I'm curious as to where you found Desmond's genealogy image.Sep780 18:14, March 13, 2012 (UTC)
I saw it on Desmond's wiki, and I saved it. Then I asked if anyone had a better verson of it because when I zoom in on it, it gets blurry. Subject 16 18 05:30, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
Hi,
Regarding the photo you uploaded about Desmond's family tree, I cannot view it clearly.
Are these good enough? Subject 16 18 05:30, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
You know those are both completely wrong and speculative, right? I've made family trees here based on actual facts and not speculation. -- Master Sima Yi 11:03, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
Also, the images are unsourced. Please source them via the Image policy otherwise they will be deleted soon. -- Master Sima Yi 11:13, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
I see... Assuming if I read the Image policy correctly, would you mind if one is made using your family tree? Subject 16 18 05:30, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
I just noticed how speculatory those two images were... How foolish I feel! Subject 16 18 02:35, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
If it will only be used on here, then I wouldn't mind. If the image will be used on other sites, then I would mind. -- Master Sima Yi 06:22, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
I'll get to working, then. Subject 16 18 06:28, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
Sima, if you don't mind, I'd like to point out a small detail you may have overlooked in the Auditore part of your family tree. This image shows that Domenico Auditore is Giovanni's great-grandfather, so technically, the number of generations isn't unknown. Domenico's son's name is also shown but it's a bit too unclear to read (could be Ilario). Ubi should've added a higher res version of that chart either in the game or the Encyclopedia. Gabriel Auditore 10:44, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
I know, but I don't know if it would look better to add "Unknown person" two times. Would just be stretching it unnecessarily. And I'd also have to add their spouses. Personally I find the whole Auditore family tree to be a bit vague because Domenico's son was born not too long after 1296, while Giovanni was born in 1436. There must have been at least three generations between them, I would think. -- Master Sima Yi 11:47, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
You're right, it does look better as it is. Maybe write "2 Generations" or something instead lol. Gabriel Auditore 13:30, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
Sima, I did them. Yes, them. Aside from doing a full Desmond chart showing his linage from Aquilus to his parents, I did Altair, Ezio, Aquilus and Accipiter, and Nikolai and Daniel Cross. Do you want those as well? 'Cause I'm still posting them. And if you could, can you tell me if the full Desmond chart is clear enough?
Desmond's Family Tree- from Aquilus to his parents
From Umar ibn La'Ahad to Desmond Miles
From Aquilus and Accipiter to Desmond Miles and Jonathan Hawk
They look alright, if a little sloppy at times. Though you didn't get Aquilus' family tree completely right, Accipiter is Aquilus' cousin but we don't know if it is from his mother or father's side. What do you want to use them for? -- Master Sima Yi 08:30, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, they look a bit sloppy, but when I tried to even it out, my stomach would start hurting badly so leaving them like that was the best looking option. I was thinking, for the Daniel and Nikolai one, we could post it on one of their pages. For the others, maybe we put the full Desmond one on his page, the Umar to Desmond on Altair's page, and the Domenico to Desmond on Ezio's page. What do you think should be done about Aquilus? Subject 16 18 11:07, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
I was actually already thinking of putting the coded on-wiki family trees to their respective pages and put them in collapsibles, like on Wikipedia. They would be more oversee-able and less white, and neater, I think. They can also be easily updated once they need to be changed. -- Master Sima Yi 11:44, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
Hold a vote for the family tree thing, I vote we do it; it would clear up quite a few confusions that a lot of people have, and it would result in less people going "But I thought Ezio and Altair were related?"
I had actually been working on a family tree myself (for personal use) for about two weeks, but I only got around to finishing it yesterday. What do you think?
Full Genealogy chart It's a bit disorganized but I wanted to include everything. Also, provided that we go with the on wiki family tree thing, I'd suggest we highlight all the uncertainties so that people don't speculate.
