Talk:Noob

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Gender

In Assassin's Creed: Initiates the Abstergo Entrainment employee said that Abstergo Entertainment research analyst is the noob, so does that mean he's a he. --Cococrash11 (talk) 19:04, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Is "noob" masculine? Stormbeast ♉ ^{The Helpful Place} 19:16, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Jennifer Tam said John is calibrating his Animus. --Cococrash11 (talk) 19:18, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe she meant John was calibrating his own Animus. Powerslave13 (talk) 20:48, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

No, the John character is fiddling with PC's Animus workstation. But she says "Your Animus" not "his Animus". They're deliberately wrote the modern day dialogue to omit gender references. Yes, it makes for awkward dialogue, or even a monologue in fact, but there you go. --Kainzorus Prime ^{Walkie-talkie} 20:51, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Well, John did say that the analyst has a "tender body" when you finally met him. Not something you'd really say to a guy. Regards, Lvdoomien (talk) 02:27, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

Merge

With [R-L]. --Kainzorus Prime ^{Walkie-talkie} 20:58, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Don't merge with R-L let R-L's information transfer into Abstergo Entertainment research analyst --Cococrash11 (talk) 02:57, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

R-L

Where does it said the name is R-L. --Cococrash11 (talk) 23:46, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

It comes up on multiple occassions if you look around. Look in the menu's and such. RedKorss 00:14, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

R-L

Seriously where in the world did the name R-L come from. --Cococrash11 (talk) 07:55, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

Real life. ;) Sadelyrate (siniath) 10:26, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

So is R-L the official name in the game. --Cococrash11 (talk) 00:58, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think so, the two names i've heard used are "Employee" and "Noob" so I get why they didn't use those.Gboy4 (talk) 09:46, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

A bit of clarification on how the name R-L ties to the main character would be nice. So far, I'm leaning towards "Noob", funny as it may be, since that's the only name we know this person by. ~ GI Auditore ^{Comms Channel} 10:33, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

If we're going to use "R-L" then this should have a conjecture tag on it. Personally, I would prefer a more professional, more boring, and not so short name such as "Unnamed Abstergo Entertainment employee". --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 10:50, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

Why not just go with "Research Analyst"? Isn't that who we've been repeatedly told we're playing in the Modern Day parts? Sadelyrate (siniath) 12:49, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

That would work. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 12:54, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

Gender

I'm with Maxattac, think it's safe to assume R-L is female, given that John chose her body as Juno's host, and does indeed make some flattering comment on her body in the final modern-day segment (I can't remember specifically what he said, but it was something I doubt a married reincarnation of Aita would say about a man). I think we need to draw a line between logical conclusions and speculation. Makao the Byzantine {T/\L|<} 11:41, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Until canonically verified, R-L should remain genderless, imo. Another man's logic is another man's folly? ;) Sadelyrate (siniath) 13:43, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Sade. While the "slender body" does sort of point towards a woman, I believe the cry of pain when R-L is stabbed with the syringe sounds quite masculine (could've been John though, I wasn't too sure) so... For now, genderless seems the safest. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 13:46, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

I guess, although it does seem odd that he'd want to put his wife from another life's mind/spirit/soul/whatever you want to call it into a man's body. Makao the Byzantine {T/\L|<} 13:47, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

I wonder if the First Civ folk would be inclined to even tell the human genders apart that much... Or if it might've mattered at all outside of reproductive purposes. Sadelyrate (siniath) 13:51, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Well, biologically, the TWCB and humans aren't that different. They both have separate genders, who look fairly similar. So I suppose they might. Makao the Byzantine {T/\L|<} 14:22, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Image from Initiates

As far as this image is concerned, the main character appears to be male. The part I'm referring to is "Ugh, I also saw John from IT calibrating his Animus Workstation." ~ GI Auditore ^{Comms Channel} 10:33, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

When the gender of an individual is unidentified, it is common practice to use the masculine when referring to said individual (in the third person) for the sake of ease. A single mention of the word "his" isn't enough to confirm gender. As for the argument that Aita wouldn't want to place Juno inside a male's body; the guys been looking for her for 80,000 years, so I don't think a little thing like the sex of the host's body is going to make much difference to him. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 10:54, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

