Talk:Isu

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Does anyone have a reference or a source for this because I didn't hear aything about them in the game?

...Have you even finished the game? it's right there at the end!--CombustionMan 00:11, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Indeed - I don't see how he could have asked that if he hasn't completed AC2. --Yargling 12:43, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

They are first mentined by Warren Vidic in AC1, when Desmond interrogates him for answers on how their technology, like the Animus, was developed, he mentions it was scavenged from 'Those who Came Before'. This is then developed in AC2, right at the end of the game. Play to the end, discover all Glyphs and The Truth videos, and it should be clear.--Peace-and-War

Does anyone have a reference or source on 16 having eagle vision, i dont remember that. O.o Spoonodeath 19:19, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

ACII, 16 says "Why do we have these gifts? It's in our blood!" or something similar. Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 18:33, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Someone please get rid of that deplorable picture of Mars/Ares. It is ruining the friggin page.Beirut 01:52, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

What picture are you talking about? Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 11:37, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Already removed it yesterday. It was 2 pictures of greek statues. -- D. Cello 02:28, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

'Humanity'?

There's a line in there that says something along the lines of 'it was 1499 when humanity would first 'meet' Those Who Came Before' something like that anyway.

It's explicitly stated that humans and Those Who Came Before lived together, even that the latter created the former, so how can it be that Ezio met them before those ancient humans?

It isn't. That piece of info is wrong. -- D. Cello 20:43, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

To quote the article "The first known instance of a human becoming aware of their existence following their disappearance was that of Altaïr Ibn-La'Ahad, who made mention of them in his Codex. However, it would not be until the year 1499 that humanity would first "meet" Those Who Came Before; Ezio Auditore da Firenze, an Assassin, encountered a hologram of a being calling herself Minerva in The Vault. While Ezio likely told his fellow Assassins of Minerva, it is possible they still did not understand her true nature; Ezio showed great difficulty in understanding Minerva's explanation of her existence."

As you can see, the word 'meet' is encircled to emphasis that this is a meeting between post-First Civilisation humans and this other race. I feel it is fitting, as in-game the Codex clearly states that humanity had at one stage lost all knowledge of the First Civilisation, and it was only through the efforts of the Assassins and Templars, who used the PoEs', that any knowledge was gained. As such, I feel the wording 'humanity' is more than fitting for the article, especially since "non-primitive humans" is POV… I'm sure they weren't "primitive" at the time; by all accounts, the technology they had available to them far surpassed what was available to the Abstergo in 2012, making that choice in words technically incorrect. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 13:54, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

It isn't clear that the meaning is 'the first human after the loss of all knowledge of the First Civilisation'. I've included the word 'again' hopefully this clears up the confusion Mercenari 15:05, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

they said they were more advanced in time, they had the power to travel through time, they knew of things to come, i think that they are the future of humanity that fled back in time for some reson71.60.215.38 03:27, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Except they said "We simply came...before."

Are they still alive?

Just throwing this out there, feel free to criticise me, but is it possible that "those who came before" are still around and simply took a similar path to some of the beings in 2001: A Space Odessey? I think subject 16 mentions something about them being in the sun if I am not mistaken, which has definate parallels with 2001. This would also explain the line: "When we were still flesh" as well as their ability to predict the future as the would be in a timeless form.

It could even be possible that Minverva was not a hologram at all, perhaps the temple allowed her to communicate with humans? 94.11.67.236 21:00, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

A better name

Anyone agree with me that this article should be moved to The First Civilization? - Duelisttri 14:58, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

No, if you talk to members I'm sure they are more familiar with 'Those who came before', rather than 'the first civilization'. - Altaïr 17:10, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Those who came before is just a precarious name, when we don't know what to call them so we stick with what Vidic called them - Duelisttri 15:36, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah so we'll stick to 'Those who came before'? So I don't understand what your point is with this 'First Civilization' if you agree that we should stick with 'Those who came before'. -- Altaïr 17:45, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

