Talk:Marcel Jeannin: Difference between revisions
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==Grammar review== | ==Grammar review== | ||
Please pardon the length. I hate to belabor what should be a simple grammatical point, but I don't know how else to justify my revisions (1st [http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Marcel_Jeannin?diff=349948&oldid=349929 here] and 2nd [http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Marcel_Jeannin?diff=350021&oldid=349951 here]) except by being thorough. | Please pardon the length. I hate to belabor what should be a simple grammatical point, but I don't know how else to justify my revisions (1st [http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Marcel_Jeannin?diff=349948&oldid=349929 here] and 2nd [http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Marcel_Jeannin?diff=350021&oldid=349951 here]) except by being thorough. | ||
I found the following sentence ungrammatical for its intended meaning:<br> | I found the following sentence ungrammatical for its intended meaning:<br /> | ||
"Marcel Jeannin is a Canadian actor, cartoon and video game voice actor." | "Marcel Jeannin is a Canadian actor, cartoon and video game voice actor." | ||
Because only one "AND" was used, the only grammatical parsing of this sentence is that there are 3 nouns:<br> | Because only one "AND" was used, the only grammatical parsing of this sentence is that there are 3 nouns:<br /> | ||
Marcel Jeannin is a Canadian ''<noun1>'', ''<noun2>'' AND ''<adjective>'' ''<noun3>''. | Marcel Jeannin is a Canadian ''<noun1>'', ''<noun2>'' AND ''<adjective>'' ''<noun3>''. | ||
The construction above forces "cartoon" to serve as a noun. | The construction above forces "cartoon" to serve as a noun. So the sentence - if it's grammatical - actually says that the man is 3 nouns: an actor, a cartoon AND a voice actor. Because of this I revised it. | ||
For "cartoon" to serve here as an adjective that modifies "voice actor" (in the same way that "video game" is used), there are two main options: | For "cartoon" to serve here as an adjective that modifies "voice actor" (in the same way that "video game" is used), there are two main options: | ||
1. Give "cartoon" its own noun to modify, making a series of 3 nouns.<br> | 1. Give "cartoon" its own noun to modify, making a series of 3 nouns.<br /> | ||
Marcel is an actor, cartoon voice actor AND video game voice actor.<br> | Marcel is an actor, cartoon voice actor AND video game voice actor.<br /> | ||
Marcel is an ''<noun1>'', ''<adjective> <noun2>'' AND ''<adjective> <noun3>'' | Marcel is an ''<noun1>'', ''<adjective> <noun2>'' AND ''<adjective> <noun3>'' | ||
In a series of 3 nouns, an "AND" is needed only between the second and third nouns. | In a series of 3 nouns, an "AND" is needed only between the second and third nouns. | ||
2. Since ''<noun2>'' and ''<noun3>'' are the same, some may prefer to use only 2 nouns, but the "AND" (or a synonym) must always be properly placed. | 2. Since ''<noun2>'' and ''<noun3>'' are the same, some may prefer to use only 2 nouns, but the "AND" (or a synonym) must always be properly placed. To help understand this, start with a base version of the sentence without adjectives.<br /> | ||
Marcel is an actor AND voice actor. ''(My first revision was along this line.)''<br> | Marcel is an actor AND voice actor. ''(My first revision was along this line.)''<br /> | ||
Marcel is an ''<noun1>'' AND ''<noun2>''. | Marcel is an ''<noun1>'' AND ''<noun2>''. | ||
If we wish to modify "voice actor" with an adjective (or adjective phrase), we add it after the "and".<br> | If we wish to modify "voice actor" with an adjective (or adjective phrase), we add it after the "and".<br /> | ||
Marcel is an actor AND ''<adjective>'' voice actor.<br> | Marcel is an actor AND ''<adjective>'' voice actor.<br /> | ||
Marcel is an actor AND cartoon voice actor. | Marcel is an actor AND cartoon voice actor. | ||
If we wish to put 2 adjectives for "voice actor", both must come after the "and".<br /> | |||
