Talk:Saladin - Revision history

imported>Darman36: /* Diacritics in name */

2024-12-28T03:25:19Z

Diacritics in name

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:25, 28 December 2024
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	== Diacritics in name ==		== Diacritics in name ==

	First there is the question of whether we should move this to "Saladin", the anglicized version of his name he's commonly known by in English in real-life. I believe that we opted for Salāḥ ad-Dīn originally because that is what he's called in ''Assassin's Creed'', but "Saladin" does appear in other sources such as ''The Essential Guide''. I think this question is similarly to the one I [[Talk:~~Christopher Columbus~~\|posed]] for [[Christopher Columbus]] except in this case I prefer Saladin while in that case I prefer "Christoffa Corombo" since "Christopher Columbus" is only mentioned briefly in a source where he has far less screen time. (I only accept "Christopher Columbus" because I know Ubisoft sees the film as of a higher tier of canonicity to ''Discovery'' even though the film fits in less to the lore...) Ahem anyways, we should consider moving this to Saladin.		First there is the question of whether we should move this to "Saladin", the anglicized version of his name he's commonly known by in English in real-life. I believe that we opted for Salāḥ ad-Dīn originally because that is what he's called in ''Assassin's Creed'', but "Saladin" does appear in other sources such as ''The Essential Guide''. I think this question is similarly to the one I [[Talk:Christoffa Corombo\|posed]] for [[Christoffa Corombo\|Christopher Columbus]] except in this case I prefer Saladin while in that case I prefer "Christoffa Corombo" since "Christopher Columbus" is only mentioned briefly in a source where he has far less screen time. (I only accept "Christopher Columbus" because I know Ubisoft sees the film as of a higher tier of canonicity to ''Discovery'' even though the film fits in less to the lore...) Ahem anyways, we should consider moving this to Saladin.

	The other question is on the use of diacritics. Now I know the diacritics are to more accurately transcribe the proper pronunciation of the name from Arabic, and I support that wholeheartedly. In fact, I personally think that in the real-world, it should be convention for Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Arabic names, etc. to all maintain diacritics when romanized. (cough This would easily solve the confusion between the provinces of ~~[[wikipedia:~~Shanxi\|Shānxī]] and ~~[[wikipedia:~~Shaanxi\|Shǎnxī]]). However, this is ''not'' current English convention, and while I favor it, we should be consistent. If we're using diacritics for Salāḥ ad-Dīn, then [[Abu'l Nuqoud]] should be spelled Abu'l Nuqūd, Altaïr should be spelled "Alṭāïr", and [[Jiajing Emperor]] should be spelled "Jiājìng Emperor". Moving this to Saladin would be an easy solution for this issue though. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 22:25, February 23, 2017 (UTC)		The other question is on the use of diacritics. Now I know the diacritics are to more accurately transcribe the proper pronunciation of the name from Arabic, and I support that wholeheartedly. In fact, I personally think that in the real-world, it should be convention for Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Arabic names, etc. to all maintain diacritics when romanized. (cough This would easily solve the confusion between the provinces of {{Wiki\|Shanxi\|Shānxī}} and {{Wiki\|Shaanxi\|Shǎnxī}}). However, this is ''not'' current English convention, and while I favor it, we should be consistent. If we're using diacritics for Salāḥ ad-Dīn, then [[Abu'l Nuqoud]] should be spelled Abu'l Nuqūd, Altaïr should be spelled "Alṭāïr", and [[Zhu Houcong\|Jiajing Emperor]] should be spelled "Jiājìng Emperor". Moving this to Saladin would be an easy solution for this issue though. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 22:25, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
	:I am moving this page to "Saladin". It is the spelling used in ''The Essential Guide''. I am not sure about in the ''Encyclopedia'' though. ''The Secret Crusade'' actually uses the spelling "Salah Al'din", so a case can be made that it should be moved there instead, especially since he actually appears in it. This, I think, is the same case as [[Christopher Columbus]], where he is a main character in ''Discovery'', where his name is spelled "Christoffa Corombo", but he is referred to in more minor appearances by the name he is better known by in real-life. Right now, I am going to go with Saladin, based on the newer source, and for consistency with "Christopher Columbus", but I definitely encourage you guys to provide your thoughts on this. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 11:37, March 11, 2017 (UTC)		:I am moving this page to "Saladin". It is the spelling used in ''The Essential Guide''. I am not sure about in the ''Encyclopedia'' though. ''The Secret Crusade'' actually uses the spelling "Salah Al'din", so a case can be made that it should be moved there instead, especially since he actually appears in it. This, I think, is the same case as Christopher Columbus, where he is a main character in ''Discovery'', where his name is spelled "Christoffa Corombo", but he is referred to in more minor appearances by the name he is better known by in real-life. Right now, I am going to go with Saladin, based on the newer source, and for consistency with "Christopher Columbus", but I definitely encourage you guys to provide your thoughts on this. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 11:37, March 11, 2017 (UTC)

