User talk:Sol Pacificus

Reversion on George W Bush

Just wondering why my expansive edits on Bush's page got reverted? I gave some early life while keeping it to a minimum but everything i added was AC-sourced. VilkaIsBack (talk) 07:35, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

You added too much information drawn from external sources. Our practice is to permit that when it comes to articles directly dealing with historical events, when necessary to provide basic information about that subject, and when necessary to plug in gaps in the writing that appear when using only Assassin's Creed sources. Paragraphs about George Bush's early life and political career do not qualify for any of those criteria, and you were sourcing them to Wikipedia, not an Assassin's Creed source. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 07:55, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

His early life can be deleted then. but my external sources were giving exposition on the images. the photo of him on the USS Abraham Lincoln i used external sources to explain the story behind it, same with his picture on the magazine asking if was gonna run as governor again, AC sourced (The Fall 1) and external source to give exposition. Plus I also added the stuff in 2012 about the Rifts, AC sourced. VilkaIsBack (talk) 08:00, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Let me take another closer look at it tomorrow. Happy New Years! Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 08:06, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Hey Vilka, I have double-checked your edit, and you were right. Some of your additions are pertinent to Assassin's Creed. My bad for not looking over it more clearly the first time. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 02:19, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Jing Ke

Hello Sol,
I've noticed you seem to have your own big project page/sandbox, where you use Sima Qian's Record to elaborate on Jing Ke's life and legacy. Looking at Jing Ke's page, though, it is effectively a stub, as he is only mentioned in passing in Dynasty. Isn't your extensive biography on him—which I will say is great work on your part—beyond the scope of the "no original research" clause? I realize I may sound like I am trying to "gotcha!" you, but I am simply confused why so much information is coming outside his Wikipedia page. I believe you had said WP is to be used in passing for minor supplementary refs, right? – Darman (talk) 22:45, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

This has already been discussed in multiple places in the past on both the wiki and on our Discord server. Based on feedback and consultations with one another, we decided to make an exception for the Five Great Assassins based on the following justifications:

1. The legends of the Assassins have been directly referenced in Sima Qian's Records of the Grand Historian in Assassin's Creed: Dynasty, so we can safely assume that the work in the Assassin's Creed universe is the same. As long as we are being clear that we are merely sharing the fuller accounts of these figures according to Sima Qian, we are not engaging in fan fiction.
2. Information on the Five Assassins are rather difficult to find in English apart from Jing Ke. English Wikipedia does not have articles on all five, and while you might be able to find biographies of a few of the others elsewhere, they are almost always informal and imprecise translations or summaries by other non-profit groups. (For example, the top search result for Nie Zheng on Google, which an editor did briefly use to supply info on him on our wiki, mixes details from his story and that of Yu Rang using details from another source apart from Sima Qian.) Other times, you might find an account of Yu Rang or Nie Zheng buried in books about ninja or samurai or The Art of War as supplementary information, but in general, there is no place as far as I could find that spells out all five Assassins' stories together for an English audience and as direct translations of all five tales as written in Records of the Grand Historian.
3. The information would be helpful to Assassin's Creed fans. An argument was made to me that these articles would be a good service for English fans of Assassin's Creed to better understand the background of these characters alluded to in Dynasty. Since it would be challenging if not impossible for them to find complete information on all five figures anywhere, it really doesn't hurt for us to just give it to them.

I need to emphasize that this was a major exception decided upon by consensus by our community using a looser interpretation of "original research" by basing on the fact that the stories as told in Sima Qian's work were cited in an Assassin's Creed source. Note that I have therefore been very strict to permit only Records of the Grand Historian and Assassin's Creed as sources for the biographies of these individuals. I never use re-tellings by later authors. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 05:54, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

It makes sense now that you explain it, since not all figures in Chinese history have WP pages nor are they always so detailed, so your efforts will definitely be a benefit here. I do recall the internal talks about using external sources, but I either missed the parts on the Five Assassins or else it happened in Discord. Keep up the work, your draft so far is a captivating read, and I look forward to seeing it and its companion biography expansions when they're it's complete! (My mistake, this is the final Assassin to profile, the others are already done) Thanks for letting me pick your brain. – Darman (talk) 13:55, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

To be honest, since I apologized to Vilka for my sternness regarding no original research (and btw it was Vilka who originally requested that the Five Great Assassins' bios be expanded like this :P), I have been considering that we should have a formal community-wide discussion to establish the official parameters regarding original research and the use of external sources for our wiki. Although we have been developing such standards organically by conventional practice, and I laid out such parameters recently to Vilka, we haven't formally codified them, and it may only be fair to permit editors to argue for either further loosening of the parameters or greater restrictions as they believe is proper. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 23:43, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I'm from Fandom and have sent you a Discord DM

Same handle as the one I have here :) Itsjieyang (talk) 15:56, 29 February 2024 (UTC)