Talk:Persian Brotherhood of Assassins

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Iltani founder?

Per dialogue in Mirage should we put Iltani as the founder in the infobox? I also thought about suggesting a merge with the Babylonian Brotherhood but it is possible that Iltani was established her own branch separate from them rather than that group directly transitioning into this one. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 06:11, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

I remember encountering that mention in Mirage somewhere but don't remember exactly where. Can you please quote it and tell us exactly where it is found? And if I remember correctly, we still haven't finished figuring out whether these articles on Assassin sub-"brotherhoods" should be about the guilds or any branch of the Assassins that operated in the region. I believe we may have settled on the latter since the names are also used for cells, but we need to double-check on the past discussions. I don't see any basis for a merge with the Babylonian Brotherhood. Both the names Persian Brotherhood and Babylonian Brotherhood originated in The Essential Guide (1st ed.) where they are mentioned separately. In fact, it's not even clear if we should be treating this as the same as the branch based in Alamut in Mirage (although I would hope that this could be verified). A lot of editors seem to have a working assumption that branches of the Assassins and Templars would be co-extensive with country borders, which not only is not necessarily the case but also isn't very realistic. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 07:57, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

I believe it to be dialogue (possibly ambient or talking to random NPCs) in either A New Beginning or Taking Flight but transcriptions are not yet complete and the line is currently missing. I just put this on this talk page since we don't have a Hidden Ones of Alamut or whatever and didn't want to forget this later. You bring up a good point about the Persian and Babylonian Brotherhoods both being featured in the Guide as separate. I agree that rites and guild territorial coverage should, given actually good worldbuilding, be divorced from state borders (sidenote: this is a pet peeve of mine regarding the Harry Potter universe, if the Wizarding World withdrew from mundane society by the late 1600s why do the Ministries of Magic map to current polities for the most part). Lacrossedeamon (talk) 08:40, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

The was spoken by Tabid to Basim in Taking Flight. I have included the said quote on Iltani's page. Lady Kyashira (talk) 15:27, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Supposing that we do treat the Alamut branch as being founded by Iltani, do you think it'd be too weird to merge it with Babylonian Brotherhood but not the two with Persian Brotherhood? And what about the Levantine Brotherhood? Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 14:39, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Paraphrasing from Discord and to clear up my position. I am actually against merging the branches at this time because it is unclear if Iltani being a founder of the branch in Mirage (if Tabid is meaning the branch specifically rather than the Hidden Ones in general) means she was the founder of her original branch. She could be like the Polo brothers who started out at Masyaf but then established branches elsewhere. As for the Levantine issue that is complicated due to both how earlier entries depict their relationship and the fact that the establishment of the branch at Alamut has been retconned. We have a note from Rayhan alluding to the future establishment of the Levantine branch but since there is a couple intervening centuries it's basically useless. Any attempt to reconcile the difference would veer too much into headcanon/speculation. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 02:28, 11 November 2023 (UTC)