Personally, I don't get why male-specific terms are used when the gender is unknown, especially when gender-neutral terms such as "they" or "them" are available (makes me think of sexism tbh). But you never know, if the employee happens to be male, Juno may just happen to desire a bit of hawt man-on-man action in her next body. Slate Vesper (talk) 00:31, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

You raise a valid argument, Jasca, but keep in mind - the gender may be unidentified to us, but it's not to these employees. In the same message, Jennifer says she caught a glimpse of the Noob. Pretty sure she'd be able to at least tell if it was a guy or a girl. ~ GI Auditore ^{Comms Channel} 10:59, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

You're working on the assumption that the player character isn't some sort of cross-dresser and that this Jennifer may well have simply mistaken their sex... we don't assume things here. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 11:39, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough XD ~ GI Auditore ^{Comms Channel} 11:40, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

Title

The title should be simply be re-named to Subject 18. The Title is too long and Desmond Miles was known subject 17, not the research analyst.MB543 (talk) 12:20, November 23, 2013 (UTC)MB543

No, it shouldn't. This research analyst is not part of the Animus Project, he is part of the Sample 17 Project. And even if that was not the case, if he is not called Subject 18, then labelling him as such can only be considered fan fiction. Also take into consideration that this research analyst is not an Animus subject whatsoever, but a researcher, and he is most definitely not the first and only one working there. -- Master Sima Yi _Talk 12:32, November 23, 2013 (UTC)

RL?

What does it mean? Pickleseller ^Talk 21:58, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

It's the initials of the research analyst we played in ACIV. His/her actual name are not known, unfortunately. Nesty ^{Contact me!} 22:50, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

Nesty, where is it said that R-L is our research analyst? I never noticed that in the game. (also, there are notes in some of the database entries attributed to an R-L, would that also be our main character? I didn't think he (or she) had anything to do with those) Crook ^{The Constantine District} 23:11, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

True, I've been reviewing all of ACIV's cutscenes and  not a single R-L... --AgentG231 (talk) 00:11, November 30, 2013 (UTC)

It actully makes sense the way his notes are written. RedKorss 01:04, November 30, 2013 (UTC)

Please elaborate why. Slate Vesper (talk) 01:06, November 30, 2013 (UTC)

Just that he seems to have been there and done what they are talking about. Also the fact that we never hear about anyone who's name starts with an 'R' Please do go over the things that pop up when in the Animus and read their conversations. Seems rather obvious to me.RedKorss 01:29, November 30, 2013 (UTC)

I have been over them, but since nothing's been confirmed, it may just be another employee chiming in on the database entries. Slate Vesper (talk) 18:56, December 1, 2013 (UTC)

So Abstergo Entertainment research analyst got replaced by R-L and there isn't even a shred of evidence of the term R-L and then you all decided to rename it back. What gives. --Cococrash11 (talk) 00:24, November 30, 2013 (UTC)

Cococrash, the wikia is run by human people. Human people make mistakes, so don't blast us for not getting it right immediately :/ Still haven't gotten an answer, so I am curious who decided R-L was the research analyst. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 01:11, November 30, 2013 (UTC)

They should get it right. I keep saying where the name come from but they ignored me and then when I re-discuss it they suddenly decide to rename it back. I was the one who started the article and when they replace mine for a name that hasn't even been confirmed of course I'm going to be irritated. Ask the one who created the R-L article in the first place. --Cococrash11 (talk) 01:38, November 30, 2013 (UTC)

Firstly, nobody here owns an article just because they made some changes to it; each time you make an edit you do so knowing that your changes may themself be changed by anyone else, and in any way. Secondly, you did not create this article, so you have no reason to feel irritated. You're overreacting about something which has already been resolved, so I suggest you just accept the change and move on. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 09:26, November 30, 2013 (UTC)

First of all, R-L could be vague enough to stand for the player [Remember, the actual player playing the game], but my initals are N.F. Although R.L. does sound vague, there are thousands of different intials combinations for everyone in the world, and R-L would make up less than 10% of them. The reason I say this and point importance toward the player in real life is that Ubisoft acutally claimed that the research analysist was supposed to be the embodiment of the player. Therefore, names would vary heavily. Boy, if R.L. Stine played Assassin's creed and saw this page, he would be happy. Unless the person who said R.L. was the analysist's official initials, they were probably tailoring it to be their own name to troll this forum. Without evidence, the analysist's initials might as well be T.B, G.W.D, H.D., and so forth. 68.187.156.79 03:33, May 1, 2014 (UTC)BallerBallerBills

Clues to the analysist's physical traits

I have a theory, and someone removed my edit from before. Please tell me if it sounds implausible.