If we wish to put 2 adjectives for "voice actor", both must come after the "and".<br> | Marcel is an actor AND ''<adjective1>'' and ''<adjective2>'' voice actor.<br /> | ||
Marcel is an actor AND ''<adjective1>'' and ''<adjective2>'' voice actor.<br> | Marcel is an actor AND cartoon and video game voice actor.<br /> | ||
Marcel is an actor AND cartoon and video game voice actor.<br> | Marcel is an actor AS WELL AS a voice actor for cartoons and video games. ''(This was my 2nd attempt.)'' | ||
Marcel is an actor AS WELL AS a voice actor for cartoons and video games. | |||
These may be further rephrased/improved, but always sticking to the above syntax for grammatically-correct sentences. In all cases, the "AND" cannot be replaced by a comma and remain grammatical. Needless to say, an ungrammatical sentence - even if we can grasp its intended meaning despite the error - is not a substitute in this wiki for saying things grammatically. Thanks. --[[User:Mercury McKinnon|Mercury McKinnon]] ([[User talk:Mercury McKinnon|talk]]) 19:36, September 14, 2012 (UTC) | These may be further rephrased/improved, but always sticking to the above syntax for grammatically-correct sentences. In all cases, the "AND" cannot be replaced by a comma and remain grammatical. Needless to say, an ungrammatical sentence - even if we can grasp its intended meaning despite the error - is not a substitute in this wiki for saying things grammatically. Thanks. --[[User:Mercury McKinnon|Mercury McKinnon]] ([[User talk:Mercury McKinnon|talk]]) 19:36, September 14, 2012 (UTC) | ||
Revision as of 21:37, 14 September 2012
Grammar review
Please pardon the length. I hate to belabor what should be a simple grammatical point, but I don't know how else to justify my revisions (1st here and 2nd here) except by being thorough.
I found the following sentence ungrammatical for its intended meaning:
"Marcel Jeannin is a Canadian actor, cartoon and video game voice actor."
Because only one "AND" was used, the only grammatical parsing of this sentence is that there are 3 nouns:
Marcel Jeannin is a Canadian <noun1>, <noun2> AND <adjective> <noun3>.
The construction above forces "cartoon" to serve as a noun. So the sentence - if it's grammatical - actually says that the man is 3 nouns: an actor, a cartoon AND a voice actor. Because of this I revised it.
For "cartoon" to serve here as an adjective that modifies "voice actor" (in the same way that "video game" is used), there are two main options:
1. Give "cartoon" its own noun to modify, making a series of 3 nouns.
Marcel is an actor, cartoon voice actor AND video game voice actor.
Marcel is an <noun1>, <adjective> <noun2> AND <adjective> <noun3>
In a series of 3 nouns, an "AND" is needed only between the second and third nouns.
2. Since <noun2> and <noun3> are the same, some may prefer to use only 2 nouns, but the "AND" (or a synonym) must always be properly placed. To help understand this, start with a base version of the sentence without adjectives.
Marcel is an actor AND voice actor. (My first revision was along this line.)
Marcel is an <noun1> AND <noun2>.
If we wish to modify "voice actor" with an adjective (or adjective phrase), we add it after the "and".
Marcel is an actor AND <adjective> voice actor.
Marcel is an actor AND cartoon voice actor.
If we wish to put 2 adjectives for "voice actor", both must come after the "and".
Marcel is an actor AND <adjective1> and <adjective2> voice actor.
Marcel is an actor AND cartoon and video game voice actor.
Marcel is an actor AS WELL AS a voice actor for cartoons and video games. (This was my 2nd attempt.)
These may be further rephrased/improved, but always sticking to the above syntax for grammatically-correct sentences. In all cases, the "AND" cannot be replaced by a comma and remain grammatical. Needless to say, an ungrammatical sentence - even if we can grasp its intended meaning despite the error - is not a substitute in this wiki for saying things grammatically. Thanks. --Mercury McKinnon (talk) 19:36, September 14, 2012 (UTC)