User talk:Themeritcoba

Welcome to the Order, Themeritcoba!

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Feel free to contact me on my talkpage if you need anything. Sol Pacificus (talk) 03:01, July 20, 2019 (UTC)

Socratic method & and our guidelines

Hello Thermeritcoba, I happened to chance upon your edit to the Trivia/BtS of "Sokrates" where you critique the game's presentation of the Socratic method and offer an example via the side-quest "On a High Horse". It actually goes against our guidelines on this wiki (and in fact, Wikipedia and most wikis in general) to add one's own personal opinions and analyses to articles. Please refer to our manual of style or alternatively Wikipedia's page on no original research for more information. That aside, it doesn't mean that your points were worthless, just that it wasn't the right place for them. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 10:05, March 25, 2020 (UTC)

On the game's Socratic method

As another aside, I could not help but comment a little on those points to clarify the context of the Socratic method as it manifests in the game in the hopes that it may be informative and helpful.

The historical Sokrates' motive was never to assert normative claims but to examine whatever underlying conflicts may be hidden in an individuals' reasoning or principles—no matter what they were. For that reason, I don't believe that the character's intention in "On a High Horse" or his other side-quests is to make the point that "it is not what is decided that matters most, but why one chooses". This, too, would constitute a normative claim, i.e. an argument he is trying to make, but Sokrates' only argument was always that he was making no argument. His point isn't that one's motivation ultimately is what matters the most; in fact, he has no point other than to compel the protagonist to reflect on the different perspectives around their action for the sake of practising critical thinking.

This leads to the black-and-white fallacy you mentioned that the player is forced into where we are under-equipped to make strong arguments against Sokrates. You made valid points about other unexplored possibilities which makes the side-quests rather frustrating. However, I don't think this problem is with Sokrates or the game's presentation of the Sokratic method itself but with the limitations on roleplaying by the game. At the end of the day, we do not have exceptional freedom to define the personality of the protagonist; there is a certain attitude that the protagonist inclines towards. My interpretation of the dialogue choices given to us for the Eagle-Bearer to respond to Sokrates has always been that the canon protagonist, i.e. Kassandra, just isn't as mentally invested in these philosophical reflections as we ourselves might be. Lack of ways to argue with Sokrates isn't because of a fallacy on the part of the developers or the character of Sokrates but because the protagonist couldn't conceive of these alternatives.

Putting this together with Sokrates' actual intention with his inquiries, it is not that Sokrates (or the game's exercise) forces the player into a narrow black-and-white fallacy where it can be only one way or the other; it is that Sokrates is examining the particulars of the protagonist's choice, whatever that happens to be. These choices can be limitless in reality, but those we are presented with in the game just happens to be that the only choices conceived by the protagonist, partly for simplicity, so Sokrates examines those.

I hope this clarifies the context of the game's Sokrates line of side-quests. :) Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 10:05, March 25, 2020 (UTC)