Talk:Callum Lynch

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Descendant of Arno

This is gonna come up in the future, so I figure we might as well try to lay the issue to rest here. One of the projections at the end is obviously Arno, what with his trademark tunic/jacket/whatever it is. From this, I feel like we're meant to conclude Arno is an ancestor of Cal, yes? In the novelization too, Sophia describes the figures she sees, with one being "a French revolutionist".

Jasca, you feel it's too speculative to say so on Cal's article. Care to elaborate why? Crook ^{The Constantine District} 13:22, January 5, 2017 (UTC)

Does Sophia, in the novelisation, say "That's Arno Dorian"? She certainly doesn't say it in the movie, so unless she does, his name shouldn't be in the article at all. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 13:33, January 5, 2017 (UTC)

No, she doesn't literally say it. Still, why would they throw in an Assassin dressed like Arno if they didn't want us to conclude that it is Arno? This really doesn't seem all that far of a stretch to me :s Crook ^{The Constantine District} 13:48, January 5, 2017 (UTC)

Sourcing policy requires, and always has required, explicit confirmation before something can be added to an article. Until such confirmation is provided, Arno names should not be in the main body of the article. Feel free to add it as trivia, if you so wish. - Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 20:16, January 5, 2017 (UTC)

I'd like to throw in my opinion and say that Arno being Cal's ancestor should be on the wiki. You'd be hard-pressed to prove that he's not considering all the proof, and part of life is making inferences. If everything had to be 100% confirmed before we wrote anything on this wiki, it would be nigh empty Monsieurdorito (talk) 00:23, January 6, 2017 (UTC)  

Why wouldn't Arno be his ancestor when both Mary Lynch and Hubert Marchand were in that vision ? (btw I can't remember if Cal was still plugged into the Animus at that point, was he ?) —Touloir, Master Pisspot, French AC wikia admin 02:31, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

Wait, let me get this straight. Has there ever been any source that has explicitly said that Arno is the ancestor of Callum, or the ancestor of Mary Lynch? Because that's a different matter than whether or not Arno appeared in the vision. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 02:51, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

No - I think people seized on the "ancestor of Mary Lynch" because Aguilar is one as well. But Arno could be an ancestor of either Mary or Joseph, really. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 11:02, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

Short answer: no. But as far as I can remember, Callum only sees Aguilar/his ancestors when suffering a Bleeding Effect. Not their environment – including surrounding people. So did Desmond. So I think it's fair to assume that all these Assassins were Cal's ancestors. Unless, of course, if Cal was still plugged in. —Touloir, Master Pisspot, French AC wikia admin 03:00, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

This is a blockbuster movie and scenarists for such movies are not known for their subtility, if there is a guy described as a French Revolution Assassin in the Novel who is dressed as Arno in the Movie, then it doesn't seems too far-fetched to conclude that the guy is indeed Arno Dorian.

In the Novel, while talking to herself, Sophia identified the group of Assassins dubbing Callum as his ancestors. Regarding Arno being the ancestor of Mary, it make more sense that Arno is in fact the ancestor of Joseph, since the Templars had Joseph put into the Animus at some point and access to Arno's memories prior to Callum capture, using it to make a game. Maxattac (talk) 03:09, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure if Arno's memories were ever made into a game - regardless, Abstergo Entertainment already got hold of them via a descendant from Montreal. They would not have needed Joseph for that. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 11:02, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

I don't even understand how those projections of these people ever occurred. It's not the Bleeding Effect because those around him, including Sophia and the other Assassins could see them so he wasn't merely hallucinating. Therefore, it must have been through the Animus, but I don't understand how they randomly all appeared around him and interacted with him. Maybe if we understood what they are and how they came to manifest themselves, we would better be able to make correct conclusions about it. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 17:34, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

Honestly, the only real counter-argument I can think of that could call into question whether they're Cal's ancestors (I mean, there's his mom, his dad, Aguilar AND Hubert Marchand, the guy on Cal's family tree that Sophia set up in her office) is that there's that woman that Sophia sees. The novel explicitly states that she has her face, so it's like with Cal-Aguilar, she's almost certainly an ancestor of her. How she's conjured up, I have no idea, given Sophia isn't even connected to the Animus at that point.

Regardless, with this we are drifting away a little from the actual issue: is Arno an ancestor of Cal? I wager he is, even if the movie doesn't scream in our faces like "IT'S ARNO DORIAN, HE'S TOTALLY RELATED TO CAL". It sucks that I can't really ask the other admins because they haven't seen the movie yet :/ Crook ^{The Constantine District} 17:48, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

So the Sophia look a like is probably the woman Aguilar shacks up with when he continues his line since she happens to have the same style of facial decorations that Maria and Aguilar had. Meaning Sophia is like Cal's nth cousin. No one has mentioned the possibility of it being a Synch Nexus that brought all the assassins together like that. If it is a synch nexus I believe they're all his ancestors but don't know if Arno or just a similarly dressed assassin. Otherwise some could just be imprints in the animus like Clay was.Lacrossedeamon (talk) 21:11, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

Clay created and uploaded an artificial construct of himself into the Animus, it's probably safe to say that none of Cal's ancestors did that. It didn't really look like a Synch Nexus, since that's described as an individual fully experiencing the genetic memories of one or more of their ancestors, with nothing left to observe. Cal only relived Aguilar's memories, and even then he didn't really follow him until the end. The Wikia Editor (talk) 16:28, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

Just came back from seeing the movie, I distinctly noticed Callum still being connected to the Animus (epidural unit still connected to the base of his skull) though that doesn't really explain how/what Sophia saw. EvilOverlord1989 (talk) 22:11, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

Maybe it was different memories of the Animus coming together at once? On topic, I'm sure that there will be a sequel, or a video game, or a comic, or something that will eventually answer this topic's question. Roger Murtaugh (talk) 22:26, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

Mmm, the first thing Sophia asks upon seeing the projections is "Is it a memory?" though, and her assistant says it isn't :/ Crook ^{The Constantine District} 22:32, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

It could have been aspects of different memories merging together? Technically, that wouldn't be a memory, as it'd be different moments together and the memories didn't specifically happen that way. I'm not sure. Roger Murtaugh (talk) 22:36, January 6, 2017 (UTC)

It seems as though the other Assassins were able to see it too. Honestly, I think the producers just BS'd this one :-/ to be blunt, and didn't think it through or bother with the mechanics behind the Bleeding Effect or the Animus. They just decided to suddenly have all these projections of random ancestors? of Callum come together for plot purposes without any explanation. I thought Sophia was able to see it because they could see apparitions or holograms of what Callum was experiencing inside the Animus. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 04:24, January 7, 2017 (UTC)

Aymar Azaizia just confirmed in a Reddit AMA that it was indeed Arno that was shown in that scene, so that pretty much confirms a few things. JazeBlack (talk) 20:12, March 21, 2017 (UTC)

Who? Source please. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 13:11, March 23, 2017 (UTC)

I've already sourced it in the article. The Wikia Editor (talk) 14:14, March 23, 2017 (UTC)

My mistake. I'd sourced it on Arno's page but not this one. I've added the source now. The Wikia Editor (talk) 14:21, March 23, 2017 (UTC)