Talk:Egyptian mythology

This is the discussion page for Egyptian mythology. Here, you may discuss improving the article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.	Be polite Assume good faith Do not insult other people

Move to "Egyptian religion"

I would suggest that this article be renamed to "Egyptian religion" because in the context of Assassin's Creed: Origins, the topic concerns more of the actual religion than an ancient collection of myths that has faded into fantasy with the sands of time. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 00:32, September 19, 2018 (UTC)

In that case I’d say we should call it Ancient or Pharonic Egyptian Religion as Egyptian religion could be construed as religion of Egypt which is now mainly Islam and Coptic Christianity. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 03:55, September 19, 2018 (UTC)

I did think that was the obvious solution, but I also thought that since in the context of AC, the main time frame of Egypt is not contemporary Egypt, but Egypt in classical antiquity (heck not even exactly ancient Egypt), it might not be proper to have to modify it with that descriptor. After all, this is the indigenous Egyptian religion, the Egyptian religion, not a religion in Egypt; if our reference point is Egypt as it was... indigenous Egypt, shouldn't a hypothetical article on contemporary religion in Egypt be the one needing disambiguating descriptors instead? Of course, a rebuttal would still be that indigenous Egyptian religion is commonly called "ancient Egyptian religion", but I just do not think it is very proper. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 05:06, September 19, 2018 (UTC)

That is to say, whereas Wikipedia's page on Egyptian religion is a disambiguation between religion in Egypt and Ancient Egyptian religion, I would argue that in the context of AC, "ancient Egyptian religion" is the primary topic for the name Egyptian religion per the Manual of Style. The name "ancient Egyptian religion", which is merely descriptive, is only used when it is necessary to distinguish between "religion in Egypt" and the indigenous Egyptian religion. In this case, this is not necessary. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 05:13, September 19, 2018 (UTC)

Fair enough but should it get a what is your name banner as “Egyptian religion” is more a definition rather than a name for it. Although they might not have even had an actual name for their belief system to begin with. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 05:40, September 19, 2018 (UTC)

It’s a shame Pharaonism was used for a nationalist movement and Kemetism is neopagan. Atenism got it’s own distinct name. Damn this whole thing is giving me flash backs to the Copts as the ethnic identity discussion. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 05:59, September 19, 2018 (UTC)

Separation of Isu and deities

Given everything in Odyssey, might it be a good idea to separate the Isu from the Greek deities? Given lack of evidence that it was actually the Isu Jupiter going around trying to bonk anything that moved, and actually the counterevidence that it was the Kretan Bull that caused the Minotaur, it would be certainly worth it to consider, imo. Sadelyrate (siniath) 12:11, November 17, 2018 (UTC)

I suggest having a section in the Isu person's article detailing how they influenced certain cultures' mythology instead of having separate pages. IE on Jupiter’s page have a section called Influence on Hellenistic religions (Greek/Roman/Etruscan) with all the facts about him from a mythological standpoint mentions in the games. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 12:50, November 17, 2018 (UTC)

But every time the deities are named in, say, Odyssey or Origins, the people are thinking of the character of the deity, not the Isu the deity might be based on. Similarly, Athena's statues don't depict the Isu known as Minerva, after all. Sadelyrate (siniath) 12:58, November 17, 2018 (UTC)

I’d argue that the statues depict a cultural memory of a real person but things morph over the millennia since she’s died and the numerous language changes from Isuan (?) to Greek. Or would you have be like Wikipedia's Jesus and Histoircal Jesus page’s.Lacrossedeamon (talk) 13:17, November 17, 2018 (UTC)

Compare, rather, the fact that both Jesus and Mithras have their own pages, despite sharing the story. Otherwise...why's there the big brouhaha about Aita being Juno's husband, when that was Jupiter? Speaking of Aita, why not mention he's Jupiter's brother? Sadelyrate (siniath) 14:32, November 17, 2018 (UTC)

My theory behind Aita being Juno's husband is because they might also be Osiris and Isis. Same reason why Hephaestus is older than Juno because he’s actually Ptah or Voltumna. The reason we can’t mention that Aita and Jupiter are brothers is because we don’t know that. We know they are portrayed as such in mythology but as I said over time things get, lost, confused, and changed, but I don’t feel it means we need new pages for them as deities. I think a section in the Greek religion page and a section in their Isu basis is sufficient. However I do feel we should get other editors to weigh in on this. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 15:34, November 17, 2018 (UTC)

Same would go if Juno and Jupiter were variants of Osiris and Isis, for Hera and Zeus were siblings, too. Lacking a mention in-game hasn't stopped people in this wiki from claiming Poseidon and Hades as Jupiter and Juno's brother, even if under the names of Zeus and Hera. Which highlights my point. Sadelyrate (siniath) 16:10, November 17, 2018 (UTC)

Unless they are framing it from a mythological stand point, those people are in the wrong to say anyone is Jupiter’s brother as we don’t know if he even had siblings. But if they say that "Jupiter as depicted in Greek myths was considered the brother of Hades, Poseidon, etc." then I think that is fine but again would fall under a section either called Legacy or Influence on Hellenistic religion. As an aside I have Aita and Osiris be counterparts since they were both Underworld deities being syncretized to form Serapis (well Hades and Osiris were). Lacrossedeamon (talk) 16:20, November 17, 2018 (UTC)

Poseidon "is also the brother of Zeus and Hades". So no, they don't say 'Jupiter'... save that 'Zeus' is just a redirect to Jupiter, like 'Hera' is to 'Juno'. Sadelyrate (siniath) 16:24, November 17, 2018 (UTC)