians during the Battle of Delium.

Roman Empire [edit]
Main article: Greek fire
In 107 AD the Romans used a flamethrower against the Dacians, the device was similar to the one used at Delium.

—unsigned comment by 012345678901111aaaa (talk · contr) 01:22, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

As both Soranin and I have noted in our edit summaries a total of thrice now, the Russian WP page for Greek Fire has a {{Cite}} reference tag on the sentence about the flamethrower's purported chemical composition at the Battle of Delium. By extension, it would apply to the English page if it included the same information, which it does not. As well, unless I've misread it, the flamethrower only caused 200 deaths, not the 100% increase of 400 that you claim. The "Behind the scenes" section for "Chimera's Breath" discusses the ancient use of a flamethrower in a naval capacity like Greek fire, not a wheeled, fire-spitting wagon. – Darman (talk) 05:40, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Blackbeard Journal

You said that the book's font and use of Early Modern English's habitual capitalized proper nouns makes it a headache to read. I have a copy of it by my desk and keep forgetting to use it and have no problem reading it, so I can expand info and help you with this if you'd like. – Darman (talk) 01:00, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Oh, please do! It took me so long to do just those two little pages. - Soranin (talk) 13:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

:(

Why must you hurt me this way? Lacrossedeamon (talk) 03:05, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Because you harmed my eyesight first. Hurt people hurt people lol - Soranin (talk) 03:17, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Honestly I was going to go with .9 instead of .7 before previewing the change and seeing that it made the links almost unreadable. So really what you saw was me already restraining my fabulousness. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 04:21, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Mirage icons

Thanks for adding the Mirage skill icons! As you likely saw, I was in the process of doing so/correcting them myself, but you clearly are faster at it than I am. – Darman (talk) 23:50, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

:D - Soranin (talk) 00:10, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Somewhat related to this, though, I know that you just moments ago wiped the Mirage spoiler template from pages, but many of the characters, factions, and locations still need to be updated with the game info and are no longer marked. – Darman (talk) 04:00, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Echoes redlinks

Sorry for the handful of redlinks from the Mirage-focused Echoes transcripts, I know you abhor them. When I had written the drafts, I wasn't sure if the people would be mentioned by in-game characters or in its database entries, and clearly forgot to remove them. We can make pages for them if you still want, though. – Darman (talk) 23:25, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

I get it. I left a few in, the ones I thought we might have enough o that their pages wouldn't just be a single sentence each lol - Soranin (talk) 22:10, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

As much as the wiki's design makes sense for Shadows' red/black color theme, I slightly dislike it. Now I cannot tell if an edit-spamming new user I see in Recent Changes has a talk page. Good luck yourself in filtering out whether linked nouns/events are true redlinks or if they have pages!! *cackle* >:) – Darman (talk) 12:50, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Peace has been restored, thanks to basically everyone complaining about the red links lol - Soranin (talk) 03:44, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Curses, just when I was able to actually notice the red color differences! – Darman (talk) 04:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia

I notice you've been changing a large number of internal Wikipedia links here. Why are you going through the effort of this? In a past discussion on naming conventions, it was decided to try and avoid Wikipedia's common naming system because it would cause constant troubles if they changed page names, something I remembered when I asked about the "Siege of Diaoyu Castle" being renamed to "siege of Diaoyucheng". Unlike for here, do WP links really have to go to the exact page title(s) when their own redirects suffice? – Darman (talk) 16:15, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

It's for my own benefit mostly. I made a webscraper that collects all of our links to wikipedia pages. It serves three main purposes: first, it allows me to check what should be an internal link and change it; secondly, it allows me to check if a wikipedia link is broken (usually due to a typo); and lastly, it allows me to see if something was mentioned in more than 1 AC media or has a high number of links across the wiki, since no one can just remember everything off the top of their head and fandom's search function is kinda trash. However, in order to get an actual estimate of uses, the links have to be the same and that's why I was trying to keep consistency in the links. - Soranin (talk) 16:27, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Aveline insignia

