Talk:Aita

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Fourth Solution

I'm pretty positive that in AC3 Juno tells Desmond that the fourth solution encompassed changing what they were and that Aita volunteered for the experiment. There was a failure and he "was made a prisoner of the machines" which I think means that he could not have survived without machines anymore.

It was only in the section about the next solution that Juno began talking about transferring minds and at that point Aita seems to have already been out of the picture.

Why then does AC4 claim that Aita volunteered for the mind transference experiment and had to suffer from a failure of that experiment? The games seem to contradict each other regarding the nature of the experiment which ultimately led to Aita's death. 93.195.70.65 10:02, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

If you collect all messages in a bottle in AC4, the "The Sage" database entry gets updated with more background info on the Sages. I'm currently having breakfast and catching up on my TV shows, but after that I'll write out the updated version here on the wiki. If you linger for or come back in about an hour, I think it should be up. -- Master Sima Yi _Talk 10:34, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Take a look here. -- Master Sima Yi _Talk 11:19, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

AC4 doesn't claim Aita volunteered for anything, as far as I'm aware. It appears that this 'transference' (read: cloning) took place after his death, and was an act completely independent of the Solutions. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 11:33, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

I have read all of that stuff, guys.. AC4 definitely claims that Aita volunteered for the mind transference experiment. Please read the bottled messages. They clearly tell you about how Juno came up with the mind transference idea, that she told Aita about it and asked him to volunteer for it and that the experiment then went wrong.

And no, transference is not the cloning. It was about transfering minds into machines or bodies. You really should read the bottled letters. They tell you how Juno came up with the cloning plan to save Aita after the transference experiment went wrong. So that is something different entirely.

And all of that still does not explain how as of AC4 suddenly the transference experiment is supposedly the one that went wrong and led to Aita's death. Because as I already said, in AC3 Juno talks about transferring minds as well but only AFTER Aita is already dead. 87.159.76.186 20:44, November 22, 2013 (UTC)

You should take a look at both the dialogue from Assassin's Creed III, and the messages.

Fifth conversation with Juno, Assassin's Creed III:

A new world approached. One that was dark and cold. It would consume us. For we were flesh and flesh is frail. Though suits and shields might offer comfort – such adornments would not suffice... Not to save us all... So we sought to change what we were. In this manner we might thrive in a world made poisonous... It was Aita who volunteered to see if it might be done. Aita, my husband, my love. In the end it changed him... Ruined him... He was made a prisoner of the machines. The body might survive – but his mind became brittle to the touch... He begged me for release. For days – for weeks – for months. I pleaded with him to give us more time to find another way. But there wasn't one. Not for him. Not for us...

Sixth conversation with Juno, Assassin's Creed III:

What is consciousness but a series of electrical impulses... And the body a vessel to hold these sparks. But it is weak. In time, it decays and crumbles into dust... We asked ourselves, then: what if it might be replaced – with something stronger. Something better. So we forged a new vessel. One that might endure. It proved easy enough to enter... But to leave... To leave required something more... Something wrong... And so this too they abandoned. I wondered, though... were they right to turn away...

"Another fryghtfull Reverie", Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag:

"Beloved," said she, a voice so intimate and familiar, "Our Colleagues conspire against us. They dither and sigh, resign'd to their Fates, content to champion the Humans. But there is Hope for us; there is a chance we might inure our Bodies to the chilling Worlde, the poison'd Atmosphere, and the war itself. Will you aid me? Will you submit?"

And here, I hear my owne Voice in answer;--"Yes, Beloved. What must I do?"

"Tranference," said she "The shuttling of our Mindes from these old Bodies into new Forms. Mechanical bodies perhaps, or into those of our Instruments, our Humans. In short, I believe there may be a way to transfer all we knowe and all we are into other forms... in this way we may survive the coming Cataclysm and live to see our People repopulate the Earth, and recover her from those we foolishly set loose upon it."

