Talk:Ottoman Brotherhood of Assassins - Revision history

imported>Francesco75: /* "Ottoman Brotherhood of Assassins" (redux) */

2023-10-11T14:48:54Z

"Ottoman Brotherhood of Assassins" (redux)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:48, 11 October 2023
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	:Hence what I advocate is: 1) either we link to an unofficial naming such as "Constantinople Brotherhood" and the like, which then redirects back here (this seems highly spurious, however); or, 2) perhaps, all notions belonging to the activities of the Hidden Ones/Assassins in Constantinople ''before 1453'' could (should..?) be described in the [[Assassin Guild]] article (thus, also revitalizing it). Actually several years ago I had already did this, because it looks like the only logical thing to do, to treat them like a ''guild'' (I mean, that's probably arbitrary, but still probably ''not as much as'' grouping... all of that into this one article now, isn'it?), or, also 3) there's probably an even better solution, which however as of now eludes me and which maybe someone else will come up with.		:Hence what I advocate is: 1) either we link to an unofficial naming such as "Constantinople Brotherhood" and the like, which then redirects back here (this seems highly spurious, however); or, 2) perhaps, all notions belonging to the activities of the Hidden Ones/Assassins in Constantinople ''before 1453'' could (should..?) be described in the [[Assassin Guild]] article (thus, also revitalizing it). Actually several years ago I had already did this, because it looks like the only logical thing to do, to treat them like a ''guild'' (I mean, that's probably arbitrary, but still probably ''not as much as'' grouping... all of that into this one article now, isn'it?), or, also 3) there's probably an even better solution, which however as of now eludes me and which maybe someone else will come up with.
	:So to sum it all up - really, clearly the Hidden Ones in 860s Constantinople are neither "Ottoman" nor "Assassins" now, aren't they. ''This'' is the factual fallacy where my argument comes from. [[User:Piero.schiavone1994\|Piero.schiavone1994]] ([[User talk:Piero.schiavone1994\|talk]]) 14:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)		:So to sum it all up - really, clearly the Hidden Ones in 860s Constantinople are neither "Ottoman" nor "Assassins" now, aren't they. ''This'' is the factual fallacy where my argument comes from. [[User:Piero.schiavone1994\|Piero.schiavone1994]] ([[User talk:Piero.schiavone1994\|talk]]) 14:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
			::Maybe the Thracian Brotherhood, it is the name of the region. Or the Constantinople guild. Or we make a article on the Constantinople Hidden Ones and referencing there actions in the Ottoman Brotherhood.
			::I have the same question about the Louisiana Brotherhood, do we merge their action with the American Brotherhood as they were seperated from the Colonial Brotherhood before the 19th century ?[[User:Francesco75\|Francesco75]] ([[User talk:Francesco75\|talk]]) 14:48, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