The analysist gets stabbed by John at the end. Listen carefully to the grunt made the moment that happens. That must be the research analysist's, because why would John grunt? It doesn't take much force to thrust a needle into a body. The grunt would be a sound of pain coming from the victim. The grunt also sounds male, so the research analysist must be a male.

Also, more evidence that the research analysist is a guy. Stand next to a female NPC at the office [several to validate my claim]. The average male body is taller than the female's body in general, correct? You'll notice that your point of view towers slightly over most of the females at the office. Either you're an average size guy, or a really tall woman.

Want more evidence? Most of the Assassin's creed fanbase is composed of males. Therefore, it would make a lot of sense that the Research Analysist is male, especially if it really is/is based off the embodiment of the player.

Does it sound plausible?

68.187.156.79 23:24, April 29, 2014 (UTC)BallerBallerBills

Your edit was removed because it was speculation. Until we have proof, either in-game or from the developers, we are not stating that the analyst is male. Stormbeast ♉ ^{The Helpful Place} 23:33, April 29, 2014 (UTC)

Also, Darby McDevitt, the writer of Black Flag, recently confirmed in a tweet that the grunt was meant to be John's, not the analyst's. Your other arguments really don't carry much weight, so I'd say the research analyst's gender shall remain ambiguous until Ubisoft decides otherwise Crook ^{The Constantine District} 06:11, April 30, 2014 (UTC)

I don't think Ubisoft will reveal the physical traits of the player character, as it's supposed to be the player's body, but what I do think will happen is that the character themself will get their own story, as they do actually have their own diary and personal thoughts, so they would qualify as an actual character. It seemed that the injection grunt would be from the player character feeling pain, since it wouldn't take grunt-worthy force to stick someone with a needle.

I still view the height thing as suspicious, though, because the average male is 5'10, and the average female is 5'2, and the character's point of view is taller than all of the females at the office, and like I said, it would make sense to have a male base since it panders to the majority of Assassin's Creed audience, which are mostly composed of men. 68.187.156.79 03:30, May 1, 2014 (UTC)BallerBallerBills

"it would make sense to have a male base since it panders to the majority of Assassin's Creed audience, which are mostly composed of men."

First, sources. Second, so that means women players who love Assassin's Creed--like myself and many other women on this wiki--should be barred from identifying with the analyst the way Ubisoft wants us to because . . . why?

I don't want to get too personal, but this is one of my biggest pet peeves about fan reactions to this game. When I figured out that Ubisoft really did want players to be able to identify with the modern-day character regardless of gender, I was ecstatic, because that happens so rarely. I really got to immerse myself there and believe, yes, that is me. Then people come along and decide that the character has to be a man. Why? What do we lose by the character not being gendered? This character is meant to be someone onto whom we can project ourselves. What do you gain by taking that experience away from me?

I don't mind playing as a male character, not one iota. But it does get my hackles up a little when people insist a genderless character has to be a man, just because.

</rant>

-Molotov.cockroach (talk) 06:17, May 1, 2014 (UTC)

Wait, what? Molotov, you're a woman? O.o?! - okay, on to the main point I wanted to type before reading that: Ubisoft confirmed that the gender is meant to be ambiguous so that everyone can identify with it. Because of that, coming up with reasons why he has to be male is useless, unnecessary and even wrong, because he isn't. Or rather, yours may be male, mine was not. Nesty ^{Contact me!} 07:02, May 1, 2014 (UTC)

Haha, yeah I am. I tend not to mention it because it's rarely relevant, but it happened to be in this case. :) Thank you for summing that point up a lot more succinctly than I did. -Molotov.cockroach (talk) 07:27, May 1, 2014 (UTC)

Well, now I feel bad ;( I was just saying that the majority of Assassin's Creed fans were male, so it would make sense to have a male base. I will admit that no sources exist defining the player's actual traits outside of the evidence I provided, but once again, it's either an amizonian woman or an average height man. That was the evidence, and I didn't think a source was actually needed outside of comparing average heights of people around the office. I can tell Ubisoft was being very selective about what they say to prevent deduction of "R-L"s true gender. Don't ask how I know, but the first few diary entries seem kind of feminine to me for an unexplainable reason. It's like Ubisoft knew we would waste time trying to find out more details about "R-L". -BallerBallerBills