Remember the talk we had back in Oct about the Louisianan Assassins' insignia? It might not be fanart as we thought: while looking at archived Ubiworkshop pages to try and get refs, I came across a hoodie with that exact art. Since the workshop was run by Ubisoft, wouldn't that make it official? – Darman (talk) 02:15, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh, that's great! I don't know if we can call it official per se, but it is not fan art for sure :D – Soranin (talk) 00:34, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Per your Discord posts/pics, we've now identified this image! It's a veve dedicated to Erzulie, Haitian vodou spirits associated with femininity. Btw, if they haven't been told yet, the French and Russian sites should be made aware that the "logo" is still fan art. Outside Ubi's pic, I can't seem to find a credible source confirming that as the veve's design. The New York Public Library has a nice pic, but it's not an exact match, and I'd imagine that magic symbols would have some sort of standardization lest practitioners accidentally summon/spell something unintended. – Darman (talk) 16:25, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I thought we already knew it was the vèvè for Erzulie Frèda all this time. I've for sure seen it used before elsewhere, I recall at least one old hidden object game that had it, as well as 2 different comics from Vertigo, Dominique Laveau: Voodoo Child and House of Whispers. And on the standardization of images such as these, I can't speak for vèvè but for the ponto riscado in Umbanda, it varies a lot from place to place and usually the intent matters more than the ability to draw, considering it's usually made in chalk or white powder. I checked a book I have with various version of the diagrams and also could not find an exact match among the 27 different ones they have for her, but many share motifs that are present in the one we have. - Soranin (talk) 18:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Syndicate dates

Turns out, The Illustrated Police News was a real paper, not just a made-up media for promotion, though Studio Lounak's Syndicate headlines are obvs fake. All 6 images have dates on them. I can't tell now, but do you think we could use them to more accurately place a few memories beyond just "1868"? – Darman (talk) 03:25, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Magic

Ready for another round of image sourcing, with twice the pics than last time? I was thinking we could do the same division of the alphabet as before. – Darman (talk) 22:05, 20 June 2024‎ (UTC)

The twice the pics is the fault of Wizards of the Coast, who said they would update their image database daily, but instead just dropped everything after the previews were done :p But sure, we can do the same division, I'm just gonna take a bit longer cause I want to finish stealing the cards' text from scryfall before starting. - Soranin (talk) 15:03, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

RIP. No problem. I'll be a bit longer because I'm busy but will do later today. – Darman (talk) 15:40, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Was looking over the cards again, and I think I influenced the flavor text for the Leap of Faith? The card series was announced in Oct 2022, but I edited the Leap page in March 2021, changing the quote from Perotto Calderon's feelings mid-Leap to Hytham explaining its purpose. – Darman (talk) 05:50, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Took longer than we hoped, but the images are finally sourced. =_= Now to bed. – Darman (talk) 23:40, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Time to upload the 86 full images I managed to find :) jk - Soranin (talk) 00:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

NOOOOOO! You're too cruel. – Darman (talk) 02:40, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Rebellion Events

Hello new admin Soranin!
Congrats on your promotion! How did you do that/why are you Staff now? (Just curious. Not that I want to know so I can attain such powers myself. I don't think Sol would entirely trust me and am skeptical of even myself). Anyways, the purpose of this message is this: as you recently added to the memory pages, the "Caribbean Sea, 1713 CE" and "Naples, 1499 CE" missions have actual names. I wonder, though, can/should we move them? While they're unnamed in-game, I'd say that Ubisoft has "officially" titled them, even if the info is hidden in Rebellion's files—great job finding them, I wouldn't know where to look myself. – Darman (talk) 00:10, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Official announcement should be coming soon, but it really just was saying yes when they asked lol. On the Rebellion stuff, I feel like we shouldn't move them, but maybe we should just create a talk page and ask the others. - Soranin (talk) 03:39, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Link scraping

I'm not sure if this is beyond your capabilities, but I was thinking about your Wikipedia webs scraper earlier and wonder if there's a way to do similar here but with templates. Is there a way to filter out links "[https://Artstation.com like this]" as opposed to the "on [https://www.SITE.com|SITE]" style in templates like {ArtStation}, {Twitter}, etc? – Darman (talk) 16:10, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