I don't know if a vote would be really necessary if we put it in a collapsible like the game templates at the bottom (where you click on [Show] and [Hide]). It would only be for the main characters anyways; and we add additional information. In regards to your own family tree, it looks good aside from a few things that we don't know about like Ilario being Domenico's son, Iskender being Desmond's ancestor and Ezio being an ancestor of William and Altaïr being an ancestor of Desmond's mother. -- Master Sima Yi 12:42, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
Go for it, a lot of people would appreciate the clarity a family tree provides. I mentioned the part about Iskender at the bottom, how he could be an ancestor and also about how he couldn't be an ancestor (it is marked as an uncertainty in the actual tree). As for the Ezio/William, Altair/Desmond's mom part, I thought it was mentioned in an interview with Darby McDevitt or something, anyways, it can be edited. Finally, as much as I hate making assumptions, since there in the canon Desmond genealogy chart, Domenico's son has a name (which isn't that clear) and Ilario is the only other named Auditore we know, who falls under the same time period, I'm assuming it's Ilario. I wonder if there's some way to enhance the low res image from the Abstergo file and confirm this... Gabriel Auditore 12:56, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
I vote for it's use on the character's personal wikis. And it will probably stop some people from saying "I thought Ezio and Altair were related". So... Is this a yes with the collapsible family trees, then? Subject 16 18 02:44, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
something all of yall forgot. adam is directly connected to ezio, altair, connor, and aquilus (assuming they all have eagle vision) and illario auditore actually has been confirmed. (Arabian411269 21:17, April 28, 2012 (UTC))
No, because Clay said in his database entry that he could not view as much of Ezio's memories as Desmond did, so he is not a descendant of Sofia. Ilario Auditore has not been confirmed at all. If you are trying to claim facts, make sure you are right... I've just been on a podcast with Jeffrey Yohalem, lead writer of Brotherhood, the glyph puzzles and The Lost Archive and he told me that Clay isn't related to Ezio at all after me and Subject 16* asked him about it afterwards, so I'm gonna have to change mine. -- Master Sima Yi 21:32, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
very begining of assassin's creed 2. lucy tells desmond to get back in the animus; the animus finds a link between subject 16 and 17 at ezio. clay has to be a decendent of ezio, the game clearly says it. if clay cant see as much as desmond that means his ancestor was an older sibling than desmond's. clay also left messages in the animus in renaissance florence and rome; ezio's lifetime. the glyphs can't be randomly generated into whatever world the next subject found themself in. common sense, man. and using hearsay as a source isn't 100% reliable (with my repects to Yohalem).
about Illario, it was in the wikia somewhere and I heard it in one of the games. or project legacy or Mario Auditore said it.
No, the game doesn't say "Subject 16 is Ezio's descendant," it says there is a "match." This doesn't have to mean a genetical match. Jeffrey admitted that was a bit confusing, but it doesn't mean a genetical relationship. As pointed out in The Lost Archive, Clay had an Italian ancestor from whom Abstergo found out about the existence of Ezio Auditore. If Clay was Ezio's descendant, there would have been no need for them to find Desmond in the first place. The Glyph puzzles are also part of the Animus interface, not the memories of Ezio. Clay couldn't have overridden Ezio's memories in Desmond's DNA to be able to view those glyphs, it was done from inside the Animus. And use, if one of the actual lead writers tells me something while the contrary is never explicitly stated, why will I not go by what he says?