My point is now that we have know them clear enough, we should call them with a more suitable name - Duelisttri 15:57, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

No, you stick to a name people are familiar with. You might know much about them, but other people might not, so if they want to research it, you use a title that they do know. - Altaïr 18:42, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Whilst I personally prefer the title of 'First Civilisation', I do feel the article should remain under the current title. As Altaïr has mentioned, people searching for information on this subject would most likely look up 'Those Who Came Before'. It is enough that we have the 'First Civilisation' mentioned in the lead sentence, and it allows us to prevent excess repetition within the article. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 01:50, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

I think it should be changed to 'The First Civilization', anyone looking to learn about them will likely be searching for either Minerva, Juno, or Piece of Eden. Those who came before just sounds too vague IMO. If you change the name of the article and link it with characters like Minerva and Juno then i think people are smart enough to figure it out. --Jedted 21:29, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

First Templars

I just had an epiphany. We say that Cain is the first templar as his mark is that of the knights. But is it not also possible that Those Who Came Before were the first templars and the most successful as they enslaved all the humans at the time, save for adam & eve. Therefore the first assassins (adam & eve) were created by their enemies themselves, the templars, not the other way around as was previously thought.

- You are stating a theory and then immediately asserting it as truth. Though Those Who Cam Before did indeed enslave the human race, they are not Templars. Being a Templar is not a concept that you can just stumble into by seeking dominion over men using artifacts. The Templars are a definite organization, begun by Cain, as the glyphs indicate.

The First Civilization were masters. But it was Cain that begun the organization we call Templars. Vaxis 06:12, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

When I said therefore I was speaking in terms of the theory. I know that there is no conclusive evidence so it is not a fact. Now I speak in regards to both this post and the one on the sword of Eden page. they are both theories that I know have faults but that is why I love ac. there are all these connections within the games and I like finding those. They also present some interesting philosophical arguments. But for your comment on the sword, there are differences between the sword in ac and the one in ac2. also, we can see some apprentices with the sword as well. The Eagle1701 04:18, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

An innocent question: Eve is to be resurrected so she can have a Those Who Came Before child with Desmond? -SPOILER- I thought Minerva murdered Lucy so she can be brought back. I'm confused.

"The First Civilization" vs "Those Who Came Before"

I don't see why the name of this article can't be change to something more convenient. TWCB is too long winded and is more of a description than a title. During the credits for AC2 you hear Shaun refer to them as "The First Civilization" so it shouldn't create too much confusion for people visiting the site for the first time. Also, as i said in the other topic, most people seeking to learn about "Minerva's People" will search for either "Minerva", "Juno", or "Piece of Eden" rather than typing in "Those Who Came Before". I realize i'm probebly in the minority hear but i still stand by my vote to change the name of the article. Jedted 20:04, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

It may be what Shaun calls it, but it's not what we call it. Campbell430 20:37, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

You have a point Jedted, Shaun does call them the "First Civilisation" and indeed, I would prefer to have the article under that name, but the simple fact of the matter is that 95% of people who play the games and/or visit the official forums know them by the name of "Those Who Came Before" (or The Ones Who Came Before for some strange reason), so it makes more sense to have the article under the current title until a more official name is brought to light. Besides, "First Civilisation" is mentioned in the lead sentence, as well as being a redirect. --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 23:17, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

The reason the majority refer to them that way is because they're not imaginative enough to come up with a better name. If Ubisoft hasn't invented a canonical name for them then i think falls to us to give them one, any better than TWCB atleast. Jedted 00:09, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

:No, it doesn't fall to us to create anything. That would be fan-made, and as such is not allowed on our articles; we stick with what names are given in canon. Both TWCB and First Civilisation are mentioned in the article, that is good enough. If you want to hold a vote on which name the article should be under, you're more than welcome to, but I would suggest you not call your fellow fans "unimaginative". --Jasca Ducato _{Council Chamber} ^{Assassination record} 00:19, January 10, 2011 (UTC)