In theory, it should be possible. I would start with a list from the dev team category, pop off the list those that already have the template, and see who's left that has the link. I should be able to get a rough version of it in October. - Soranin (talk) 17:46, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought there must be a way to filter out Template transclusions, but Special:WhatLinksHere either cannot do that or I've overlooked what to click to implement it. I'm also not much of a code junkie, so things like Lacrosse's DynamicPageList (currently called "Reflist tracker") go over my head. Don't feel any pressure to do that right now. While it'd be useful, it's more a "maintenance" thing than "page/image contributions". – Darman (talk) 02:50, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Found something that makes the link scraping not needed, since we're trying to trade free links to template ones. - Soranin (talk) 14:39, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Ah, thank you, this should make it easier. I've used the Special:Links page before but must have missed the line about using * as a wild card. Do you know how/why using it differs from if I had searched with "http://www" before the rest of the address? – Darman (talk) 23:00, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

I believe that by using the asterisk you get all possible starts, like "www.", "http://www", "https://www", "https://[the link without www]", etc. - Soranin (talk) 02:43, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Right, that's what a wild card does, substitute for variables. Sorry, I was unclear. Rather, how does it filter out the template? It still uses "https", one of the variables it replaces, and some plain links also exist like that. – Darman (talk) 23:40, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Oh, no clue. :p - Soranin (talk) 13:20, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Logging this here since I think it's somewhat related to the subject line, but I have an unusual question. I belatedly realized that EOH might have had another logo when doing its Gangsters of the Seas season for Skull and Bones. I can see a 400x400 image here via the shortlink lnk.to/echoesofhistory, which as of writing strangely still uses it as the icon, but I'm unsure if it ever was the header image for Spotify. All title cards are still stored on i.scdn.co/image/[ALPHANUMERIC CHARACTERS] or as spotify-master-storage-image/image/[ALPHANUMERIC CHARACTERS] in the XML, and I've found that they all share most of the same string: ab6765630000ba8a878786745694074f9c7f83d1 (original), ab6765630000ba8a0dd1ad2835383b0931de3d11 (EOH rebrand), and ab6765630000ba8a1a24cf02a0f932ddb0239a55 (History Hit partnership). I'd imagine the theoretical Gangsters-style one would be somewhere between d11 and a55, but with 36 characters (0-9, a-z) to place across 24 possible locations, that's...far too many permutations for me to consider. =.= Do you think there's some way like Lacrosse did with a Dynamic List to see every combination that does have an image with it as opposed to a "This XML file does not appear" message? Not expecting you to solve this, to be clear! I'm trying to search "ab6765630000ba8a*" on Web Archive when Gangsters was airing from Jan – March 2024, but haven't had any luck yet, though it depends on if the image was even saved at all. – Darman (talk) 02:55, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Haven't tried crawling this before, I'd need to test it. In the meanwhile, I think this should help with the web archive searches, though it only caches the first 10,000 links with that start. Happy hunting? (x_x) – Soranin (talk) 03:40, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that's the exact Archive link I've gradually been trawling through, but thank you. The one "positive" here is that I should(?) only need to look at the ones sporadically captured over the first months of 2024. You don't need to test it, though I admit I greatly appreciate your offer. I'm just wondering if running the combinations is possible, even if an extremely far-fetched idea. A 400x400 pic could do in the meantime, will upload later once off work. – Darman (talk) 06:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Ezio armor images

To paraphrase Vader, "I find your lack of [uploaded image categories] disturbing." XP – Darman (talk) 18:20, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Oh ooops, completely slipped my mind :P - Soranin (talk) 02:36, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

The armor categories are fixed now. Btw, as an aside, be careful with names in the Echoes pages you make. You tend to accidentally refer to people by their clan names instead of their given names, e.g., saying "Oda marched his troops", likely meaning Nobunaga by the page context, but also not specifying who from among an entire clan. It's like using "Kenway" when meaning just one person except there's a family line behind them. – Darman (talk) 18:15, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Page lock