Personally, I think the PC is female. John intended for the PC's body to be the host of Juno's consciousness. I don't think he would select a guy for her physical body. That would be pretty messed up. Furthermore, you really shouldn't take these comments so seriously, Molotov. I doubt they were intended to be sexist. Either way it doesn't matter. It's all just speculation. Toolen (talk) 01:01, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

Is that template really necessary? I doubt we'll ever learn the analysts real name. —unsigned comment by Bovkaffe (talk · contr)

Yes. It's always necessary, regardless of whether we'll learn the real name. And sign your posts and create new sections when you're starting a new topic, Bovkaffe. --Crimson Knight _Intercom 10:34, May 10, 2014 (UTC)

Rogue protagonist's identity

This is probably not the same character from Rogue. The character from Rogue has a different desk/animus, and does not have access to all the security levels, unlike this one. Until we have confirmation either way, let's assume they are different people. - Zero-ELEC (talk) 21:42, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

Also, I think Melanie would have defended them from that woman at the start if they were the one who researched Edward. Or, at the very least, interacted differently with them. --Crimson Knight _Intercom 21:46, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

When you get up to CCO's office, Mel talks as if you don't have a clue who Olivier was, even though you met him personally in Black Flag. So this pretty much spells out "you're a DIFFERENT nameless, mute, floating tablet in this game." What are we gonna name the new article though? Helix Research Analyst? All of this crap could be avoided if we had proper modern day protagonists and coherent plot again... --Kainzorus Prime ⚜ ^{Walkie-talkie} 22:07, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

The protagonist in Rogue is definitely a different person. On a related note, did the game give any hint as to fate of Black Flag's protagonist? Their clearly absent in 2014, and I was wondering if the game contained clues pertaining to what happened. I just got the game,and I haven't finished it yet, so I wouldn't know. If the game does contain clues, they should be added to the article. Toolen (talk) 01:09, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

Relevance?

I noticed this in the trivia for the modern day Research Analyst in Black Flag: "According to Melanie Lemay in regards to the memories of Arno Dorian, Abstergo had trouble finding the researchers with required potential, in order to extensively explore the genetic memories of individuals with a high count of First Civilization DNA." Is this half-finished or something? I don't see why it's there since Arno's not mentioned in Black Flag. If it's meant to be about the First Civ DNA bit, it should be reworded, if not, then I can't see a reason for it being there. Welshman15 (talk) 16:51, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

JTR Info

Hey,

Before i start editing, i want to know if we all agree that the "Montreal agent" Cooper talked about in the Assassin Intel of JTR is this guy. I mean, he is definitely talking about him, but i want to see if we all agree. DipsonDP (talk) 01:14, December 18, 2015 (UTC)

The first time I read it, I thought of this guy too. But then I remembered there was an actual Initiate who retrieved a blood vial from AE Montreal. Stormbeast ♉ ^{The Helpful Place} 01:20, December 18, 2015 (UTC)

That happened before Black Flag, give it a look. DipsonDP (talk) 01:23, December 18, 2015 (UTC)

I did, actually, right before I typed the response, to double-check. The Initiate left Montreal during the early events of Black Flag, not before. Stormbeast ♉ ^{The Helpful Place} 01:29, December 18, 2015 (UTC)

So uh, can we confirm that the Abstergo Entertainment research analyst was taken out in 2015 then and edit the article accordingly? Crook ^{The Constantine District} 16:56, January 26, 2016 (UTC)

We never really got to a conclusion :P DipsonDP (talk) 21:49, March 1, 2016 (UTC)

Strangely, I came to similar conclusions here, backed up by this ATA post, but still wasn't sure myself. Does this give the theory more "proof"? Darman (talk) 00:44, March 2, 2016 (UTC)

The original dead mole from that post is John Standish, the new mole was this Research Analyst. However they later left the company, as talked about by Melanie. They're never mentioned to have died. The "Man in Montreal" is another character entirely, originally associated with the Initiates before they were absorbed by the Assassins. The Man in Montreal was the one who died. — Zero-ELEC (talk) 01:41, March 2, 2016 (UTC)

Gender pronoun

I just want to clarify whether you guys think that using the plural "them", "their", etc. should be our policy for this article and other characters of unidentified gender.

