Talk:Qabiha

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Death in February 865 ?

I know that Mirage doesn't give an explicit date after the training in Alamut but we can delimit the ending base on some information:

-In the database, Alamut is completed in 865. During the last mission, we saw that Alamut is still in construction.

-Other info, a historical event, or maybe lack, the Siege of Baghdad. It began in March 865 and lasted a year. The last mission in Baghdad can't be further than March 865 as we don't see the siege

-The presence of Wasif in Baghdad. I know that historically he died in 867. But he had a role in the siege of Baghdad. Historically, the Caliph Al-Musta'in stayed in Samarra until early 865, fearing riots from the Turks. He arrived with Wasif in Baghdad in February 865.

-Al-Mutazz liberation: historically, Al Mutazz was liberated by the Turks after Al-Musta'in went to Baghdad to recognize him as the caliph.

-Qabiha negotiated her son's claim to the throne to prevent the civil war. Once again a proof that it happened before the siege. We can imagine that with her death, Al-Mutazz didn't respect the deal provoking the Abbasid civil war and the siege of the city.

Then, we can assume that the last section of the game occurred during February 865, from the death of Wasif and the confrontation in the Palace.Francesco75 (talk) 18:06, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, although there are numerous anachronisms, the dating of the Siege of Baghdad should take precedence over all other historical dates, like Wasif's actual death. The game's story clearly is set just before the Fifth Fitna, and we should be using that as the main point of reference. I don't know if we can make an assumption so precise as down to the exact month though. With Wasif's date of death in Assassin's Creed being moved, it's easy to imagine that the historical timing of his presence in Baghdad no longer bears much weight. After all, he was supposed to have fled to Baghdad with al-Musta'in, but al-Musta'in does not appear to be in town during the events of Mirage. I'm open to looking at this more closely. I would also add that we should have real, authoritative sources to back up for these dates as opposed to just relying on Wikipedia, and whatever we decide, we need to provide a footnotes explaining our logic. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 20:49, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

We had other hints. In Judge and Executioner, The resignation of Abu Abadallah is signed to the 11 Shawwal. We don't have the year but I used a calendar convertor for the year 864, the 11 Shawwal was the 15 November. For 862 it was in December and 863 it is also the month of November. And for 865 it is after the siege.

Ibn Tahir also asked if Basim is twenty. At the beginning he is 17, in 864 he would be 20 years old (even if for me the age of Basim is an issue to debate. In Golden City, he is a master at 23, younger than Altaïr, and in Valhalla he would be 28, and he look much older) His first year of birth was 835, but he would be too old for the event in Mirage. I think 840 for his birth could be a good balance but it is another debate.Francesco75 (talk) 22:58, 2 February 2024 (UTC).

I don't think there's enough supporting evidence for us to put down a specific month. I agree that it has to be between November 864 and March 865, but I'm against saying it was February based on the current evidence. - Soranin (talk) 11:53, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Does the beginning of the game give both a date and Basim's age as 17? I don't remember. If I do recall correctly, Tahir only guesses that Basim is around 20 when they meet, but Basim never verifies it. Basim does look much too old in Valhalla to be 28. He even looks much too old in Mirage to be 20 after the training sequence. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 17:47, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

As I recall, Basim's age was mentioned in a stream prior to the game's release. - Soranin (talk) 18:10, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Let's try to find that stream. And do you guys know what was the older source for an earlier birth date of 835? Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 22:43, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NItuwkpeftw. In this video, it is state that Basim met Roshan in 852, which respect what said the narrative director in the first reveal. Basim is 17 and it took place 20 years before Valhalla. I think they must have change plans and cut some part of the story, beginning with the death of the caliph and using a lot of prerendered cutscenes for the training and the targets. Sometimes I found that the game rush about the atrocities of the Order, for Al-ghul we don't see them, WE are told about. Maybe in the first scenario, the end was after the siege of the city, as Wasif and Qabiha were alive at this time. I think they had shortered the story for the release.Francesco75 (talk) 23:11, 5 February 2024 (UTC)