Talk:Grand Master of the Assassin Order

Where is this term ever mentioned? Grand master is the title held by the leader of a christian knightly order. In real life, the assassins were lead by an imam, because in real life, they were a muslim order. Ingame, the assassins are neither christian nor muslim, so neither term fits- therefore "master" is the only appropriate term until said otherwise ingame.

Imams are the equivelant of our priests and vicars..... Not a leader in that sense..... EchoAltair 09:26, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

First sign your posts with with four Tildes ~ Second its called Grandmaster in-game and Third its a Game not real life 121.72.180.189 10:11, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

why was ezio deleted, we already know hes gonna be the grand master in brotherhood, duh -_- (Megahypernova 05:33, June 22, 2010 (UTC))

It doesn't say he becomes the Grand Master at all, it says he will become a master assassin..... Just like Altair was in the first game.....EchoAltair 10:28, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Niccolò Machiavelli

Why is Niccolò Machiavelli a grand master assassin? I can't seem to find it in wikia, perheps i've missed it....

I thought that ezio was a grand master assassin, he is controlling the brotherhood (and not Niccolò Machiavelli) and creators of the game says he is a master assassin.

• I am actually getting tired of repeating this, so I'm going to say it just one more time. Ezio is not the Grand Master, he is a Master Assassin; they're two entirely different ranks with completely different powers and responsibilities. Ezio has never been called a Grand Master, and whilst he may have some degree of control over the assassins in AC:B, he is still, not the Grand Master. As for Maccers, it's not been explicitly stated that he's the Grand Master, though his position of authority and appearances in-game lend towards his being so. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 02:47, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
• Niccolo Machiavelli was de facto Grand Master, meaning, he was to be Grand Master for a short time because Mario died. Since he saw Ezio as a more powerful leader, he declared him as Il Mentore or The Mentor.

Ezio?

I seem to have overheard that Ezio is the new Grand Master in the new Assassins Creed: Brotherhood. Watch the video he says it within the first minute. He says he is the Leader.

I can't seem to figure this out. Ezio, in effect should be the grand master but grand master and master assassin are two different things! Perhaps he is both ahnd that is very unlikely! Babystace2k10 07:05, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

• In that video the anon posted above, the VO says Ezio is a leader in the Assassin Order, not the leader of it. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 11:52, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

I see that clears it up, thanks Jasca! Death by Spoon! 12:54, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Just to help out and make a point, in the begining both Al-Tair and Al-Mualim were master assassins but the only leader of the Order was Al Mualim. Le Vulpe 21:10, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Meh, wrong. Al Mualim is THE Grand Master of the Assassin Order, which is both a rank and a position. Altaïr is a Master Assassin, which is only a rank. He doesn't have a named official position stated, but whatever it's called, it's shown that involves being sent on missions, be to assassinate someone or recover something or infiltrate someplace or etc. Al Mualim is not a master assassin but the Grand Master. Altaïr is a Master Assassin still working as field agent/asset/assassin, just as Malik is a Master Assassin in rank but a dai in position. -- D. Cello 22:07, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

It's very likely that Ezio is only a leader of the Assassin Order and that there are others like Niccolo Machiavelli. I don't know yet. But it's too early to say that Ezio is a Grand Master. Cause I have to side with Jasca here. In the video in the beginning he is called 'a' leader, not 'the' leader. --Altaïr 09:47, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

• In Assassin's Creed: Project Legacy is said that Ezio is just the leader of the Brotherhood in Rome, showing that the Order has many leaders and that Ezio is just one of them -- Zac Skywalker 12:26, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

So was there ever any 'proof' then that Ezio was a Grand Master after all that? or is he still only a master assassin? If not, should we remove him form the GM postion on this page, or is it just through general concensus and assumption that we believe he actually is the GM? Subject AMDR 09:03, January 11, 2011 (UTC)

In the name of History

Ok, so I realize that technically the Assassins of the series act a bit differently than they did in real history (or maybe not!), but I was wondering if- 1: A page could be made for Hassan-i Sabbah, the "Founder" (in the case of the series, "Refounder") of the Assassins in Persia. 2: If he could be added to this Grandmasters page, as I'm pretty sure he would fit the definition.