In college, there's a very strict stance against this for individuals of unidentified genders. It's considered incorrect academically because at the end of the day, the individual is a single person, so the plural is wrong. However, obviously the reason why the plural is preferred is because typing "him or her" is too wordy and tedious in reading. Hence, the mistake is propagated by even professionals sometimes.

Colleges I know of tend to advise just choosing one gender arbitrarily: him or her, and allow the reader to understand it's not necessarily a male or a female that the choice of male or female pronoun is just a placeholder. In Star Wars reference books, not sure about Assassin's Creed ones, they do this, switching on and off between male and female pronouns for general individuals or individuals of unidentified genders.

The issue then lies in choosing which male or female pronoun, which some professors advise to just choose based on your own gender for convenience. However this policy is obviously not feasible here because we have multiple editors for the article and also we don't want to give the mistaken impression that we're claiming the analyst is male or female canonically. If we go this route, perhaps we can have a template clarifying that the gender is unknown, and that the gender pronoun we have chosen is not indicative of claiming that that is actually the analyst's gender, but then the problem of choosing which pronoun to use would still exist.

The other two options is obviously to keep on using the grammatically incorrect plural pronoun or to use the tedious "he or she". I just wanted clarification on your thoughts on this. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 02:17, January 28, 2017 (UTC)

I'd stick with "they", to be honest. Academics can say all they want, they as a gender-neutral singular pronoun is increasingly common nowadays, to the point that it really shouldn't be regarded as incorrect. And, as you said, typing "he or she" continuously is tedious, while choosing either "he" or "she" would be presumptuous and confusing because we'd have to clarify that we don't actually know the research analyst's gender. So yeah, I think the article is good as is, on that front. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 08:32, January 28, 2017 (UTC)

The use of a singular they is not grammatically incorrect at all, unless you're willing to consider singular you as grammatically incorrect as well. They has been used as a singular since 1300s and only started drawing criticism from academic sources in the 19th century, though there was some far more reactionary complaints in previous centuries.

They as a gender neutral singular is also not unseen in academic settings, and is quite commonly understood by anyone who cares. Language is, after all, not immutable (far from it actually) and strict adherence to grammar rules for the sake of it and at the cost of legibility and clarity is counter productive to the purpose of the wiki. In the case of the usage of they for unidentified individuals on the wiki, I believe it's a case of not fixing what isn't broken. — Zero-ELEC (talk) 08:56, January 28, 2017 (UTC)

"Noob"

If we're being technical, this article should actually be titled "Noob" as weird as that sounds. This is because it is the only name, even if a silly nickname, used in an official source in reference to this character. By standard wiki sourcing policy, it qualifies by mere fact there is no better sourced name. A sourced name takes precedent before a less silly conjectural one. Besides, technically the Helix research analyst is also an Abstergo Entertainment research analyst. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 01:46, August 30, 2017 (UTC)

Death

This is an ongoing discussion.

I know we've discussed this before, but I don't remember what was our conclusion last time. Can we confirm that the "man in Montreal" in Database: Assassin Intel 5 who was caught and killed actually refers to this individual? Intuitively, it should, but I always found it highly unlikely, almost impossible, that Juno, in selecting a specific individual to be her vessel, her body, would choose a male, especially if she wanted to be able to make love with Aita again.

As I recall, the earlier conclusion was that it referred to the Initiate sent to recover a blood vial in October 2013 according to Assassin's Creed: Initiates. However, this Initiate had left after their mission was a success, and it has never been stated if they remained in Montreal.

On the other hand, Assassin Intel 5 implies that the "man in Montreal" is an Initiate, not an Assassin since it says "monitored his communications with other Initiates". The Black Flag protagonist was more or less recruited by the Assassins by the end of the game as an informant before the Assassins discovered the existence of the Initiates and allied with them. Hence, this would mean that the Black Flag protagonist is an Assassin—even if not a field agent—not an Initiate, right? This is unless when the Assassins and Initiates teamed up, Assassin informants were transferred to the Initiates. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 02:23, June 20, 2018 (UTC)