Talk:Sun
Appearances[edit source]
"The sun is not visible in all of these sources-" Are you honestly saying that the Sun is not there if the glowing ball of it is not seen? That its rays don't matter? That first there's the demand for a full list, but a full list won't do...because "the sun is not visible in all of these sources."
Not being snarky or somesuch, just... I don't know, flabbergasted? The thing around which literally pretty much all the life on earth as we know it circles around of should not be considered 'present' because... we need to be told it's there? What next? We can't say water's wet unless a canon source states that?
(With pieces of gear, heck, even the Moon I get this. Not with the Sun. Have to be honest and say I'm really not following your logic here, Sol.) Sadelyrate (siniath) 21:45, May 15, 2019 (UTC)
- Appearance means whether something visually manifests or not, not whether they are present or exist. If a comic or game is set in daytime, but the sun is not in sight, then yes of course the sun is present, but only the effects of it or its rays are seen. Sol Pacificus(Cyfiero) 21:58, May 15, 2019 (UTC)
- Okay finally home and not having to type on mobile. Just to clarify appearance and appear by definition correlates with sight; they are not defined by mere presence. When something appears, it comes into view. In the context of media appearances, this is the definition that is used. It's a little confusing because by extension, we often can say that something appears just because it has shown up, but in matters of screenplay, the technical criteria of being in view of the audience is used. For example, if an individual is present at the end of a comic but only because they said something "off-screen", that individual wouldn't normally have been listed as making an appearance, but for our readers' convenience, we clarify that they "appeared" indirectly through some medium, e.g. voice heard off-screen or in other cases, as a statue of illustration not the actual subject. This is also the reason for the inclusion of mentions, where the subject did not actually make an appearance, but we clarify that they were mentioned so that our readers would know how we acquired information about them anyways. In the same vein, if there is a main character who is never actually seen but who we always hear through an audio recording or over the radio, that individual doesn't actually appear even though they are present. We list their (indirect) "appearance" as only through audio.
- Honestly, we imported this section from older and more established wikis like Wookieepedia, the Harry Potter wiki, The Elder Scrolls wiki, etc. so we follow by their precedent and rules for interwiki consistency. I wasn't the one who made these conventions up. Sol Pacificus(Cyfiero) 22:23, May 15, 2019 (UTC)
- So in Altaïr's Chronicles he's jumping around in a landscape lit up by a giant torch or maybe the glowing eye of a dragon, for all we know. Got it. As for interwiki consistency... how does the article on humanity fit in, with its blanket statement? Sadelyrate (siniath) 05:37, May 16, 2019 (UTC)
- I think you've entirely missed the point which was laid out very clearly. It is certain that in Altaïr's Chronicles that the sun is present and is the source of light in the landscape. That it is present does not mean it appears because you misunderstand the definition of appear. It is as though you have not read my reply in the slightest. Your sarcasm has been noted and is not appreciated. Sol Pacificus(Cyfiero) 12:01, May 16, 2019 (UTC)
- So in Altaïr's Chronicles he's jumping around in a landscape lit up by a giant torch or maybe the glowing eye of a dragon, for all we know. Got it. As for interwiki consistency... how does the article on humanity fit in, with its blanket statement? Sadelyrate (siniath) 05:37, May 16, 2019 (UTC)
- I fail to understand how something as ubiquitous as the Sun cannot appear. A person, a piece of gear... all these may 'appear'. But Sun is not a character, or a piece of gear. We're not even talking about a specific symbol, or a deity or somesuch, but the Sun. Frankly, I'm surprised this even is something to argue about. Sadelyrate (siniath) 14:11, May 16, 2019 (UTC)
- I never argued or disagreed with you that the Sun isn't there in Altaïr's Chronicles or any other game. Appear in this context means to be in view on screen not to be present. You are not addressing my replies at all (or not even reading them properly). Sol Pacificus(Cyfiero) 20:48, May 16, 2019 (UTC)
- You keep extrapolating that if we say something hasn't appeared we're saying that it's not there or that we can't assume that it's there. I keep telling you that's not what it means. You're not even replying to the points I'm making. You don't even understand my position on this. Instead, you keep firing back at a position I didn't even make. Sol Pacificus(Cyfiero) 21:00, May 16, 2019 (UTC)
- I fail to understand how something as ubiquitous as the Sun cannot appear. A person, a piece of gear... all these may 'appear'. But Sun is not a character, or a piece of gear. We're not even talking about a specific symbol, or a deity or somesuch, but the Sun. Frankly, I'm surprised this even is something to argue about. Sadelyrate (siniath) 14:11, May 16, 2019 (UTC)
As an example, Coruscant Prime is the sun of the planet Coruscant. If you check their articles, not every case of Coruscant's appearance in media where it is daytime is listed as an appearance of Coruscant Prime. This isn't to say that Coruscant Prime isn't there when it is daytime on Coruscant; it is. It just means that in some cases it is never on-screen. That is all. There is no extended meaning about this. No assumption that it isn't there when it is not on-screen is intended. Sol Pacificus(Cyfiero) 21:23, May 16, 2019 (UTC)