As a new admin, do you think you could lock the editing settings for "Monarchy"? It's been targeted for ~1½ months now by sockpuppets spamming multiple edits. – Darman (talk) 19:45, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Locked it for a month, but can always renew it if it's needed. Sorry I took a bit, I was busy all day yesterday. – Soranin (talk) 22:07, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Honestly, I hadn't noticed a "delay" since I was elsewhere at the time anyway. Thanks for that, though. Seems you'll have to update your blog since BatAlex clearly isn't done yet (unless it's a new person?). I think autoconfirmed users would have sufficed, since locking to admins only limits it to a handful of people who all have preoccupying big projects (Sol with Dynasty, you with weapons, Kyashira with Odyssey/Mirage, etc.), but since you're Staff, I won't question your decision and trust you had reason for it. – Darman (talk) 22:25, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Was tracking this as well. I was torn on the last edit as it technically was fine I think. Do we think it should be a blanket revert on all sockpuppet activity even if the edit is constructive or should reverts be more a case by case basis even as we ban the editor? Lacrossedeamon (talk) 03:18, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

When it comes to our long-time friend's edits, I rather undo their work immediately rather than let pass their usual absurdities for the rare case where something is technically fine. Not like we can't re-add them in, if case be. – Soranin (talk) 13:13, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Per the topic headline, can we also lock Germain, too? This incessant nonsense with the insistence that the French Templars alone were somehow particularly corrupt for their close proximity to nobility when puppeting them been a defining trait of all Rites is irritating to have to watch and repeatedly undo. But maybe perhaps not so hard a lock on it as with Monarchy. – Darman (talk) 03:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

RPG book art

With all the stuff that you and Lacrosse (and RealBearZ?) are doing regarding the RPG Manual and its changes between promo/beta versions, do the book or app ever specifically say who did all the character/item profile art? I'd imagine there'd be some sort of credit in the book's first or last pages, e.g. "Remko Troost: 1, 2, 3, etc.", and for the app presumably in some sort of developer credits? – Darman (talk) 02:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh boy, I wish! I couldn't find any credits in the app and the credits in the books not only don't specify who did what, they are also identical for the 3 volumes:

COVER AND ASSASSINS ART: Antonio De Luca & Quadra Studio (Federica Costantini, Mauro Alocci, Andrea Tentori Montalto)
ART: Ubisoft
ADDITIONAL ART: Saeed Jalabi, Anastasia Komissarova, Phil Moss and Grim Moon Studio (Alessandro Paviolo, Giulia Gentilini, Jacopo Barettin, Roberto Spadaro, Samuele Bandini, Melissa Spandri, Vincenzo Pratticò, Ivana and Abbate under the direction of Angelo Peluso)

The rest of the rpg game is also a mess, so it doesn't really surprise me that the credits are too :/ - Soranin (talk) 14:34, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

[sigh] At least there's a list of names to parse through if they ever decide/get clearance to post their art online? From a quick glance, most of the artists have ArtStation or other social media profiles. – Darman (talk) 14:40, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Timeline and user blog

I know they're on user pages, but can we delete both "King Deadpool the Awesome"'s Timeline and AbsnerJr's blog post "Mind If I Archive This?" that holds an old copy of the "Assassination" page as it written before your April 2021 rewrite? I keep seeing both when using Special:WhatLinksHere for a number of places/names and I see no reason to keep either of them. Deadpool's timeline has a number of what are now redirects, the subpage is all they made, and they have not returned to update it, much less edit anything else. Meanwhile, although AbsnerJr asked that no one edit their blog, the post is not needed since the main page already has a history log that admins could use to revert to previous versions, and they strangely locked the post to admin edits only, preventing even themselves from updating it any further. – Darman (talk) 14:30, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Oidipous vs Vesta

Please stop reverting changes on Oidipous. Quest dialogue makes it clear that the individual went insane and is not actually trans. If anything, it is a reference to the movie Psycho (1960). Would you also consider Norman Bates to be trans? —unsigned comment by TruthSeeker87 (talk · contr) 22:09, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Definitely not a reference to the movie Psycho. I don't think it matter that why the character identifies as the other gender just that they do. Also mentions of infamia and especially reference to Hermaphroditus imply some form of non-binary which would fall under trans. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 03:05, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

"Infamia" only meant a bad reputation. The son of a whore, as is the case here, would clearly fall under the definition of "infamia". The loose reference to Hermaphroditus does not mean Oidipous is trans. Hermaphrodites, by definition, are not trans; they are intersex. The dialogue of the quest references Oidipous as male.

