Talk:Great Purge (1757-1763)

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Rogue

So, are we to assume that this is the culmination (or final push, as it were) of what Shay started in Rogue? First Shay picks off the key Assassin figures, and then Haytham leads an all-out assault on the Homestead? --Crimson Knight _Intercom 21:24, December 3, 2014 (UTC)

Not that I've played Rogue yet (not allowed to buy it; something about a Christmas present), but that was the impression I got right from the promotional get-go. Yes, Shay's action started (or perhaps could be considered a part of) this Purge. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 19:36, December 4, 2014 (UTC)

We should strike the year from the article's title, add the events of Rogue and encompass the decline of the Colonial Assassins shown in it into this. --Kainzorus Prime ⚜ ^{Walkie-talkie} 03:00, December 5, 2014 (UTC)

Move

This article should be renamed. "Colonial Assassin" isn't really the name of the organization. Staying with this format, it should be the plural "Colonial Assassins", and actually in that case I think "Purge of the Colonial Assassins" sounds less awkward. Note that the official name of the branch is the "Colonial Brotherhood" also which is probably preferable for the title so "Colonial Brotherhood purge" or "Purge of the Colonial Brotherhood"? Latter sounds more formal but might be too wordy. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 02:10, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

The article title is fine. Since "Colonial Assassin" is a collective noun in this case, an 's' is not required at the end. Using the word "Brotherhood" would also be incorrect, since it's not technically a purge of brotherhoods, its a purge of this partiuclar brotherhood's members, and they are called Assassins. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 10:50, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly disagree. "Colonial Assassin" is not a collective noun at all; if it were, it would be pluralized. The singular "Colonial Assassin" can only refer to a single Assassin of this branch, hence why the name is grammatically incorrect because you cannot enact a purge against a single individual.

I do not understand your second reasoning either, or what you even mean. If your intent is for the name to refer to be a collective noun, then the purpose is the same: to refer to this group of Assassins, and if you argue that only certain members of the branch were being "purged", then I would argue that it's not a purge at all if they don't form a cohesive group that you can say was being targeted, or else would you rename it "Colonial Assassins' leadership purge"? But of course the main problem with that is that every Assassin of the branch were targeted with only Achilles being spared. Every last gang leader and every Assassin member were killed aside from him.

If on the other hand—and I'm just thinking ahead—you distinguish "purge of particular members" vs. "purge of the brotherhood" itself based on intent, i.e. Shay hadn't intended to purge the brotherhood, just to purge specific members, then I would argue that if you define purge by intent, Shay doesn't seem to have planned ahead of time to assassinate each and every last Assassin. The story presents it as though he incidentally felt the need to kill one Assassin after another due to new developments, and so if you define purge by intent rather than result, it wouldn't be a purge at all.

And just thinking of another possibility since your meaning is a bit unclear, if somehow your meaning is that it's not multiple brotherhoods being eliminated but multiple members of a particular brotherhood being eliminated, then that is still incorrect. What "Colonial Brotherhood purge" actually would mean is that the members of this particular branch, the Colonial Brotherhood, were eliminated, not "multiple brotherhoods". I don't see if this is what you meant, how you can think "Brotherhood" would refer to a "purge of brotherhoods" or the elimination of multiple brotherhoods, when "Brotherhood" here is singular, and it is clearly distinguished by "Colonial". It can't possibly refer to other brotherhoods, such as the Ottoman Brotherhood or Chinese Brotherhood. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 11:54, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

If my response is a little confusing because I had trouble understanding what you meant at first and so responded based on three different interpretations, just focus on the first and last paragraphs because I think the last interpretation is what you meant by your second point. Also, just so we're on the same page, the official name of the guild founded by Achilles is the "Colonial Brotherhood". "Colonial Brotherhood" is the proper name of this specific branch, which is classified as an Assassin guild (not "brotherhood"). Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 12:15, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

"I wholeheartedly disagree. "Colonial Assassin" is not a collective noun at all; if it were, it would be pluralized." The point is that they wouldn't be pluralised; if you're using the name of the purged party in the name of the event itself then pluralising it is essentially redundant (and also not keeping with naming convention). Take a look at these real world examples:

• Ukranian Genocide, not "Ukranians Genocide"
• Native American Genocide, not "Native Americans Genocide"
• Assyrian Genocide, no "Assyrians"
• 1984 Sikh Massacre, not "Sikhs"
• 1804 Haiti massacre, not "Haitians"
• 1932 Salvadoran peasant massacre, not "peasants"

The same logic applies - with regards to pluralising the word - when using the name "brotherhood", though on re-reading your post I can see I misread your inital point. You could use either "Colonial Assassin purge", or "Colonial Brotherhood purge", but not "Colonial Assassins." Likewise, you could use "Purge of the Colonial Assassins/Brotherhood," but that's quite wordy and not in keeping with convention. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 13:38, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

That makes a bit more sense. I think then my disagreement stems from the fact that sources treat the plural format "Colonial Assassins" (and also Egyptian Assassins, Chinese Assassins, etc.) as appropriate shorthand names for "Colonial Brotherhood" (Egyptian Brotherhood, Chinese Brotherhood, etc.), however the singular form such as "Colonial Assassin" is never used as an appropriate alternative name, though your examples do have some logic about it. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 14:15, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

If you agree that there is no issue with "Colonial Brotherhood purge" then I propose we move it to that then since I still think "Colonial Assassin purge" can be a little be contentious, and we might as well use the official name of the organization right? Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 16:32, July 6, 2017 (UTC)