Board Thread:Wiki discussion/@comment-1828842-20200521221354/@comment-18014300-20200522181142

Assassin leader & Templar leader

Assassin leader and Templar leader should just be deleted. There is too much overlap with "Mentor" and "Grand Master of the Templar Order" respectively. There were two main arguments for these two pages, paraphrased below:

1. 'We need a page encompassing both official Grand Masters and people who had their position but not the official rank, the main example being Basilisk.'

As ACSenior pointed out, we don't need a separate page just for an acting position. In the real-world, "acting presidents", interim leaders, or rulers who died before their coronation or inauguration are always just included with the list of presidents, kings, etc. Having a page which repeats the exact same information save for adding a few extra individuals who were interim leaders is just a redundancy and poor organization

2. 'Not all branch leaders are Mentors or Grand Masters; this page was created for those branch leaders who did not hold that rank, the main example being Yusuf Tazim.'

This was the original rationale for these pages as reported by Sima Yi. They date to a time when the ranks of Mentor and Grand Master were not clearly defined as being branch leaders. Unfortunately, The Essential Guide has since defined these ranks to correspond 1:1 to the position of branch leaders. There is controversy about whether or not this is a retcon and whether or not this contradicts the lore that is presented in Revelations. Because of this confusion, Sima had suggested to me before that we could instead rename the pages to "Assassin branch leader" and "Templar branch leader" for clarity.

However, I should point out that it does not seem like everyone who has added individuals to these pages treat it as referring to branch leaders specifically. We have William Miles and Gavin Banks on there. While they are Assassin leaders in that they are Assassins who lead, they are not heads of specific regional branches. We have also added the heads of the various branches of the Order of the Ancients in Persia from Legacy of the Lost Blade, but it is not clear if we should relate those to the same exact position as "Templar regional branch/Rite leader".

In other words, the two pages are being used as general pools for any Assassin or Templar who lead or is in a leadership position. This signals two things. First that "Assassin leader" and "Templar leader" are purely descriptive terms whether we like it or not. They are not the names of positions; they are general nouns formed by "leader" and a descriptor. And second, we lack clarity on what position they really define if we were to treat them as actual positions.

In any case, the overriding issue is that we can be influencing canonical lore or confusing our readers (certainly this has and still remains confusing to me) by presenting these as real ranks. We definitely have seen editors who were influenced by the existence of these pages into treating them as real ranks even when they give tacit acknowledgement about the terms being conjectural or descriptive (i.e. not actual names) or that the concept is our own original creation out of sheer convenience.

I do not think that "Assassin leader" and "Templar leader" should remain at all, and if they remain, they must be renamed, and the content they cover clarified. The only real reason for them to exist is to serve as a general gallery for all Assassins and Templars in leadership positions regardless of rank across all Assassin's Creed media for the convenience of fans. Currently, however, there is extreme redundancy between these pages and "Mentors" and "Grand Master".