After all, it is rumored that he was the one to state that "Nothing is true, everything is permitted" on his death bed. Wikipedia page just in case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan-i_Sabbah User:Durmer Darc 18:19, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

• Nope. Hassan-i Sabbah is never mentioned in the AC series, so he doesn't get an article here. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 01:27, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Niccolo Machiavelli Grand Master

So, i read in an interview that Niccolo was indeed the Grand Master of the Assassins in Rome during the Renaissance. See the last question. J.h.jaraub 00:51, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

• Great, now Ubisoft can't even bloody decide who they want to be Grand Master… Until we can reach a consensus on this, I think it's best we keep both names off of the article, even better if we wait until the game comes out. Also, sign your posts, for crien' out loud. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 00:49, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
• Agreed.And I was in a rush when i typed it, it escaped my mind. J.h.jaraub 00:51, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

• This part is interesting: "Machiavelli will play a much larger role in Brotherhood than he did in AC2. He's the leader of the Assassins in Rome when Ezio arrives and he's not going to just let Ezio come in and take charge. So expect some competition between Ezio and Machiavelli. At the same time, he has a lot to learn about leadership and Ezio will be a major influence on him, despite their conflict. As for Mac's gameplay role, he will be a major mission-giver in the game." Which means Ezio is not the leader yet in the beginning of the game, but Machiavelli is. He is the master of the Assassins. Now the latest trailer has Catherina saying Ezio is now the leader of the Assassins, which means Ezio will take over the leadership over the Assassins at one point in the game. --Altaïr 11:47, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

Well, how about we just put Ezio on there as being the Italian Grand Master and Machiavelli as the Grand Master of the Roman sect? -- Master Sima Yi 11:48, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

I would put Machiavelli in the list. Things are really vague concerning Ezio being grand master, but he does seem to be some leader figure. But as the interview says, like Al Mualim Machiavelli is handing out missions to do. I think that's a good confirmation he is the grand master. Besides he already revealed himself (though he said he was only an assassin) in ACII, but again he comes off as the guy in charge, which is why he follows you around in both DLC's. --Altaïr 11:54, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

In the sotry trailer, he seemed more like an advisor to me. The scene in a cerimony (be it a initiation or a promotion) has Ezio on center, with Niccolo to his left. And I do believe he is hte Italian leader, but actually, I don't believe he is the Grand-Master. Also, there's other possibility. Since the Assassins were somewhat dissorganized, they could have a cell like structure instead of the "Order" one, meaning that they had several groups in other regions, each controlled by one guy who was their leader, but not all the Assassins' leader. So Niccolo would be the leader of Italia, but not the leader of Spain. Ezio may or may not have reintroduced the jointed order concept and instaured himself as GM, but we will have to wait to see that. -- D. Cello 17:00, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

I believe that what D. Cello is saying is more likely to be the case. However, until the game comes out, we just can't know for sure who, if anybody, is Grand Master… --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 17:39, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

Pre-1500

So who's the grand master prior to Machiavelli's lead in 1500? Was it still Machiavelli? I was thinking it was Mario Auditore, since he was the one who spoke the Arabic during Ezio's induction into the order. Alpheta 13:38, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think that Mario was the Grand Master before Machiavelli. And Giovanni before him. Though seeing as this isn't directly stated in any of the games, we can't be sure. -- Master Sima Yi 13:40, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

That's what I was thinking too, given Mario's statement that "now it's the Brotherhood's problem," after Giovanni takes the Shroud in Project Legacy. *Subject 1 21:27, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Re-name of article?

Okay, it seems to me that their is no actual rank in the Assassins as 'The Grand Master', which I believe to just be a colloquial term. Now I know this sounds stupid but hear me out; In the first game Al Mualim is the leader of the Assassins and his name means The Teacher (which is a synonym of Mentor) in Arabic. Further evidence arises in Brotherhood when Machiavelli declares Ezio Il Mentore which in Italian means The Mentor. We can also see this in Assassin's Creed: The Fall when Nikolai is talking with his wife he say's "My father wanted this Anna, not I. He came to this country with a dream and made the Narodnaya Volya his cause...(cut for time) But the Mentor himself has said that this is a time of great change." This leads me to conclude that the actual title of the leader of the Brotherhood is The Mentor or the Teacher. What do you guys/girls think? --ilmentore 00:20 GMT 13th December 2010

Actually, that does make sense. I do believe, however, that I've heard at least one of the Grand Masters' called as such, so we should probably have Grand Master as a redirect, and move the article over to "The Teacher". I'll leave it open to discussion for a couple of days, and then if I see no objections, I'll move the page over. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 01:50, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I have to agree with this, even though I think it'd seem a little awkward. Though if we do move it, it should be to "The Mentor" rather than "The Teacher", as "The Mentor" is mentioned in both Brotherhood and The Fall and I'm pretty sure thar "Al Mualim" is just a bad translation. -- Master Sima Yi 06:25, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to bring this up again but in Assassins Creed: The Fall 2# Daniel Cross asked to see The Mentor in plain English which to me is further proof that the title is The Mentor and not Grand Master. Ilmentore 12:14, December 18, 2010 (GMT)

We know that. We put it on the page. And why did you make a link to my user page?! oO -- Master Sima Yi 13:05, December 18, 2010 (UTC)