• He laughed, called me androgynous, son of the goddess of love and her messenger.

• Bayek: Hmm, woah. Vesta was not a prostitute but the forgotten son of one."

• Sminthos: Bayek! Did you find the killer?
• Bayek: Yes. The son of a prostitute. When his mother died, terrible grief overtook him. He believed her ka would not let him rest until he found his father.
• Sminthos: He's dead?
• Bayek: I am sorry, Mouse. He could not be reasoned with. I have his letters, the story they tell is a tragic one.
• Sminthos: Poor boy, such sadness.

Please provide one source that states Oidipous identified as trans, otherwise stop the revert war. —unsigned comment by TruthSeeker87 (talk · contr) 07:08, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

From my experience intersex individuals mostly do not identify as cis-gendered (Soranin please jump in here and chastise me if I am talking out my ass on this topic). Your evidence seems to be the words of characters who last I checked did not confirm the personal gender identification; my evidence is the character in question never using the name Oidipous themself. At least 3 users have brought issue with your edit. You are the one revert warring. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 08:12, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Now you are claiming he is intersex. Whether an individual identifies as "cis-gendered" or not, where is the evidence this character identified anything other than male? Where is the evidence any other character identified him as anything other than male? He only alluded to (but did not explictly name) Hermaphroditus and it was in comparison to him being the son of the "goddess of love and her messenger" (not to mention each murder note is dripping in hyperbole). Again, please provide any source, either inside or outside the game, that identifies this person as trans or even intersex, as you now claim. I have provided multiple examples of the character being referred to in the masculine directly in game. I am not understanding this obsession with assigning this person as trans with no evidence. TruthSeeker87 (talk) 14:25, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

RE: ACRPG

No problem! I'll take a look at the people of Animus Handbook and see what I can do. Thanks! Batfan13 (talk) 06:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

Federico database

Related to Database: Federico Auditore. You said it had to be a transcript, I put my evidence in the wiki then moved it to here. It is in the game, [:File:20250218 165836.jpg|here]'s that picture —unsigned comment by Coreyg1423 (talk · contr) 22:23, 18 February 2025‎ (UTC)

Thank you for the correction, sometimes even Admins can miss things. – Darman (talk) 22:30, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

Yeah I know I added the proof to the wiki but removed it because I did not wanna make it vandalism so I putted it in talk, I am quite new at editing wikis. —unsigned comment by Coreyg1423 (talk · contr) 22:38, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

ACRPG memory BTS sections

Can you review these plus my notes left in the editor comments and give me your thoughts? Feel free to poll discord I just don't have access to it currently. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 23:10, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Soranin Get Your Gun

Congrats on being the fourth—and likely last—person to earn the Animus Addicted badge! Speaking as the person who earned the third one, making 500 timeline edits takes a lot of time and work, especially if one were to then aim for a repeat of it. ;) – Darman (talk) 00:35, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

Nakhshab and others

Hey Sora,
Noticed you keep removing info on articles of "mentioned only" stuff I've been adding. If it makes the articles flow better that's all good, but shouldn't the context behind the mention be present. In the case of Nakhshab, I had the context of where/why the city was mentioned. As was the case with Mikkeli and Weeksville (those ones had mention of their Database entries). Don't want to sound confrontational, but I am just generally curious -- shouldn't context and more info be a good thing?
Cheers, Vilka. VilkaIsBack (talk) 00:05, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

Hey, Vilks. So the thing is, context is important but should add something about the subject of these pages. You'll notice that all these cases I removed focus on the people who were born there rather than the place itself. There is no additional information about the location when I say that "at some point some person said that X person was born there", it's just repetition of information that is already in the page. - Soranin (talk) 01:50, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

Makes sense, thanks for clearing that up. VilkaIsBack (talk) 01:58, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

