Talk:Jacob Frye

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Jacob Frye's Shilling Necklace

Did they mention about his Shilling Necklace. Since it was mentioned as a give away to those pre-ordered or something I would thought it would be an important plot point. --Cococrash11 (talk) 16:51, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

Didn't catch anything regarding a necklace - it might be similar to Arno's pocketwatch. Striking, but ultimately possessing little relevance to the plot. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 16:56, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

I believe it's a preorder bonus, at least I've seen that mentioned in a few articles. I agree with the above^ in that it's like Arno's pocketwatch, in that it doesn't really serve any purpose to the plot. Echoh98 (talk) 17:26, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

This is pre-alpha footage, so it may just be an oversight, or it becomes important later on. Slate Vesper (talk) 18:30, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

Is Jack the Ripper was his alter-ego?

Jack/Jacob? It's a familiar name, could it be his Alter-ego?

Doubt it. Syndicate takes place during 1868, while the Ripper killings were committed around 1888. Also, please sign your posts. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 06:32, July 22, 2015 (UTC)

Also, "Jack the Killer" is something you just made up. If you mean "Jack the Ripper" then I suppose it is entirely possible, but it's not something likely to be covered in this game, if only for the dating issue (as pointed out by Crook). --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 21:31, July 22, 2015 (UTC)

Well there is a Jack the Ripper DLC for the game coming out next month, so he could be. It's possible for a nice guy like him to turn crazy during the 20 year gap between Syndicate and the DLC, however Jacob is married and with children during this time-this comes from the birthdate of Lydia Frye, his granddaughter-and experts believe Jack the Ripper was not married or had any known children. But we'll just have to see; suspicious as Jacob is not shown in the trailer but Evie is. GamerSophie (talk) 03:24, October 26, 2015 (UTC)

I think we can say with certainty that Jacob is not Jack the Ripper, since we know that Jacob was alive during World War I and trained Lydia alongside Evie.--Bovkaffe (talk) 19:16, November 7, 2015 (UTC)

Outfits

I've uploaded some images for alternate outfits that were available, but some (particularly the "Gunslinger" one) are not available yet. If someone has an image of that outfit, please upload that in the gallery.

Also, as for outfit names, I know Ezio's full name, but I haven't written it because that's how the game (at least the PS4 version) designates it, while Edward's outfit is designated by his full name.

Jetfire343 (talk) 14:25, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

Dreadful Crimes

So I was playing Syndicate and I finished the Dreadful Crimes missions, when Jacob says The Gruesome Whitechapel Murders by 'Artie' when he mentions something Artie should write about. However, all the murders in the missions happen in different boroughs, not one of them in Whitechapel and they weren't gruesome; but the murders of Jack the Ripper were. Why would Jacob mention something which would happen 20 years into the future? Hmm... GamerSophie (talk) 03:20, October 26, 2015 (UTC)

Did he say this in a particular mission or after finishing all of them? I've played most of the Dreadful Crimes so far, but always as Evie, so I haven't heard anything in that vein. It could simply (hopefully) be a reference. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 22:17, October 26, 2015 (UTC)

He (SPOILER) said it at the end of the very last mission to Artie when he and Evie save him from Henry Raymond. You don't need to play either of them to hear it as it is a cutscene. GamerSophie (talk) 13:58, October 27, 2015 (UTC)

I played the mission today - to me, it appears to be just a cheeky reference from the writers to the Jack the Ripper killings. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 14:33, October 27, 2015 (UTC)

It would be awesome if it was a hint to what would come though, if you get what I mean. GamerSophie (talk) 15:25, October 27, 2015 (UTC)

I would disagree on it being awesome, seeing as I don't want silly boy Jacob to become ruthless serial killer Jack the Ripper :P Crook ^{The Constantine District} 15:31, October 27, 2015 (UTC)

True, but he isn't as he is alive and well after 1888, and if the twins killed Jack the Ripper-and it turned out to be Jacob-he wouldn't be 'evacuated to the countryside' during WWI. It would be an awesome plot twist though, seeing him have Multiple Personality Disorder. GamerSophie (talk) 16:34, October 27, 2015 (UTC)

Master Assassin

Who said he was a master assassin. Even in the game he says in a conversation with Evie "That relentlessness will see me become a master" "George would alow nothing of the sort" It is clear he has not got the rank plus his overall skills do not compare with a master assassin more of a brawler with very little insight into the creed or its purpose.

Lead writer did... despite that very quote lol. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 17:18, October 27, 2015 (UTC)

I think he meant Master as in Mentor of the British Brotherhood, not Master as in Master Assassin. GamerSophie (talk) 17:29, October 27, 2015 (UTC)

Doubt it. The terms are not synonymous, so he should've corrected me. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 10:43, October 29, 2015 (UTC)

The Frye twins are not specifically stated as being Master Assassins especially the youngest to do so because in the in-game universe of 2012 in the database entry for AC3 Shaun says that Altair is the youngest Master Assassin so that means that any assassin prior of 2012 did not usurp Altair as the youngest Master Assassin. Also the 2015 in-game universe data base entires (especially for Syndicate) do not refer to them as being Master Assassins and does not discredit the information in 2012.ConmanWAR (talk) 00:43, November 4, 2015 (UTC)

It's time like this I think we should stringently stick to our Sourcing policy. It says that in a time of direct conflict, we follow the games. The Lead Writer may well have said (on Twitter, I should point out) that they were MAs before the game starts, but that clearly doesn't match up with what we're shown in-game. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 09:12, November 4, 2015 (UTC)

^ If we are talking about the games then it is not mentioned that Jacob and Evie are not master assassins. In AC3's database entry of Altair (in game universe-2012) it says that Altair is the youngest known master assassin in the brotherhood's history, meaning that any assassin prior to 2012 did not usurp Altair as the youngest. Even the latest game's database entries have not corrected this as even Syndicate their is no mention of Jacob or Evie being master assasssins becuase it would not be lore friendly. The only way for Altair to not be the youngest is if a modern day assassin became the youngest to reach the rank of MA. Otherwise it goes against the lore and will most certainly upset the fans who have been here since the beginning. Furthermore, the game director for Syndicate, Scott Phillips, said that Evie was the "master of stealth" and not particularily a Master Assassin and there is little substantial evidence to claim Jacob is one either. Also, AC3 was released in 2012 while Syndicate and the characters were being developed in 2012 so the smaller aspects of AC3 such as the database entries would correlate with the new characters that were being developed at the time. This wiki page is supposed to offer the most relaible information and facts to the fans and claiming that these two characters are master assassins with litttle substantial evidence is not only offensive to the fanbase but also is unfriendly to the very lore of the series. ConmanWAR (talk) 01:35, November 5, 2015 (UTC)

They've been referred to as Master Assassins in a multitude of pre-release material - I will admit those are not always accurate though, given the whole 'Connor Kenway' thing. However, you citing the 2012 database in AC3 is not a valid argument, since Shaun evidently didn't know about the Frye twins until Syndicate, so it's very possible he would have to amend that quote regarding Altaïr being the youngest Master Assassin.

I am certain Evie has been referred to as a Master Assassin, exactly because of her skills and stealth capabilities. Jacob too has been called a Master Assassin at least once in a Ubiblog or something similar. Syndicate would not have been in development in 2012 lol. The focus then would have been on AC3, they'd started on Black Flag and the very very beginnings of Unity (aka when the storyline was still being created and probably was nothing close to what we ended up getting). If Victoria Atkin was only cast in late 2014, I can only guess Syndicate had started development in early 2013 (and that's optimistic), well after AC3's release. Besides, it's not like Ubisoft doesn't retcon things - remember Connor being "the first Native American to join the Assassins", and then we got Opía Apito, Ah Tabai and Kesegowaase.

I think Jasca has a point, but I'm still conflicted over this, so I'm hoping Yohalem will provide some further explanation on Twitter (or maybe in a podcast later). If we don't get any clarification, however, I believe the trivia should be removed; I don't see any reason to doubt that Jacob and Evie are/eventually become Master Assassins, but without Yohalem's tweet, there's no real information on when they attained that status. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 09:01, November 5, 2015 (UTC)

^ aC

Well from the events of the game they'll probably become Master Assassins now. It's not everyday two Assassins free London from Templars. GamerSophie (talk) 15:55, November 4, 2015 (UTC)

^ I doubt it. Take Arno from Unity for example. He killed a master assassin, freed Paris from the Templars and killed not only the grandmaster but a Sage as well and he didn't become a master assassin until the age of 40. ConmanWAR (talk) 01:35, November 5, 2015 (UTC)

Even the trailers and pre-release interviews called Jacob and Evie Master Assassins, and it wouldn't be the first time that contradictions occur in the series. Also, where does it say that Arno only became a Master Assassin at the age of 40?--Bovkaffe (talk) 06:05, November 5, 2015 (UTC)

^No trailers except for Evie's or interviews called the Frye twins Master Assassins and Scott Phillips, the game director for Syndicate retracted Evie as a Master Assassin and instead called her the "Master of Stealth". These are just a handful of interviews from Marc-Alexis Cote- creative director, Scott Pelland- senior producer and Scott Phillips.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kr5juxGw0E&index=6&list=LLAvQM30YZx68bZGWuGHI8LA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rutsPPFuS8c&index=7&list=LLAvQM30YZx68bZGWuGHI8LA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X1fp9g5g3Q&index=5&list=LLAvQM30YZx68bZGWuGHI8LA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgxcnD3GHfc&index=8&list=LLAvQM30YZx68bZGWuGHI8LA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0VuOFA-NB0&index=9&list=LLAvQM30YZx68bZGWuGHI8LA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VieotaLUARs&index=10&list=LLAvQM30YZx68bZGWuGHI8LA And even by some chance that they were described as being Master Assassins they didn't say they were the youngest because it's discrediting the lore. ConmanWAR (talk) 01:09, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't say anywhere that Arno became a Master Assassin at the age of 40. He became a Master Assassin, but not at that age. GamerSophie (talk) 08:30, November 5, 2015 (UTC)

Arno became a Master Assassin between 1794 and 1808, meaning he could have gained the rank at any age between 26 and 40. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 08:54, November 5, 2015 (UTC)

The twins would not have gained the rank after freeing London as they defied the council. If anything they could have been expeled. Jacob especially he has no interest in the creed and acts more like a brutish thug then a master assassin.

They liberated the heart of the British Empire, basically THE center of power of the world at the time, from the Templars' grip - no Council, no matter how ignorant would have expelled them for that. Also, please sign your posts. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 19:57, November 5, 2015 (UTC)

Reasons why Jacob is not playable in the Jack the Ripper DLC

The Season Pass tells us Abberline requests the assistance of Evie to stop the madman Jack the Ripper, not Jacob. Can we think of a plausable reason why he is not playable/one of the main characters in the DLC? (WITHOUT SUGGESTING HE IS JACK THE RIPPER HIMSELF). Can it be that he is out of London or he is just ill during that time? Or that Abberline, knowing how Jacob is, does not want him on this case but someone who can think things through like Evie? GamerSophie (talk) 19:46, November 7, 2015 (UTC)

Jacob already had a child by 1888, meaning it's plausible that there's no further access to his memories. -- Master Sima Yi _Talk 15:57, November 8, 2015 (UTC)

That doesn't actually make sense. You can still access his memories even if he had a child; it's his memories. When they're born his memories after having a child doesn't get placed into the child, just his DNA and later on his memories. GamerSophie (talk) 16:00, November 9, 2015 (UTC)

That's how genetic memory in Assassin's Creed works, GamerSophie. Once a child is conceived, the recording of genetic memories continues through that child. As a result, any memories of the parents following conception cannot be relived by descendants. We saw this in AC2, when Desmond had that Bleeding Effect experience where he relived Altaïr conceiving Sef with Maria. Altaïr then left, but Desmond "stayed" with Maria, as the recording of ancestral memories had jumped from Altaïr to Sef. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 16:08, November 9, 2015 (UTC)

Ahhh thank you for explaining that to me, I bought the game but lost the CD because my brother thinks that they are frizbees. :p. Okay, So we can all conclusively say Evie did not have children before 1888? GamerSophie (talk) 16:25, November 9, 2015 (UTC)

Probably.

There's a loophole; if Abstergo somehow acquired the DNA of Jacob or Evie themselves (for example by recovering their bones), they have access to Jacob and Evie's entire life of memories. In that case, the conception barrier does not apply.

While I think it's likely Evie might have waited longer than Jacob to have children, by the time of the DLC she would have been 41. That's a bit late, since its around the time a woman's fertility starts to decrease. So we'll have to see what Ubisoft goes with. It's entirely possible she didn't have children until she was in her forties, unlike Jacob, who apparently already had a grandchild by the time he was 46 :P Crook ^{The Constantine District} 16:32, November 9, 2015 (UTC)

Right, so plausible reasons why Jacob is not playable is because, a) Abstergo recovered Evie's bones but did not recover Jacob's, allowing all of Evie's genetic memories to be taken or b) Evie did not concieve children before 1888. GamerSophie (talk) 16:35, November 9, 2015 (UTC)

That is true, though it is important to note that Evie as a woman would probably receive no change in the genetic memories until she gives birth. ACII showed the memories shift from Altair to Maria after the conception, but that's because he passed on his genetic memory to the child, which resides in her. I think it would be very interesting if Evie was actually pregnant during the events of the DLC, though I admit that is unlikely. After the child's conception I would think we would still be following Evie around after all, its not like we would shift from her to Henry, cause that would make no sense, as the next ancestor is in her. I think its more likely she had yet to conceive, or the bones theory however. I just thought this possibility is also out there.208.107.215.16 17:05, November 9, 2015 (UTC)

Personally, I think that the genetic memories of both the father and the mother become inaccessible once the child is conceived. Because, by that point, you're no longer following the mother, you're following the child. The Animus' puppeteering concept basically means that you control the ancestor directly. If Desmond had replayed the night of Sef's conception from Maria's point of view, then I think he would have similarly lost control, as he essentially would now be controlling Sef inside of Maria instead. The Wikia Editor (talk) 20:01, November 9, 2015 (UTC)

I suppose that's a fair point, it was merely a presumption based on the screen zooming in on Maria, and Desmond saying "Waite why am I not following Altair.. oh.. OH! (paraphrase). Like I said its unlikely, I just thought it was possible, and it would mean we would have no way of knowing if she was pregnant until it was either brought up or she began showing. I actually like your Idea better. (And playing a baby might not be all that fun) However I think we would still be following the mother around, since the next ancestor would always be with her, we just wouldn't be controlling her. Just a thought. 208.107.215.16 21:31, November 9, 2015 (UTC)

It's similar to Haytham and Connor. We get to play as Haytham in the start of Ac3 and then we shift for Ziio for a minute and then to Connor. But it is pretty confusing (and suspicious) how we didn't get to play as Jacob. I think its about Jacob being male and Jack the Ripper only attacking females (prostitutes in fact) so Jacob won't do much help in the investigation at all. Misphantom (talk) 10:37, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

Considering Jacob already has a son by that time, I find it pretty logical we won't be playing as him. Besides, you don't need to be female to investigate Jack the Ripper. The only edge Evie has on Jacob would be that she could serve as bait, but she might be too old for the Ripper's tastes. Or he doesn't discriminate and kills women of all ages, whichever :P Crook ^{The Constantine District} 11:02, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