And Ilario Auditore's article says nothing about any relationship to Domenico, Giovanni, Mario or Ezio nor is it said anywhere in any media. He is only mentioned in the Florence database entry in AC2 where it's said that he was a close friend and banker to Cosimo de' Medici. -- Master Sima Yi 21:59, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
Wow... I am so confused right now. Can someone put this in simple english? Please? Subject 16 18 02:15, April 29, 2012 (UTC)
Woah, that's a lot to take in! So Darby McDevitt saying Ezio could have had "Other Kids" before meeting Sofia wasn't a clue toward's Clay... You know, next time there's a meeting with a lead writer or something, we should ask them to show us a full genealogy chart or something so that we can avoid stuff like "Clay's not related to Ezio???" and "Altair and Ezio aren't related???" in the future. Or perhaps they should include one in the Encyclopedia: Second Edition. Honestly I did not like all the inaccuracies between the games and the Encyclopedia at all. It's why I prefer this Wiki to the Encyclopedia. Gabriel Auditore 10:33, April 29, 2012 (UTC)
Cause the wiki's gonna get it right and attempt to extinguish the rumours. Subject 16 18 01:15, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
nowhere in the whole page does it confirm the existance of other hybrids. when it says hybrids the interjected dashed phrase specifies adam and eve furthur eluding to the fact that they are the ONLY hybrids of thier generation. they tried to splice thei dna with that of humans. splicing has a less than 1% success rate which is even less when dealing with complicated species such as humans and only god knows what OWCB had in their DNA. and if there were other hybrids why didn't they cooperate in starting the rebelion?
about clay not being a descendent of ezio. the odds of desmond and clay having a genetic match at ezio without both being a descendent are more than astronomical. your not just saying that thier fingerprints match, you are saying that they have match far enough along their geneology that they have a similar ancestor. thats insane! and one of the basic principles of how the animus works is that it reads genetic memories. u have to be a decendant of whoever your are seeing the memories of. the possibility of ezio having an illigitimate child is pretty high. and who says clay couldn't have overridden ezio's memories? he practically poineered the science of psionics by transfering his living fully functional consciousness into a machine! he probably thought he could transfer himself back into a living body from what he said to Desmond in revelations. if u can transfer your escence through biotic and non biotic mediums alike i think its pretty simple to override a memory sequence while you are living in the machine.
not to sound hypocritical, the stuff that people say in interviews can be recalled in favor of further twisting the plot of the story. Gabe Graziani's claim that the young man in th end of the short film Embers had no significants to the series was retracted. just an example. i'm sure there are other examples. don't blindly follow what people say unless its 100% comfirmed (released media and games). Don't eliminate possibilities unless they have been completely denied. (Arabian411269 14:49, April 30, 2012 (UTC))
So what you're saying, Sima, is that the makers are a bunch of big liars that will throw us off just to get a laugh out of it? If so, that's not groovy, dude. Not one bit. Subject 16 18 21:20, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
No, what I'm saying is that the writers don't all see eye-to-eye on this subject. -- Master Sima Yi 20:57, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
Forgive me for my n00bishness, but shouldn't they have meetings to get their facts right to prevent things like this? And do they? Cause... Subject 16 18 21:20, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
They do, but as I said, Jeffrey is a little stubborn. :) -- Master Sima Yi 21:26, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
I guess he's not open to compromise then... How about just ignoring Jeffrey until he comes up with something everyone agrees with or until one of the other creators comes and verifies what Jeffrey says? Subject 16 18 21:32, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
Well, that was an interesting stir in our little community. So Darby's "Ezio had an illegitimate child that lead to Clay" part is back to being considered canon I guess. The whole "other Italian ancestor" thing was confusing me, mainly because I vaguely remembered the database entries of Clay and Ezio. I'm guessing Clay had another Italian ancestor and Abstergo was looking for the Vault by reliving his/her memories, when they came across Ezio's name during a session, followed by doing some research and discovering that Clay was related to Ezio, which lead to them forcing him to relive Ezio's memories. That explanation seems to avoid contradictions in canon... Gabriel Auditore 03:39, May 1, 2012 (UTC)
Lets keep in mind that Ezio was a total man whore. He could've had loads of other kids he doesn't know about... That whore... Subject 16 18 04:02, May 1, 2012 (UTC)
No other description would have done Ezio more justice. He is a Man Whore. (Arabian411269 06:46, May 1, 2012 (UTC))
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