https://assassinscreedwiki.accesstheanimus.com/index.php?action=history&feed=atom&title=Talk%3AMasunTalk:Masun - Revision history2026-06-08T14:58:52ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.42.3https://assassinscreedwiki.accesstheanimus.com/index.php?title=Talk:Masun&diff=594907&oldid=previmported>RebeccaAWB: /* top */Adding {{Talkheader}}2019-07-02T14:45:12Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">top: </span>Adding {{Talkheader}}</span></p>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">{{Talkheader}}</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I believe he was an Assassin. Altair mentioned calling him "Brother", which I don't hink they would call an ordinary citizen of Masyaf. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 15:03, October 17, 2014 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I believe he was an Assassin. Altair mentioned calling him "Brother", which I don't hink they would call an ordinary citizen of Masyaf. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 15:03, October 17, 2014 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
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</table>imported>RebeccaAWBhttps://assassinscreedwiki.accesstheanimus.com/index.php?title=Talk:Masun&diff=594906&oldid=previmported>Toolen at 17:50, 18 September 20152015-09-18T17:50:29Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::::There remains no hard evidence that he ISN'T an Assassin, and the majority of the evidence suggests otherwise. I am merely trying to restore what has been accepted fact on this wiki for years, and should never have been changed based on speculation. Furthermore, let's not forget that I wasn't the one who started reverting edits without trying to refute my evidence in the talk page. Granted, I initially changed the article without providing a sufficient reason, but once issues arose, I started this conversation so that we could discuss this issue. Kainzorus chose to ignore this and revert the edits behind my back. Whether this was intentional or not remains to be seen, but the fact remains. Now, if no one else has any further evidence, I would like to add the templates. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 03:21, November 19, 2014 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::::There remains no hard evidence that he ISN'T an Assassin, and the majority of the evidence suggests otherwise. I am merely trying to restore what has been accepted fact on this wiki for years, and should never have been changed based on speculation. Furthermore, let's not forget that I wasn't the one who started reverting edits without trying to refute my evidence in the talk page. Granted, I initially changed the article without providing a sufficient reason, but once issues arose, I started this conversation so that we could discuss this issue. Kainzorus chose to ignore this and revert the edits behind my back. