Talk:Kingdom

This is the discussion page for Kingdom. Here, you may discuss improving the article. To discuss the subject itself, use the Forums.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.	Be polite Assume good faith Do not insult other people

Merge with "the Levant"

I just noticed Sora linking to this page for the term "Holy Land" over at the Crimean War article, where I think I had hitherto always linked to the Levant for that (though I don't remember entirely clearly at the moment). Is there a case to be made to merge "Kingdom" with "Levant" or how do we distinguish them? Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 21:40, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

I am against the merge and I think the lede explains why. This article should explicitly be about how the region is represented by the Animus. I would even argue to change the category possibly to Animi virtual locations. And maybe do the same with Frontier and River Valley. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 22:00, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

I think if we assume that our play-map of the Frontier and River Valley are identical to how Desmond explores those regions in the Animus, it would mean that distortions of space are so severe that the genetic memories do not present even a 50% accuracy of the ancestors' memories, dismantling the entire premise of the Animus. If the distances, placement of objects, and geographical proportions of locations are that distorted in the Animus, the user would hardly even perceive how the ancestor had perceived the world, no different than our drastically scaled down view of Egypt where the Great Pyramids are within sight from the outskirts of Alexandria. In the real-world, that would have enormous, world-changing consequences. A single street in Constantinople would only be vaguely recognizable to how Ezio would have remembered it, and what happens when he interacts with objects in his environment but buildings are positioned differently? It would be equivalent to a descendant of mine "reliving" my memories in San Francisco as it appears in WatchDogs 2. Superficially, it looks like San Francisco, but everything is so distorted, not to mention buildings scaled down to not be functional, that it would be impossible to reconstruct my memories in any shape or form using that game map at any place in the entire city. To accept the premise of Assassin's Creed, we cannot accept that our real-world video game maps are identical to how Desmond sees the world of his ancestors or that Desmond relies on virtual models that are so alien to the real places.

Therefore, I am not comfortable with our wiki making a decisive call on how our play-maps translate over to actual lore. The only possibility I can think of is if we accept that Kingdom, the Frontier, and River Valley are Animus designations of particular areas, but they aren't actually scaled down and distorted for the Animus users like they are to us as players. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 22:19, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

I think I might not have adequately touched upon the question of merging. As long as we don't suggest that the video game maps are actually identical to the maps the Animus users are walking around in when reliving their ancestors' memories, I think I'd be fine calling Kingdom, the Frontier, and River Valley Animus designations. However, I think the question still remains if it's necessary to keep them separate from the geographical locations they represent. For example, could "Kingdom" be a section within the article "Levant" explaining that the region is rendered in the Animus? What would be the pros and cons of this? One con I can think of is that the Frontier and River Valley might not correspond exactly to any one concrete geographical region. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 23:24, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

So I think we’d are just going to forever disagree on our personal interpretations on animus stuff like this which will never get resolved without direct Ubisoft input or a game/other media going into very explicit detail of Animus functionality. Anyways I am fine with the compromise of making Kingdom a section of the Levant page. As for the other two do we have a page for New England or the American Northeast? We could make nothing the Fronteir and River Valley sections of such page. If we don't have such page, just start throwing redlinks and Jhonnies will take care of it. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 01:12, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't understand what you meant to say here: "We could make nothing the Fronteir and River Valley sections of such page." Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 01:23, 19 April 2021 (UTC)