Talk:Hades' Bident

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Hades's vs Hades'

I know it’s awkward for a lot of people and goes against what most have been taught but the game uses Hades's. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 12:47, November 11, 2018 (UTC)

Save for memory names, the wiki chooses to omit the other s. Sadelyrate (siniath) 13:39, November 11, 2018 (UTC)

That seems weird and is not what the MoS states. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 13:53, November 11, 2018 (UTC)

Jasca and Cyfiero did discussed this on Discord, so you can check with them. XOdeyssusx (talk) 13:58, November 11, 2018 (UTC)

All I can tell you is what Jasca Ducato told me, when I asked them about it: "Crimson, Sol, Sima and I discussed this previously and agreed that dropping the possessive S is the best route forward (and is consistent with the wiki's practice to date) since it's only a grammatical change, and doesn't change the meaning of the subject name itself. The only exception to this is genetic memories, where we'll keep the possessive S if there is one present." Sadelyrate (siniath) 14:05, November 11, 2018 (UTC)

Very well. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 14:09, November 11, 2018 (UTC)

The discussion as Jasca reported is not exactly as I remember it though I would have to double-check the logs. As I recall, we did all agree that dropping the possessive ⟨s⟩ in the case of names such as Socrates, Alexios, Hades, etc. (which end in sibilants that are either /z/ or approach /z/) is proper. What was in disagreement was whether or not this should also be the case with certain singular nouns and names, such as boss, where the possessive ⟨s⟩ needs to be articulated in its possessive form to be understood as being inflected for possession. However, we did not address this contention and left it ambiguous, something that was possible because the cases we looked at at the time all involved names where the possessive ⟨s⟩ should be dropped either way. At the same time, we also established the convention that definitely still holds at the moment which is that grammatical changes to names are fine even if they deviate with Ubisoft's usage.

Actually, we had already previously established in the manual of style that omission of the possessive ⟨s⟩ in singular nouns ending in an ⟨s⟩ is conditional. Changes to policy should not be arbitrarily made by consensus among a few users in an ad hoc session on a supplementary chat service. An exception can be made when there is need of an expedient solution to a matter that has not yet been settled (e.g. the convention on grammatical corrections to names).

To be open and honest, the aforementioned ambiguity and the convention on allowing grammatical changes to names was such that it allowed Jasca to be convinced that a definitive consensus had been reached that the possessive ⟨s⟩ should always be dropped in every case, as he himself held the conviction that this is an indisputable grammar rule. In fact, it is not because various manuals of style around the world maintain the inclusion of the possessive ⟨s⟩ in singular nouns ending in an ⟨s⟩. On my end, the ambiguity allowed me to sidestep yet another argument regarding formulating policy changes to the manual of style without a wider, formal discussion with the community on the wiki itself.

I know this seems convoluted, but this is how I remember it. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 13:38, October 26, 2019 (UTC)