"A Secret Incomprehensible", Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag:

In my original Lyfe, I died in the midst of my Beloved's experiment. This Method of which she spoke - of the Transference of Mind into Machine, and from thence into a Human Body - was a Failure. Yet an instructive one, I believe. For in my last Moments, I Recollect her comforts to me, and a cleare Promise that my death would not be an end, but a beginning.

"There is another Way, Beloved," said she to me, "Imperfect, yet possible. Firstly, I will agree to carry out Minerva's experiments, her terrible Gift to the Humans. Yet my purpose will be contrary;-- my purpose will be your Immortality! In collecting Samples of the Code in the Human's blood, I will add my own Augmentations;-- Samples of your Code, transfigured in such a way that when the proper Pieces come together, it may further transfigure the Zygote of a newly conceived Child. In this Way, you shall be reborn, again and again throughout the Ages. With luck, this recessive Recurrence shall never die out, but travell on like a Raft downstream along the Tide of Inheritance."

"Transference" is not only Juno's 'sixth solution'. It refers to the transferring of the mind to any other vessel. The fith solution was Aita transferring his mind into the machines, and into a human body (as we can see during the conversation). This experiment failed. The sixth solution is about transference as well, though in this one their own bodies would be replaced with 'something better' -- surely not a machine and definitely not a human body. A non-physical body, that would not decay. Aita indeed died before that sixth solution, but Juno made use of that one herself.

So to answer your question: Juno only talks about transferring minds into a non-physical body (something better) after Aita's death, but it was the experiment to transfer a mind into a machine and to a human body that failed. -- Master Sima Yi _Talk 23:13, November 22, 2013 (UTC)

Ditto. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 23:56, November 22, 2013 (UTC)

If this is how it is meant to be then it wasn't told very well as there are still a few problematic bits. We don't know for sure that it really was a human body in the AC3 cutscene. It is a possibility but maybe that was just what Aita originally looked like.

Aside from that, why does Juno only mention mind transference in the next scene? Why not talk about transference from the beginning? In the scene with Aita she doesn't even hint at an actual transference. She only uses the word "change", even repeatedly. And in the next scene it appears like she introduces a completely new idea when she talks about transferring minds. 80.141.192.197 20:47, November 23, 2013 (UTC)

No, it is a human body. Take a look at this and take into consideration that the Sages are shaped in Aita's image; they don't look like the body Aita died in. Why she didn't bring it up in the scene Aita died in surely is because that 'better' form wasn't a solution at that point yet. That transference is not an 'actual transference', if it is at all. She doesn't mention that word whatsoever in the sixth solution. -- Master Sima Yi _Talk 21:00, November 23, 2013 (UTC)

You are right, taking that other part into consideration, it really does look to be a human body. Seems a lot more convincing now but I still wonder why she didn't just say "we tried to put our minds into human bodies"? It could still be that originally they tried to change their bodies so their physiology would be like that of human bodies. Could still be a slight retcon there. Is there any more evidence in AC3 which would support the idea of actual mind transference? 80.141.192.197 09:09, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean? -- Master Sima Yi _Talk 10:21, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

Well, we have pretty much established the thing with the human body. But what exactly was the nature of the experiment? It may have been mind transference into a human body but it may just as well have been some sort of genetical manipulation of their own bodies to turn them into human like bodies. Does AC3 say anything else about this? I just find it strange that Juno did not talk about transferring minds from the beginning. In the scene with Aita she just talks about changing themselves which does not necessarily mean transferring minds. 87.159.92.118 15:47, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

Reincarnation

How could Roberts be the reincarnation of Aita if Aita's previous incarnation, Tom Kanavagh died in 1706 (Roberts was alive during this time)? ParadisecityXO (talk) 14:03, September 12, 2014 (UTC)

Well it's a randomized process because every human is carrying Aita's DNA. So there could be more than one Sage. --Alientraveller (talk) 15:53, September 12, 2014 (UTC)