Or maybe Jacob had bigger fish to fry...Maxattac (talk) 11:15, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

*Frye :P

But yeah, that's also an entirely valid explanation; maybe Jacob is just off doing something else. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 11:20, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

Was...Was that a pun?  GamerSophie (talk) 18:14, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

Swimming. should be added to the skills the three Frye's posses

It should be mentioned Jacob, Evie and Lydia are capable swimmers as shown when in the Themes.{{SUBST:User:InoNOTHING/sig}}. 01:52, November 19, 2015 (UTC)

Starting again

Alright, let's rehash this once and for all. Some premises to start on:

• Deeds done by an individual Assassin do not necessarily imply a particular rank.
• Pre-release material has been wrong before.
• The lead writer announced the Master status in this Twitter post after the game's release.

My questions are as follows:

• Does the writer's statement override game content? (I'd think not, as the writer could be mistaken or rushed in a one-word Twitter post, having skipped over the word "Master".)
• Can anyone find any references in game content that say they are Masters? So far we have one instance of Jacob hinting that he is not a Master -- can we get a memory and sequence location on that, please?

When this discussion is concluded, either we should have consensus or a community vote. DarkFeather ^{Raven's Nest}_{Raven's Hunt} 20:10, November 30, 2015 (UTC)

"That relentlessness will see me become Master when we finish this."

―Jacob, Somewhere That's Green

As per your request. As far as I know, there are no instances of them claiming to already be Master Assassins. Amnestyyy (Contact me!)

<helper /> 20:37, November 30, 2015 (UTC)

The way I always view it, if during the course of the game you can unlock the character's Master Assassin outfit, that means they are a Master either at that point or will be. Not all Master Assassin's become leaders of their branch. --Revan's Exile (talk) 23:33, November 30, 2015 (UTC)

I suppose one could say that the unlocking of the Master Assassin outfits after the assassinations of Thorne and Twopenny count as an indication to them being that rank, yes. Definitive proof, however, it is not. So, comparatively, it's 1 for 1 right now. Amnestyyy (Contact me!)<helper /> 11:14, December 1, 2015 (UTC)

Proposition: We remove the trivia claiming Jacob is the youngest Master Assassin, seeing as that one is only substantiated by Jeffrey Yohalem's tweet - Yohalem has proven unreliable in the past and the game itself kind of speaks against it as well. I believe we should recognize Jacob as a Master Assassin in the introduction, and keep the category, but otherwise leave it unmentioned in the article, so that we can leave it ambiguous as to when he attained the rank and put an end to all this childish edit-warring. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 08:58, December 3, 2015 (UTC)

Whilst I personally don't see why we need that particular Trivia point, it is technically correct. The game takes place in 1868, when the twins were both 21, whilst Altaïr only got the rank at 25. (Even if we don't accept the fact that the twins were Master Assassins before the game starts, they certainly were by the end of it.) --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 09:04, December 3, 2015 (UTC)

"Even if we don't accept the fact that the twins were Master Assassins before the game starts, they certainly were by the end of it." - Sounds like the part where someone's supposed to go "SPECULATION!" :P Even if we consider it self-evident that the Frye twins deserved to be called Master Assassins after freeing London, that doesn't mean they were officially given the title. I don't know, I still think it'd just be simpler to with what I suggested. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 10:01, December 3, 2015 (UTC)

I've only stated that they were because they receive "Master Assassin" robes at the end of Sequences 7 & 8; I don't see why they would receive said robes without receiving the title as well. That being said, since Yohalem's comments do not directly contradict anything shown in-game, I don't see why we would discount his comments. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 10:30, December 3, 2015 (UTC)

How would you explain the quote then? Doesn't it imply that Jacob isn't a Master Assassin yet at the time of the "Somewhere That's Green" memory, which would contradict Yohalem's statement about them being Master Assassins prior to the start of the game. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 12:45, December 3, 2015 (UTC)

Dual Blades

Both twins actually wield dual Hidden Blades. Proof for Jacob and for Evie. The second blade is concealed under their right sleeve. Didn't check for Arno though. TOULOIR, membre du Conseil parisien (discussion) 00:43, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

Im pretty sure that the developers confirmed that Arno has only one Hidden Blade. They said that they made it that way to remark the different styles of every Assassin, no need to check. DipsonDP (talk) 07:59, December 16, 2015 (UTC) 

Oversight?