imported>Piero.schiavone1994: /* "Ottoman Brotherhood of Assassins" (redux) */

2023-10-11T14:39:16Z

"Ottoman Brotherhood of Assassins" (redux)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:39, 11 October 2023
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	== "Ottoman Brotherhood of Assassins" (redux) ==		== "Ottoman Brotherhood of Assassins" (redux) ==
	Okay so in the light of the events of ''[[Assassin's Creed: Mirage]]'', and seeing as the Wikia basically acts as an outlet of AC-lore to Ubi itself by now (so it's mired in a sort of officiality, if I'm not wrong..?), I'm bringing back this very old and highly contentious (if I recall rightly, through edit descriptions left by several users, both registred and non-) topic. Why "Ottoman Brotherhood"? I mean, yeah, OOU that's obviously because ''Revelations'' came first and the lore was gradually fleshed around through the chronological iterations. But, I mean, lore-wise that simply doesn't make sense, does it? Or, at least, we need to put a clear chronological term to the activity of the "Ottoman Brotherhood" as described in ''this'' article, at least. The conflation Ubi made in ''Revelations'' ("Ottoman Empire = Assassins = the good guys \| Byzantine Empire = Templars = the bad guys") has had a disastrous impact (I recall someone else pointing this out...)		Okay so in the light of the events of ''[[Assassin's Creed: Mirage]]'', and seeing as the Wikia basically acts as an outlet of AC-lore to Ubi itself by now (so it's mired in a sort of officiality, if I'm not wrong..?), I'm bringing back this very old and highly contentious (if I recall rightly, through edit descriptions left by several users, both registred and non-) topic. Why "Ottoman Brotherhood"? I mean, yeah, OOU that's obviously because ''Revelations'' came first and the lore was gradually fleshed around through the chronological iterations. But, I mean, lore-wise that simply doesn't make sense, does it? Or, at least, we need to put a clear chronological term to the activity of the "Ottoman Brotherhood" as described in ''this'' article, at least. The conflation Ubi made in ''Revelations'' ("Ottoman Empire = Assassins = the good guys \| Byzantine Empire = Templars = the bad guys") has had a disastrous impact (I recall someone else pointing this out...)
	:Hence what I advocate is: 1) either we link to an unofficial naming such as "Constantinople Brotherhood" and the like, which then redirects back here (this seems highly spurious, however); or, 2) perhaps, all notions belonging to the activities of the Hidden Ones/Assassins in Constantinople ''before 1453'' could (should..?) be described in the [[Assassin Guild]] article (thus, also revitalizing it). Actually several years ago I had already did this, because it looks like the only logical ~~things~~ to do 3) probably an even better solution, which however as of now eludes me.		:Hence what I advocate is: 1) either we link to an unofficial naming such as "Constantinople Brotherhood" and the like, which then redirects back here (this seems highly spurious, however); or, 2) perhaps, all notions belonging to the activities of the Hidden Ones/Assassins in Constantinople ''before 1453'' could (should..?) be described in the [[Assassin Guild]] article (thus, also revitalizing it). Actually several years ago I had already did this, because it looks like the only logical thing to do, to treat them like a ''guild'' (I mean, that's probably arbitrary, but still probably ''not as much as'' grouping... all of that into this one article now, isn'it?), or, also 3) there's probably an even better solution, which however as of now eludes me and which maybe someone else will come up with.
	:So to sum it all up - really, clearly the Hidden Ones in 860s Constantinople are neither "Ottoman" nor "Assassins" now, aren't they. ''This'' is the factual fallacy where my argument comes from. [[User:Piero.schiavone1994\|Piero.schiavone1994]] ([[User talk:Piero.schiavone1994\|talk]]) 14:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)		:So to sum it all up - really, clearly the Hidden Ones in 860s Constantinople are neither "Ottoman" nor "Assassins" now, aren't they. ''This'' is the factual fallacy where my argument comes from. [[User:Piero.schiavone1994\|Piero.schiavone1994]] ([[User talk:Piero.schiavone1994\|talk]]) 14:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

imported>Piero.schiavone1994: /* "Ottoman Brotherhood" (redux) */

2023-10-11T14:37:18Z

"Ottoman Brotherhood" (redux)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:37, 11 October 2023
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	:::Personally, there's not much outside of the Ottoman Assassin branch, so I suggest we keep it as one whole article until more information can be incorporated. [[User:Slate Vesper\|Slate Vesper]] ([[User talk:Slate Vesper\|talk]]) 22:39, September 21, 2013 (UTC)		:::Personally, there's not much outside of the Ottoman Assassin branch, so I suggest we keep it as one whole article until more information can be incorporated. [[User:Slate Vesper\|Slate Vesper]] ([[User talk:Slate Vesper\|talk]]) 22:39, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

	== "Ottoman Brotherhood" (redux) ==		== "Ottoman Brotherhood of Assassins" (redux) ==