Shadows database

Curse you for making so many new entries, AGAIN (JK). Links done. – Darman (talk) 04:25, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Another set linked. Guess more will come with Summer roadmap? – Darman (talk) 16:50, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

Plural nouns

I'm confused, why is it plural Staves instead of singular Staff (Apple, Ring, etc.)? I had asked Sol about this on the Crystal Skulls talk page and he said that Sima et al had—in his view—erroneously pluralized all the page titles at time of their creation. Did I misread something in the Manual? – Darman (talk) 23:25, 3 July 2025 (UTC)

Story of a Samurai

Why did you delete this [Story of a Samurai|page]? MrWii000 (talk) 00:05, 13 July 2025 (UTC)

If I may interrupt here, it was because it was an empty memory page, as Soranin clearly explained on your own talk page. Despite this warning being issued ~7hrs ago, I see that you persisted in creating nearly a dozen more similar pages, each also lacking sufficient information beyond their name, though I will leave judgement up to Soranin, seeing as I am not Staff. – Darman (talk) 00:50, 13 July 2025 (UTC)

Incomplete Shadows memories that I need help in finishing

• A Chance Encounter
• Temple Stories
• Restless Spirits
• The Lost Envoys
• Darkness Falls
• The Peasant Who Would Be King
• Topple the Traitor
• Story of a Samurai
• Story of a Young Boy
• Story of a Shinobi
• Out of the Shadows

MrWii000 (talk) 22:35, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

It's Me, Batfan13

This is Batfan13. Batfan13 (talk) 00:54, 10 September 2025 (UTC)

Edward Kenway's fleet

Hi, sorry) apologies if I'm doing this wrong. I'm wondering why my edit to Edward Kenway's fleet page was removed with notes saying out of universe. The table list the in game stat's for ships in AC4. Is the wiki only for lore related info? -WasabiBurger Wasabiburger (talk) 14:03, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, this wiki is meant more for lore. More game-y stuff like that is relegated to mostly 2 sections, either statistics (for weapons and gear) or "behind the scenes", which is where I moved your table to. - Soranin (talk) 13:18, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

Kakushiba Ikki edit war

Hi Soranin. We appreciate your intervention as an administrator with decision-making authority. I felt the editor's argument for translating it as “隠し場一揆” was completely unreasonable, but I gave up because I realized further edit wars would actually cause trouble for the majority. As you says, unless UBI provides a clear kanji representation, this edit war is inaccurate, so there's no need to force it onto the Wiki. But should we even remove the Japanese-language term “Katashuu (裹刀衆, literal translation: League of the Hidden Blade)”? While it's true that this is an English-language wiki and there's no need to include localized terms used only in the Japanese version, I'd like to ask for your thoughts if you have any.

I apologize if the text seems strange, as I'm using machine translation.—unsigned comment by Wakuredjp (talk · contr) 06:05, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

I apologize for any inconvenience caused by my unfamiliarity with using the wiki features. -- Wakuredjp (talk) 06:09, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

Hello there :)

The 裹刀衆 part was removed because the term was not used in the original (English) version of the game and we do not by and large add the localized terms on the header paragraphs. You'll notice, for example, that we did also not include additional translations for the Parisian or Chinese brotherhoods on their pages. If we discuss translation differences, it's usually done in the "Behind the scenes" sections, like in the page for Shao Jun. - Soranin (talk) 13:27, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

Hello!

I've learned how to sign my name. Thank you for the detailed explanation.