Hey! (No Spoilers from JTR)

I have just started playing JTR's DLC, but there is something i can't get off my head. Jacob had at least one son by 1888 as Lydia was born in 1893. But, how can we still play as Jacob after he had a child? There's only two possible explanations: 1) Abstergo recovered DNA from his body (Unlikely?) 2) One of Jacob's modern day descendants, the one that gave his DNA to Abstergo, actually descend from a second (Or third?) son/daughter of Jacob that was born after the events of the game, like what happened with Jennifer and Haytham. I just want to know if this is ever explained in the game. Thanks DipsonDP (talk) 18:02, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

It's not explained :( Crook ^{The Constantine District} 18:03, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

That's what I thought! There is also no mention of a son or wife of Jacob, but he ends up with a biological granddaughter AND we can play as him! I hope when you finish the DLC you can update the Database: Jacob Frye (1888) because it may explain some things there, and because someone uploaded the Database update before you finish the DLC so it's said that he's dead. GamerSophie (talk) 18:09, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

I've finished the DLC (as did the person who transcribed the database fyi), no database entries are updated, so it shall remain a mystery, I'm afraid. So little information on Jacob and Evie's personal lives >.< Crook ^{The Constantine District} 18:13, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

When is the 'Last Maharaja' set? I heard somewhere that it will be set in 1893, the year Lydia was born but that's just a rumor I believe. Also, is there a 1888 database for Evie? And if so, can one of you upload it onto the wiki as it has not been done. GamerSophie (talk) 18:16, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

Nesty, the database transcriber, doesn't miss much :P But no, there's no database for Evie, for some weird reason. I don't think there's been confirmation on when "The Last Maharaja" is taking place. I actually thought it would take place before Jack the Ripper, chronologically. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 18:29, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

I thought that they would bring the Last Maharaja out before Jack the Ripper if that is the case, however they aren't so I suspect they will set it after the Jack the Ripper events. GamerSophie (talk) 18:35, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

Well, Duleep dies in 1893, so there's not a whole lot of time if it's set after Jack the Ripper. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 18:46, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

If that's the case, then maybe between the years of 1968-1970 as Evie leaves for India in 1969, but also 1988-1893 because the twins are together then. GamerSophie (talk) 18:57, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

Gallery

Why was it removed? I don't see anything on the talk page about it. --Revan's Exile (talk) 03:31, May 25, 2018 (UTC)

There's a link to the gallery at the foot of the page. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 08:10, May 25, 2018 (UTC)

Jacob’s left eye

Did he lose it to Jack? --Revan's Exile (talk) 00:21, May 26, 2018 (UTC)

Jacob's Death Year

Just out of curiosity, where was Jacob (and Evie's) death years confirmed? 1916 seems to have just popped up on both of their pages without any sources to back them up. Cheers. ---- GamerSophie (talk) 17:41, May 16, 2019 (UTC)

That doesn't suggest the year they've died. Notice how those are preceded by 'fl.'? That means that the following years are when they've been known to be active. In Lydia Frye's database entry it's mentioned how both Evie and Jacob were still alive during the WWI. Sadelyrate (siniath) 19:04, May 16, 2019 (UTC)

Ahhhhh that makes sense. ---- GamerSophie (talk) 05:22, May 17, 2019 (UTC)

I've removed the fl. date from the lede as it was incorrect to place it there, anyways. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 08:38, May 17, 2019 (UTC)