imported>Arabian411269: /* The Name */

2019-12-03T03:57:12Z

The Name

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:57, 3 December 2019
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	Take it from me, an Arabic speaker by birth. The meaning of the name "Saladin" or "Salah Al'din" has always been controversial. صلاح الدين الايوبي. "The Ayyoubid, Righteousness of the Faith" is the exact meaning of his name where "Salah" with a heavier "h" sound means "Good" or "Usefulness" in general. However "Din" دين actually pronounced "Deen" means "Religion" or "Faith". Plus he is a follower of the Ayyoubid sect of Islam. So together you get "Salah Al-Deen al-Ayyoubi", add a little mistakes in pronounciation and English mother tongue interference you get "Saladin The Ayyoubid" short "Saladin".		Take it from me, an Arabic speaker by birth. The meaning of the name "Saladin" or "Salah Al'din" has always been controversial. صلاح الدين الايوبي. "The Ayyoubid, Righteousness of the Faith" is the exact meaning of his name where "Salah" with a heavier "h" sound means "Good" or "Usefulness" in general. However "Din" دين actually pronounced "Deen" means "Religion" or "Faith". Plus he is a follower of the Ayyoubid sect of Islam. So together you get "Salah Al-Deen al-Ayyoubi", add a little mistakes in pronounciation and English mother tongue interference you get "Saladin The Ayyoubid" short "Saladin".


	~~Arabian411269 - omar411269@yahoo.com~~

	==main picture==		==main picture==

imported>RebeccaAWB: Adding {{Talkheader}}

2019-07-02T15:11:44Z

Adding {{Talkheader}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:11, 2 July 2019
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			{{Talkheader}}
	==Regarding The name==		==Regarding The name==
	Fixing the whole "it's a whole name" thing. ad-Din is actually an epithet, it means "the Just". He's "Salah the Just" in Arabic.		Fixing the whole "it's a whole name" thing. ad-Din is actually an epithet, it means "the Just". He's "Salah the Just" in Arabic.

imported>Sol Pacificus: Sol Pacificus moved page Talk:Salāḥ ad-Dīn to Talk:Saladin over redirect: Per talk page

2017-03-11T11:38:05Z

Sol Pacificus moved page Talk:Salāḥ ad-Dīn to Talk:Saladin over redirect: Per talk page

← Older revision	Revision as of 13:38, 11 March 2017
(No difference)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Diacritics in name */