Every human? I thought one in every ten million (I think) humans are decsended from the First Civilization. And how comes in 75000 years (or at least 4000 years of recorded history), there have only been 8 confirmed sages? ParadisecityXO (talk) 15:08, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

William was referring to the number of people whose high concentration of First Civ genes would allow them to wield Pieces of Eden (contrast Ezio and Leonardo with Niccolo and Mario before the Battle of Forli). Juno inserted Aita's genetic code as junk DNA into the human genome, it was not the result of interbreeding. Furthermore, Abstergo Entertainment noted the number of Sages was probably higher than the merely recorded seven mentioned at the start at the game (as we later discover). Perhaps we don't express these points clearly enough in our Sages article? --Alientraveller (talk) 15:38, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

One in ten million has enough concentration of First Civilization DNA to effectively use the Pieces of Eden. Everyone has potential to use Eagle Vision, and everyone can be overwritten by Aita's DNA at conception. --Kainzorus Prime ⚜ ^{Walkie-talkie} 15:40, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

If that were true, then how come only a few select people can use Eagle Vision while most people in the world can't? And only sages look like Aita (how does this genetic code work if different people of different nations can become Aita incarnate; Tom being a Boston native and Roberts a Welsh)? One might think all humans are related and apparently share the DNA of the Greco-Roman god of the underworld. ParadisecityXO (talk) 22:13, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

Here's a quote from Ms. Read, which should clear up your issue regarding Eagle Vision: "Every man and woman on this Earth has in them a kind of intuition hidden deep away. Most never find it. Others it takes years to tease out. But for a rare few it comes as natural as breathing." The rare few being our protagonists, obviously.

The reason everybody can become a reincarnation of Aita is because Juno inserted genetic code as junk DNA into the human genome (this is copy paste from what Alientraveller pointed out two posts above btw). This means that if the circumstances are right, the junk DNA of Aita can overwrite the DNA of a child at the point of conception. We all carry our own DNA, but within that DNA exists the potential for our offspring to become a reincarnation of Aita. That child will then be born with the memories of Aita, but is otherwise a normal human being. I don't think they inherit Aita's personality, as Kavanagh never seems to become malevolent towards other humans the way Roberts and John do.Crook ^{The Constantine District} 22:21, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

But that's what I was asking earlier, if certain men can become Aita incarnate at point of conception, then how were both Kavanagh and Roberts Aita at the same time? ParadisecityXO (talk) 23:38, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

magic, lol

No, seriously, we don't know. We don't know the limits of this reincarnation, so there's no reason to question there being two Sages at once. There was probably at least a dozen at any given time. --Crimson Knight _Intercom 23:45, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

It's not certain men, it's potentially every human being that can be overwritten into a clone of Aita. (Yikes.) Nothing precludes more than one Sage existing at a time, which was my original point. --Alientraveller (talk) 23:43, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

To add to this: Sages are not or do not "become" Aita. To call them reincarnations is probably inaccurate because they are all still individuals with unique personalities, just forged from the same basic dna. They merely inherit the memories of this ancient First Civilization member, which to some degree influences their lives yes, but they do not need to dominate them - this is evidenced by the fact that John and to a lesser degree Roberts both choose a life in servitude of returning Juno to life; by contrast, Kavanagh does no such thing.Crook ^{The Constantine District} 23:46, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

It must be a complex DNA system for (2) sages to be born in the same decade (sometimes), then come back after a few centuries. Also how the Mayans and Aztecs came to hold him in high regard while he was worshiped as Hades and Pluto in the Greco-Roman world (and since he built the Observatory in Jamaica). ParadisecityXO (talk) 21:16, September 23, 2014 (UTC)

Personality retcon

This is an ongoing discussion.

The Aita seen in Thom Kavanagh's letters seems neutral if not supportive to Minerva's plans to help the humans before being overruled by Juno. I would say this is at odds with his later depictions, specifically Odyssey, but I am not sure how well it squares with Roberts and Standish iterations and if this is enough to mention in either the personality section or the BTS. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 05:21, 19 October 2024 (UTC)