	Okay so in the light of the events of ''[[Assassin's Creed: Mirage]]'', and seeing as the Wikia basically acts as an outlet of AC-lore to Ubi itself by now (so it's mired in a sort of officiality, if I'm not wrong..?), I'm bringing back this very old and highly contentious (if I recall rightly, through edit descriptions left by several users, both registred and non-) topic. Why "Ottoman Brotherhood"? I mean, yeah, OOU that's obviously because ''Revelations'' came first and the lore was gradually fleshed around through the chronological iterations. But, I mean, lore-wise that simply doesn't make sense, does it? Or, at least, we need to put a clear chronological term to the activity of the "Ottoman Brotherhood" as described in ''this'' article, at least. The conflation Ubi made in ''Revelations'' ("Ottoman Empire = Assassins = the good guys \| Byzantine Empire = Templars = the bad guys") has had a disastrous impact (I recall someone else pointing this out...)		Okay so in the light of the events of ''[[Assassin's Creed: Mirage]]'', and seeing as the Wikia basically acts as an outlet of AC-lore to Ubi itself by now (so it's mired in a sort of officiality, if I'm not wrong..?), I'm bringing back this very old and highly contentious (if I recall rightly, through edit descriptions left by several users, both registred and non-) topic. Why "Ottoman Brotherhood"? I mean, yeah, OOU that's obviously because ''Revelations'' came first and the lore was gradually fleshed around through the chronological iterations. But, I mean, lore-wise that simply doesn't make sense, does it? Or, at least, we need to put a clear chronological term to the activity of the "Ottoman Brotherhood" as described in ''this'' article, at least. The conflation Ubi made in ''Revelations'' ("Ottoman Empire = Assassins = the good guys \| Byzantine Empire = Templars = the bad guys") has had a disastrous impact (I recall someone else pointing this out...)
	Hence what I advocate is: 1) either we link to an unofficial naming such as "Constantinople Brotherhood" and the like, which then redirects back here (this seems highly spurious, however); or, 2) perhaps, all notions belonging to the activities of the Hidden Ones/Assassins in Constantinople ''before 1453'' could (should..?) be described in the [[Assassin Guild]] article (thus, also revitalizing it). Actually several years ago I had already did this, because it looks like the only logical things to do 3) probably an even better solution, which however as of now eludes me.		:Hence what I advocate is: 1) either we link to an unofficial naming such as "Constantinople Brotherhood" and the like, which then redirects back here (this seems highly spurious, however); or, 2) perhaps, all notions belonging to the activities of the Hidden Ones/Assassins in Constantinople ''before 1453'' could (should..?) be described in the [[Assassin Guild]] article (thus, also revitalizing it). Actually several years ago I had already did this, because it looks like the only logical things to do 3) probably an even better solution, which however as of now eludes me.
	:So to sum it all up - really, clearly the Hidden Ones in 860s Constantinople are neither "Ottoman" nor "Assassins" now, aren't they. ''This'' is the factual fallacy where my argument comes from. [[User:Piero.schiavone1994\|Piero.schiavone1994]] ([[User talk:Piero.schiavone1994\|talk]]) 14:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)		:So to sum it all up - really, clearly the Hidden Ones in 860s Constantinople are neither "Ottoman" nor "Assassins" now, aren't they. ''This'' is the factual fallacy where my argument comes from. [[User:Piero.schiavone1994\|Piero.schiavone1994]] ([[User talk:Piero.schiavone1994\|talk]]) 14:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

imported>Piero.schiavone1994: /* "Ottoman Brotherhood" (redux) */ new section

2023-10-11T14:36:26Z

"Ottoman Brotherhood" (redux): new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:36, 11 October 2023
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	:::Personally, there's not much outside of the Ottoman Assassin branch, so I suggest we keep it as one whole article until more information can be incorporated. [[User:Slate Vesper\|Slate Vesper]] ([[User talk:Slate Vesper\|talk]]) 22:39, September 21, 2013 (UTC)		:::Personally, there's not much outside of the Ottoman Assassin branch, so I suggest we keep it as one whole article until more information can be incorporated. [[User:Slate Vesper\|Slate Vesper]] ([[User talk:Slate Vesper\|talk]]) 22:39, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

			== "Ottoman Brotherhood" (redux) ==

			Okay so in the light of the events of ''[[Assassin's Creed: Mirage]]'', and seeing as the Wikia basically acts as an outlet of AC-lore to Ubi itself by now (so it's mired in a sort of officiality, if I'm not wrong..?), I'm bringing back this very old and highly contentious (if I recall rightly, through edit descriptions left by several users, both registred and non-) topic. Why "Ottoman Brotherhood"? I mean, yeah, OOU that's obviously because ''Revelations'' came first and the lore was gradually fleshed around through the chronological iterations. But, I mean, lore-wise that simply doesn't make sense, does it? Or, at least, we need to put a clear chronological term to the activity of the "Ottoman Brotherhood" as described in ''this'' article, at least. The conflation Ubi made in ''Revelations'' ("Ottoman Empire = Assassins = the good guys \| Byzantine Empire = Templars = the bad guys") has had a disastrous impact (I recall someone else pointing this out...)
			Hence what I advocate is: 1) either we link to an unofficial naming such as "Constantinople Brotherhood" and the like, which then redirects back here (this seems highly spurious, however); or, 2) perhaps, all notions belonging to the activities of the Hidden Ones/Assassins in Constantinople ''before 1453'' could (should..?) be described in the [[Assassin Guild]] article (thus, also revitalizing it). Actually several years ago I had already did this, because it looks like the only logical things to do 3) probably an even better solution, which however as of now eludes me.
			:So to sum it all up - really, clearly the Hidden Ones in 860s Constantinople are neither "Ottoman" nor "Assassins" now, aren't they. ''This'' is the factual fallacy where my argument comes from. [[User:Piero.schiavone1994\|Piero.schiavone1994]] ([[User talk:Piero.schiavone1994\|talk]]) 14:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

