Talk:Mary Read

Join the Ranks, Read!!

Well it's great to here Mary Read is actually confirmed in the game, but she was another female pirate besides Anne Bonny and was a partner in crime with Bonny and Calico Jack. So there we go. And even make her a member of the Assassins? Huh. Interesting.

M4 C-Corp (talk) 16:27, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Article and image talk pages are not really the place for this. Perhaps try a forum. Stormbeast ♉ ^{The Helpful Place} 16:30, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

James Kidd

I knew the moment I heard Kidd talk, I was like "I don't believe your a man...." If he was 'brealy out of his teens' he'd be at least 15 16 & by then would of had a deep voice, plus, his (her? IT!) facial features looked too lady-like to me! (Harlan1500 (talk) 03:34, November 2, 2013 (UTC))

DLC

what would happen if mary read didnt die what would happen if she went with edward kenway will their be a dlc about her

I doubt they'll be going the "alternative reality" DLC route again, so canonically, Mary Read died in that prison. About what would happen in said hypothetical DLC and what wouldn't, I can't say, really (I'm not Ubisoft :s). The only DLC that's been confirmed so far is the one about Adéwalé.

Also, please sign your posts and use proper punctuation and grammar :) Crook ^{The Constantine District} 08:11, November 5, 2013 (UTC)

What happened to Adewale?

So I was reading a little about the Jackdaw and came across an article about Anne Bonny (sorry if I said it wrong or spelled it wrong). On her page it said that she was the second quatermaster of the Jackdaw. What happen to Adewale?TwixBreak (talk) 14:36, November 5, 2013 (UTC)

Adéwalé left Edward and the Jackdaw to join the Assassins, and Anne Bonny became the new quartermaster. Adéwalé's story will be continued in an upcoming DLC. Though, this is hardly the right place to ask, seeing as it is Mary Read's talk page. Next time you might want to make a forum or blog. Nesty ^{Contact me!} 14:45, November 5, 2013 (UTC)

Assassin creed black flag was amazing but it broke my heart when mary read died will their be a dlc were mary read was alive and she survied the prsion break and she went with edward 69.121.174.236 18:59, November 5, 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry i didn't think of that! This is my first time ever having an account like this. But thanks for the info. I'm like to sequence seven on Ac4. Thanks for the info! TwixBreak (talk) 20:30, November 5, 2013 (UTC)

Mary Read DLC

Assassin creed black flag was amazing but it broke my heart when mary read died will their be a dlc were mary read was alive and she survied the prsion break and she went with edward 69.121.174.236 18:59, November 5, 2013 (UTC)69.121.174.236 19:00, November 5, 2013 (UTC)

No. -- Master Sima Yi _Talk 19:02, November 5, 2013 (UTC)

Mary Read's child?

Okay, Mary Read wasn't hung due to being pregnant and subsequently died after giving birth. The child is currently unknown, but is there any backstory about who the father is? Could it be someone with 'the sense'?

Bartlmay (talk) 16:32, November 10, 2013 (UTC)

There's almost zero information on the father :P I think it's mentioned in-game that he was a young pirate that fought along with Anne and Mary when they were found by the British, though he was killed in the fight. That's basically all we have on him and all we know about Mary's child is that it's a boy. Anything else is most likely speculation :) Crook ^{The Constantine District} 16:47, November 10, 2013 (UTC)

I got to the point in-game that describes the father of Mary's child as the only non drunk Pirate left to fight. I did not catch that he was definately killed. I guess it's my conspiracy mind that says without a body there may not be a death. Thus I see a conspiracy that the father may be Templar plant. When Edward makes his first visit to Tulum Mary is there and tells  Ah Tabai that Edwrd has the sense. This tells me that she has the sense. This in turn tells me that the child of Mary would probably have the sense. The child that was taken away by the British while Mary was giving birth in prison. (Listen as you approach the last room of cells that Mary and Anne are in.) Sorry I can get caught up in backstories. Bartlmay (talk) 02:57, November 17, 2013 (UTC)

It's mentioned somewhere that the unknown guy who helped fight with Read and Bonny was Flemish, and that Bonny herself mentioned it was him who Read had romantic interest in. Or something, I haven't played Black Flag much since completing it. Slate Vesper (talk) 20:29, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

I'm 99% sure the pirate was killed in combat (Anne Bonny says so at one point), so the conspiracy theories really don't make that much sense. It's looking for things that aren't there, like people claiming Haytham was supposedly the child of Edward and Mary (the dates don't match up) :/ Crook ^{The Constantine District} 21:22, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

This video is a pretty good reference--at 6:36 Edward and Anne have their conversation about the father of Mary's child, and Anne confirms who it was and that he died when she and Mary were captured. She doesn't really go into their relationship, though.