2017-03-11T11:37:25Z

Diacritics in name

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:37, 11 March 2017
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	The other question is on the use of diacritics. Now I know the diacritics are to more accurately transcribe the proper pronunciation of the name from Arabic, and I support that wholeheartedly. In fact, I personally think that in the real-world, it should be convention for Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Arabic names, etc. to all maintain diacritics when romanized. (cough This would easily solve the confusion between the provinces of [[wikipedia:Shanxi\|Shānxī]] and [[wikipedia:Shaanxi\|Shǎnxī]]). However, this is ''not'' current English convention, and while I favor it, we should be consistent. If we're using diacritics for Salāḥ ad-Dīn, then [[Abu'l Nuqoud]] should be spelled Abu'l Nuqūd, Altaïr should be spelled "Alṭāïr", and [[Jiajing Emperor]] should be spelled "Jiājìng Emperor". Moving this to Saladin would be an easy solution for this issue though. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 22:25, February 23, 2017 (UTC)		The other question is on the use of diacritics. Now I know the diacritics are to more accurately transcribe the proper pronunciation of the name from Arabic, and I support that wholeheartedly. In fact, I personally think that in the real-world, it should be convention for Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Arabic names, etc. to all maintain diacritics when romanized. (cough This would easily solve the confusion between the provinces of [[wikipedia:Shanxi\|Shānxī]] and [[wikipedia:Shaanxi\|Shǎnxī]]). However, this is ''not'' current English convention, and while I favor it, we should be consistent. If we're using diacritics for Salāḥ ad-Dīn, then [[Abu'l Nuqoud]] should be spelled Abu'l Nuqūd, Altaïr should be spelled "Alṭāïr", and [[Jiajing Emperor]] should be spelled "Jiājìng Emperor". Moving this to Saladin would be an easy solution for this issue though. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 22:25, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
			:I am moving this page to "Saladin". It is the spelling used in ''The Essential Guide''. I am not sure about in the ''Encyclopedia'' though. ''The Secret Crusade'' actually uses the spelling "Salah Al'din", so a case can be made that it should be moved there instead, especially since he actually appears in it. This, I think, is the same case as [[Christopher Columbus]], where he is a main character in ''Discovery'', where his name is spelled "Christoffa Corombo", but he is referred to in more minor appearances by the name he is better known by in real-life. Right now, I am going to go with Saladin, based on the newer source, and for consistency with "Christopher Columbus", but I definitely encourage you guys to provide your thoughts on this. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 11:37, March 11, 2017 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Diacritics in name */ new section

2017-02-23T22:25:12Z

Diacritics in name: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:25, 24 February 2017
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	Whatever the case, it's not explicit so we shouldn't make any assumptions, but I don't know if we should at least mention he is an ally of Robert de Sablé somewhere. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 06:11, February 8, 2017 (UTC)		Whatever the case, it's not explicit so we shouldn't make any assumptions, but I don't know if we should at least mention he is an ally of Robert de Sablé somewhere. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 06:11, February 8, 2017 (UTC)

			== Diacritics in name ==

			First there is the question of whether we should move this to "Saladin", the anglicized version of his name he's commonly known by in English in real-life. I believe that we opted for Salāḥ ad-Dīn originally because that is what he's called in ''Assassin's Creed'', but "Saladin" does appear in other sources such as ''The Essential Guide''. I think this question is similarly to the one I [[Talk:Christopher Columbus\|posed]] for [[Christopher Columbus]] except in this case I prefer Saladin while in that case I prefer "Christoffa Corombo" since "Christopher Columbus" is only mentioned briefly in a source where he has far less screen time. (I only accept "Christopher Columbus" because I know Ubisoft sees the film as of a higher tier of canonicity to ''Discovery'' even though the film fits in less to the lore...) Ahem anyways, we should consider moving this to Saladin.

			The other question is on the use of diacritics. Now I know the diacritics are to more accurately transcribe the proper pronunciation of the name from Arabic, and I support that wholeheartedly. In fact, I personally think that in the real-world, it should be convention for Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Arabic names, etc. to all maintain diacritics when romanized. (cough This would easily solve the confusion between the provinces of [[wikipedia:Shanxi\|Shānxī]] and [[wikipedia:Shaanxi\|Shǎnxī]]). However, this is ''not'' current English convention, and while I favor it, we should be consistent. If we're using diacritics for Salāḥ ad-Dīn, then [[Abu'l Nuqoud]] should be spelled Abu'l Nuqūd, Altaïr should be spelled "Alṭāïr", and [[Jiajing Emperor]] should be spelled "Jiājìng Emperor". Moving this to Saladin would be an easy solution for this issue though. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 22:25, February 23, 2017 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Templar ally */ new section

