User talk:Timgretio

Welcome to the Order, Timgretio!

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In response to your concerns

Communities across the Assassin's Creed fandom have been dealing with a widespread problem of racists and misogynists decrying the choices of Yasuke and Naoe as protagonists. All of these communities, including Access the Animus, the Assassin's Creed subreddit, and even other subreddits not directly related to the series, have had to take extensive moderation measures in response. Apart from this, it is a normal practice of wiki moderators to lock and end forum posts when tensions are flaring and a debate has devolved into an ceaseless, unproductive argument.

Now, I have allowed you to share your opinions and engage extensively in debate about Yasuke and Naoe instead of denying that outright. I also do not know you on a personal level nor well enough to be confident that your problems with Yasuke and Naoe stem from prejudice, but the issue that I personally observe is that it does not seem like you ever really advance your arguments based on my own rebuttals. I am being careful here now to describe this as my own observation, rather than as a fact.

I also honestly do think that your reasons for criticizing Yasuke and Naoe as protagonists are disingenuous, and ever more so throughout our debates. For example, you have repeatedly alleged that I do not address your points even though I have written essay responses doing my best to meticulously address them at great expense of my time. If there is a point you think I have missed, it would have been more helpful for you to just highlight them, but my impression is that you were just not advancing the conversation. It is also unclear to me why you are not receptive of the explanations by historians in the r/AskHistorians subreddit, which is known for its authoritativeness through its strict moderation to permit only experts' answers. For these reasons, I cannot deny that I developed suspicions that there was underlying racism and misogyny towards Yasuke and Naoe. I am being careful here to describe this in terms of my honest thoughts and feelings, not in terms of indisputable facts about who you are. I am not accusing you, but I am sharing my opinion and concerns and why I developed that opinion and concern.

I am also being mindful here that because we have opposing opinions—and I gather political values as well—it is hard for me to evaluate our debate impartially. From my perspective, your tone was becoming unfriendly and losing civility. When you start adding sarcasm to your replies, that can give that impression, and it is what cued me that it was about time to stop the debate. At the same time, I acknowledge that as someone with strong beliefs and who is being vigilant about racism and misogyny, I do not have the impartiality to assess that I moderated myself well enough in the midst of a tense debate.

For the record, I unlocked the thread a couple of times to edit my comment clarifying why I am locking it. It is fair for you to feel that I locked the thread to get the last word, but I honestly locked it because I had already spent two hours debating you, and it was already past midnight for me. I had meant to sleep early and have work tomorrow, and I could not allow the thread to go on further without moderation while I go to bed. Like I said, from the tone of the debate, I judged that it had exhausted all constructiveness and was soon to devolve further, and thus it was the right time to close it. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 09:50, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

To clarify one other thing, I know as a moderator, it may be better to recuse myself from debates entirely, but in regards to the topic of Yasuke, the notion that he historically was not a samurai is a factually contentious one. Many fans have been spreading misinformation and misconceptions about it, and while you may disagree, this really is often accompanied with, fueled by, or in service of racist sentiments, sometimes more overtly than others. When I see such misinformation—at its simplest the idea that samurai and retainers are mutually exclusive—I see it as my duty to step in and correct them so that users are better informed. (I frequently cite the r/AskHistorians post because it is the only source as far as I know where an expert directly addresses the debate about Yasuke's inclusion in the series. I myself am not a specialist in this history, nor are you, so the most responsible thing to do is to give some trust to the insights of someone who is a specialist.) Given a choice between stepping in, allowing those comments to go unaddressed, or shutting down those comments or the thread immediately, my first choice is the former, but there is a point where I have to draw a line.

You are free to respond here to continue airing your concerns by the way. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 10:21, 15 June 2024 (UTC)