He keeps making bad edits, and it seems he doesn't know the Japanese rule of rendaku(連濁). Since I realized from the previous comment that he was editing with incorrect knowledge and conviction, if he edits again, I will revert it back to Soranin's version. - Wakuredjp (talk) 09:56, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

Memory appearances

Why are we re-adding the appearances parameter in memory infoboxes? Based on the discussion in both Template:Location and Template:Memory, I was under the impression that we had the go-head to remove them since Lacrosse feels they're outdated styling and wants to use the ref format instead. – Darman (talk) 15:10, 11 November 2025 (UTC)

I feel like changes in how we approach templates that are transcluded in more than 3500 pages need a little bit more discussion than just lacrosse asking if we should remove it and being ignored. I, for one, didn't even know this was a discussion we were having and lacrosse himself didn't even bring it up again (though with how many talk pages he starts, I think he just forgot about this one lol). Until a discussion is held, I'm trying to keep all pages consistent. - Soranin (talk) 15:27, 11 November 2025 (UTC)

Mirage database

Once again, I'm hot on your heels after page creation. All done! – Darman (talk) 08:50, 19 November 2025 (UTC)

<3 - Soranin (talk) 14:12, 19 November 2025 (UTC)

"Iron Dragon" vs. dragoon

For the record, dragoon is not a misspelling. "Iron Dragon" is the name of the weapon and dragoon is the correct spelling for the type of weapon that it is. "The Iron Dragoon Pistol" is the name given in the purchase description of the DLC. MudSnow (talk) 22:18, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

It is a mispelling because the item is not named that in-game. - Soranin (talk) 22:34, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Here is an image of the real-life gun the game weapon is based on. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/shoot-to-kill--211174962896473/ A dragoon was a shorter type of blunderbuss gun which preceded the short-barrel shotgun. It was often carried by mounted cavalry soldiers, who were also sometimes called dragoons. BTW, you misspelled misspelling. MudSnow (talk) 22:39, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

If I may briefly interrupt, an unsourced Pinterest post is FAR from being of sufficient quality for a reference. As I also said in my own edit comments, this site does not use Steam names for its pages. And there is no need to be pedantic about another's typos, it does not help curry favor with them when trying to present your case. – Darman (talk) 23:55, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Additionally, your statement about dragoons using a specific weapon still must be cited per the Manual of Style's standards, whether it is "common sense" or not, and writing that same blurb onto your user page does not make it any more factual, instead coming across to me as being petty. – Darman (talk) 00:10, 25 November 2025 (UTC)

The gun in the photo is a handmade antique, and obviously the one that inspired the design of the one in the DLC. The artwork on the gun is almost an exact copy. https://shared.fastly.steamstatic.com/store_item_assets/steam/apps/324331/ss_b19c51226a01fff0df59160c2165b0d2eb7fb043.1920x1080.jpg. MudSnow (talk) 01:24, 25 November 2025 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_(firearm) just want to throw this in here. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 00:54, 25 November 2025 (UTC)

AC4 has another dragon/dragoon just called "The Dragoon". MudSnow (talk) 01:30, 25 November 2025 (UTC)

After a reverse-search, for which I had to filter out many unsourced Pinterest reposts, the image seems to originate from this discussion on the "Ethnographic Arms & Armour" forums in April 2013. That is before Unity's 2014 release, but its development began in 2010 and we cannot prove it inspired the game asset. However, I feel we are getting off topic, which was that Unity's game files specifically called the weapon "Dragon", therefore, it is Steam that misnamed it in their package. As Lacrosse points out, though, "dragon" was the name of a firearm used by the mounted soldiers referred to as Dragoons. – Darman (talk) 05:35, 25 November 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for finding those photos. If you take a minute to compare the pattern of swirls and diamonds on the handle, you will see the game weapon is a nearly identical copy of one of those, with a few added details from the other one. Those were decorated by hand, so it may be the only one like it in existence.

Steam didn't write the description, so if it's wrong, that's on the game publisher. And also in the game it's called a type of "rifle", and that error is clearly on the game designers. And they may have also named "The Dragoon" incorrectly. What I know for sure is that the DLC for sale didn't match the DLC on this website. MudSnow (talk) 06:27, 25 November 2025 (UTC)

If you can find an auction listing or museum reference number for the IRL weapon we could at list link that in a BTS section. But yeah Pinterest and forum post are not going to cut it. It seems like "dragon" and "dragoon" are both viable spellings but the former is more prevalent. I think in game it is upscaled to full blunderbuss size so while the IRL gun is a pistol what Arno uses is larger so would possibly fall under "rifle", especially if we look at it from a musketoon angle rather than blunderbuss. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 04:39, 26 November 2025 (UTC)