2017-02-08T06:11:58Z

Templar ally: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:11, 8 February 2017
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	thats concept art for tamir not saladin (as seen on tamirs page on the assassins creed 1 art book)		thats concept art for tamir not saladin (as seen on tamirs page on the assassins creed 1 art book)
	:Hm... Seems you're right. But please, sign your posts.[[User:Amnestyyy\|<span style="font-family:Blackadder ITC;font-size:19px;color:#FF033E;">'''Nesty'''</span>]] [[User_Talk:Amnestyyy\|<sup><span style="font-family:FlamencoD;color:#9966CC;">Contact me!</span></sup>]] 10:16, December 26, 2011 (UTC)		:Hm... Seems you're right. But please, sign your posts.[[User:Amnestyyy\|<span style="font-family:Blackadder ITC;font-size:19px;color:#FF033E;">'''Nesty'''</span>]] [[User_Talk:Amnestyyy\|<sup><span style="font-family:FlamencoD;color:#9966CC;">Contact me!</span></sup>]] 10:16, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

			== Templar ally ==

			In ''The Essential Guide'', Saladin is listed in the section "Templars and Allies". He is also listed as an ally of the [[Robert de Sablé]]. This technically can imply that he was a Templar himself. However, [[Tarik Barleti]], a mole within the Templar Order is also listed in the section "Templars and Allies" even while acknowledging he was just a spy. As a result, I think the authors of this book was rather loose with the categorization of "Templar ally" and may have included Saladin merely because at one point he fought against the Assassins.

			It's unlikely he was actually a Templar given he personally executed the Grand Master [[Gerard de Ridefort]] at the [[Siege of Acre]], and historically he allied with the Assassins after their last assassination attempt on him in 1176. However, he's listed as an ally of ''Robert de Sablé'', Ridefort's successor, not Ridefort himself, ''and'' he allied with the Assassins when they were led by [[Al Mualim\|Rashid ad-din Sinan]] so it's not impossible that he was party to Sablé and Sinan's schemes in some way.

			Whatever the case, it's not explicit so we shouldn't make any assumptions, but I don't know if we should at least mention he is an ally of Robert de Sablé somewhere. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 06:11, February 8, 2017 (UTC)

imported>Jasca Ducato: Jasca Ducato moved page Talk:Saladin to Talk:Salāḥ ad-Dīn: Our articles overwhelmingly use the native spelling of names

2013-09-16T11:59:43Z

Jasca Ducato moved page Talk:Saladin to Talk:Salāḥ ad-Dīn: Our articles overwhelmingly use the native spelling of names

← Older revision	Revision as of 13:59, 16 September 2013
(No difference)

imported>Master Sima Yi: moved Talk:Salah Al'din to Talk:Saladin over redirect: Seems that most media call him as such.

2012-03-04T20:43:56Z

moved Talk:Salah Al'din to Talk:Saladin over redirect: Seems that most media call him as such.

← Older revision	Revision as of 22:43, 4 March 2012
(No difference)

imported>Amnestyyy: /* main picture */

2011-12-26T10:16:37Z

main picture

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:16, 26 December 2011
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	==main picture==		==main picture==
	thats concept art for tamir not saladin (as seen on tamirs page on the assassins creed 1 art book)		thats concept art for tamir not saladin (as seen on tamirs page on the assassins creed 1 art book)
			:Hm... Seems you're right. But please, sign your posts.[[User:Amnestyyy\|<span style="font-family:Blackadder ITC;font-size:19px;color:#FF033E;">'''Nesty'''</span>]] [[User_Talk:Amnestyyy\|<sup><span style="font-family:FlamencoD;color:#9966CC;">Contact me!</span></sup>]] 10:16, December 26, 2011 (UTC)