(To be honest, I actually think that Haytham being Edward and Mary's kid would have been perfect given the Templar-related plot developments at the trial--that is, if it wouldn't have created a plot hole big enough to sail a galleon through by having Edward's story continue after Haytham's conception. Eh, can't have it all.)

Molotov.cockroach (talk) 08:31, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

The father of Mary's child was indeed the man who fought, and died, alongside Mary and Anne. With regards to people's speculation that either Mary or -more likely - Anne is the father mother of Haytham, that has already been denied by the developers. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 09:33, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

The father of Haytham, you say? Now that would've been interesting . . . --Molotov.cockroach (talk) 10:02, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 09:19, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

Picture

I believe we should use a picture of her "dressed" as James Kidd. That's the way she dressed for most of her life in the Carribbean, as well as most of the game. It's the most accurate portrayal of her, rather than when she dressed as a woman for 5 minutes of the game (or 10, if you include when she was forced to at the end of the game, which I wouldn't). LordSchmee (talk) 09:39, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

I disagree. First of all, it isn't the way she was dressed for most of her life in the Carribbean, as evidenced when Edward asks "Your name is not James, is it?" and she answers with "Not most days." Furthermore, this is her actual self, not the person she pretends to be, thus the female persona has preference over the male persona. Nesty ^{Contact me!} 09:54, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

Kidd is just a persona. The article is about the actual character, and the image should relect that. --Kainzorus Prime ^{Walkie-talkie} 09:55, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

The "not most days" came across more as a joke. If you know anything about Mary Read as a person you'll know that she was dressed as a boy from WAY younger than when she was in the game. Like, from childhood. So she was actually more male than she was female, and I believe this article should reflect that. As for it being about the "actual character" - that doesn't change my point any. Mary Read, as a person, dressed as a male for most of her life. Various biographies confirm this. It was part of her personality (the whole James Kidd thing was simply added for the game).

EDIT: She actually took over her brother's life early in childhood when he died. She continued being male through her teenage years and into her adult life. She joined the Dutch military as a male, served there for a long time, then joined the pirates in the West Indies as a male. Only two people ever found out she was female, and she only ever revealed herself as female exactly one time in her life - her trial, where she was forced to appear as a woman.

To call that "just a persona" is as ignorant as claiming that a transgendered person should be referred to as their biological sex.

So, really, her FEMALE appearance is a persona - one that she does not often use. Her male appearance is her true appearance, the one she utilises in her day to day life. She only appears female (in the game) to trick people. She never appeared female IRL 'til her trial.

And if nothing else there definitely should be an image for both. James should be the main image (for the reasons stated above) and the image of her dressed as a female should be in the gallery, or the main body. LordSchmee (talk) 12:08, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

"pl. personas The role that one assumes or displays in public or society; one's public image or personality, as distinguished from the inner self."

This literal definition points to "James Kidd" as the persona, the fake identity that is displayed in public. "Mary Read" is the actual, true person, which should take precedence over any identities she may have assumed throughout her life. It doesn't matter that she may have spent more time in the role of James Kidd, at the end of the day, she is Mary Read and plays James Kidd.

Also, Mary Read revealed herself to be female a lot earlier than her trial. She revealed herself to Edward when going after Laurens Prins. After said mission is done, she mentions she is not James Kidd "on most days", and goes by Mary Read to "them I call friends" (whoever that may be, the Assassins maybe?). She later befriends Anne Bonny and though she keeps up the pretense for a while, Anne Bonny eventually figures out Mary's true gender. Mary subsequently revealed her gender to Jack Rackham, who was too dim-witted to see through the disguise and believed Mary, as James, was attempting to woo Anne away from him.

I do agree there should be an image in the gallery depicting Kidd, but Mary Read should definitely be the main image. Crook ^{The Constantine District} 21:59, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

I'm on the fence on this one. Since this is the Assassin's Creed wiki, we have to abide by what the canon of the series shows, and it shows Mary revealing her identity and dressing as a woman long before her trial. It's also clear that, while she does dress as Kidd frequently, she does not regard this alone as her true self. The fact that she presents herself as female to those she trusts (including Edward, Anne, and Ah Tabai) and does not ask them to respect the Kidd identity as her true one speaks to that.

On the other hand, Mary does appear most frequently in the Kidd get-up, and despite the name, she really doesn't seem to separate the two in terms of her identity. She doesn't change anything about her behavior or attitudes between the two, it's just that she assumes a psuedonym and encourages the belief that she's a man sometimes. So, effectively, any picture of Kidd is a picture of Mary, so just in terms of appearance frequency I feel like a render of her in her masculine attire would probably be better.

Molotov.cockroach (talk) 08:27, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

I asked Darby himself for some input, given that he wrote the character and studied the real Mary intimately (you know, Word of God and all that), and:

https://twitter.com/DarbyMcDevitt/status/404735284015022080

LordSchmee (talk) 09:12, November 25, 2013 (UTC)