imported>RebeccaAWB: /* top */Adding {{Talkheader}}

2019-07-02T14:56:08Z

top: Adding {{Talkheader}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:56, 2 July 2019
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			{{Talkheader}}
	I think this page should be renamed, as the guild existed before there was any such thing as Turkey, and indeed while the region was still largely Greek. Maybe Constantinople Assassin Guild would be a better choice of title? [[User:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:purple">'''Makao the Byzantine'''</span>]] {<small>[[User talk:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:white">T/\L\|<</span>]]</small>} 11:08, November 30, 2012 (UTC)		I think this page should be renamed, as the guild existed before there was any such thing as Turkey, and indeed while the region was still largely Greek. Maybe Constantinople Assassin Guild would be a better choice of title? [[User:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:purple">'''Makao the Byzantine'''</span>]] {<small>[[User talk:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:white">T/\L\|<</span>]]</small>} 11:08, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: Sol Pacificus moved page Talk:Turkish Assassins to Talk:Ottoman Brotherhood of Assassins: Since we've moved all Templar branches to their official names, we should do the same with the Assassins for consistency. Source is ''The Essential Guide''

2017-02-14T17:30:39Z

Sol Pacificus moved page Talk:Turkish Assassins to Talk:Ottoman Brotherhood of Assassins: Since we've moved all Templar branches to their official names, we should do the same with the Assassins for consistency. Source is ''The Essential Guide''

← Older revision	Revision as of 19:30, 14 February 2017
(No difference)

imported>Slate Vesper at 22:39, 21 September 2013

2013-09-21T22:39:48Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:39, 22 September 2013
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	::Not really, the guild existed before the Ottomans, too. [[User:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:purple">'''Makao the Byzantine'''</span>]] {<small>[[User talk:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:white">T/\L\|<</span>]]</small>} 21:12, September 20, 2013 (UTC)		::Not really, the guild existed before the Ottomans, too. [[User:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:purple">'''Makao the Byzantine'''</span>]] {<small>[[User talk:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:white">T/\L\|<</span>]]</small>} 21:12, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

			:::Either we keep it as Turkish to maintain uniformness across the different points of the Assassins' influence in the region that's now Turkey, or we divide the page up into different Assassin branches depending on the geographical and historical changes.

			:::Personally, there's not much outside of the Ottoman Assassin branch, so I suggest we keep it as one whole article until more information can be incorporated. [[User:Slate Vesper\|Slate Vesper]] ([[User talk:Slate Vesper\|talk]]) 22:39, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

imported>Toa Makao at 21:12, 20 September 2013

2013-09-20T21:12:25Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:12, 20 September 2013
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	:If anything, Ottoman Assassins fits better. --[[User:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" face="OCR A" size="3">Kainzorus Prime</font>]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#4C99A6"><sup>Walkie-talkie</sup></font>]] 22:08, September 18, 2013 (UTC)		:If anything, Ottoman Assassins fits better. --[[User:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" face="OCR A" size="3">Kainzorus Prime</font>]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#4C99A6"><sup>Walkie-talkie</sup></font>]] 22:08, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

			::Not really, the guild existed before the Ottomans, too. [[User:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:purple">'''Makao the Byzantine'''</span>]] {<small>[[User talk:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:white">T/\L\|<</span>]]</small>} 21:12, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

imported>Kainzorus Prime at 22:08, 18 September 2013

2013-09-18T22:08:20Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:08, 19 September 2013
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	I think this page should be renamed, as the guild existed before there was any such thing as Turkey, and indeed while the region was still largely Greek. Maybe Constantinople Assassin Guild would be a better choice of title? [[User:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:purple">'''Makao the Byzantine'''</span>]] {<small>[[User talk:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:white">T/\L\|<</span>]]</small>} 11:08, November 30, 2012 (UTC)		I think this page should be renamed, as the guild existed before there was any such thing as Turkey, and indeed while the region was still largely Greek. Maybe Constantinople Assassin Guild would be a better choice of title? [[User:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:purple">'''Makao the Byzantine'''</span>]] {<small>[[User talk:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:white">T/\L\|<</span>]]</small>} 11:08, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

			:If anything, Ottoman Assassins fits better. --[[User:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" face="OCR A" size="3">Kainzorus Prime</font>]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#4C99A6"><sup>Walkie-talkie</sup></font>]] 22:08, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

imported>Toa Makao at 20:50, 18 September 2013

2013-09-18T20:50:50Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:50, 18 September 2013
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	I think this page should be renamed, as the guild existed before there was any such thing as Turkey. Maybe Constantinople Assassin Guild? {~~{SUBST:~~User:Toa Makao/~~Sig}~~} 11:08, November 30, 2012 (UTC)		I think this page should be renamed, as the guild existed before there was any such thing as Turkey, and indeed while the region was still largely Greek. Maybe Constantinople Assassin Guild would be a better choice of title? [[User:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:purple">'''Makao the Byzantine'''</span>]] {<small>[[User talk:Toa Makao\|<span style="font-family:Constantia;font-size:18px;color:white">T/\L\|<</span>]]</small>} 11:08, November 30, 2012 (UTC)