Talk:Crimson Jian

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Model differences

Are we assuming artistic license to explain why the model is not the same as Embers and ACCC? The model used for Rebellion is based on the concept art for the movie. Do we ship of Theseus this or what? Lacrossedeamon (talk) 10:19, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Lacrosse brings up a very great point, and I'm not sure if we are right to assume this is the same sword as the one used in Embers and ACCC since normally we go by the weapon model in making these decisions. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 23:10, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

So to be on the safe side for now, should I cut back the appearances to just the film and ACReb, since I was the once who added the full list to begin with? – Darman (talk) 02:30, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

It sounds like the weapon isnt yet out in Rebellion but once it is I'll ask Bunny. But I don't expect much. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 04:13, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

You've already made the edits Darman, and I'm not sure which way is the safer side in this case. I think we can just keep it as is until we can see if we can get some more info from the Rebellion team or when it releases. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 07:10, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

I also realized the manga uses its own unique design as well. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 07:14, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Huh, I did not notice that about the manga, either. Good eye. I just thought that the ACReb sword was the same as from ACCC, Embers, and the Fassbender film since—with the exception of a brief scene as an elder woman at the end of ACCC's "Vengeance"—Shao has always been dressed in black robes with a jian over her shoulder whenever she makes an appearance in AC media. Without Shao having full costume changes like Ezio's trilogy, or even different robe dyes like Arbaaz or Nikolai (even if Animus mods of presumably in-universe designs), I figured any differences with the sword hilt were artistic license. – Darman (talk) 12:20, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Crafting materials is a Rebellion mechanic

I don't think the crafting for legendary weapons in Rebellion should be taken literally. For example, just because we use ancient tablets in the game to make the special personal gear of Black Flag characters, it doesn't necessarily mean that those gear all needed ancient tablets for real. What I mean is that even the in-universe Rebellion has simulations of characters that would be anachronistic for the Spanish Inquisition time period while providing the user with the ability to "make" the unique weapons of those anachronistic characters. That all of these weapons require common crafting materials like the ancient tablets, Damascus steel, gold silk and/or gold bar is not a reliable indicator of what each of these characters' unique weapons were actually made of. These common ingredients are a gameplay mechanic even from an in-universe standpoint.

While I'm at it, I should also point out that I don't see any apparent spoilers for this page. The "spoiler" tag is only for articles which actually have spoilers, not articles which are recent to spoil but don't actually contain any spoilery information, unless you count the weapon stats and crafting materials for this weapon spoilers. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 03:35, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

You make a good point, especially since we do not know whether or where certain characters found the stone slabs, if at all. So if tablets are not part of a weapon's literal crafting materials, should we remove the sentences where they're mentioned as such? Extending off the common crafting items, I'd initially thought after your post that we could limit weapons "actually" made with Damascus steel to the Sword of Altaïr and Al Mualim's jambiya Mirage Blade due to Masyaf being next door to Damascus, followed by any personal weapon made after the irl steel's earliest known history, but then it's the same issue as before, since there's no proof that any character outright knew of the steel to use in forging their weapon. – Darman (talk) 15:15, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Well in the case of the Sword of Altaïr, I could have sworn that a much earlier source once described that it was forged of the same special metal as that of the Armor of Altaïr and the plates that Altaïr added to the Hidden Blade. I only know that the Codex implies this, and I had presumed that it was an Isu metal, but I think Cristophorus corrected me otherwise. Then, I thought the Codex was referring to Damascus steel, but I'm not sure. We should double-check the sources. But as for the other weapons, yes, I would prefer that we do not assume that they were literally all made from Damascus steel with the help of an ancient tablet. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 08:29, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Oh no, I didn't mean that the tablets gave secret knowledge about Damascus steel, just that we've no direct evidence for non-ACReb characters learning about either the steel or tablets to use in crafting. Can we say Altaïr's and Al Mualim's blades literally use the steel or no? The reasoning is admittedly circumstantial based on geography and contemporary history (WP says earliest ref to Damascus steel is c. 800 CE), but it'd also be exceptions to the rule and is technically not confirmed. Maybe the info on Sword of Altaïr is from The Secret Crusade or ACR novel? I'll start correcting the weapons pages accordingly. Guess we should fix that part in the ancient tablets page, too. – Darman (talk) 14:55, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

I also didn't mean that you meant that the tablets gave secret knowledge about Damascus steel. I was referring to the combination of Damascus steel + ancient tablet as crafting ingredients in the game, so we were on the same page. I would not assume that Al Mualim's dagger is made from Damascus steel just because it is more probable for geographical reasons. That is still speculation. The only case that can be made is for the Sword of Altaïr if we double-check old sources. I could have sworn Rebellion was not the first time we have heard of Damascus steel in Assassin's Creed. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 02:25, 11 February 2022 (UTC)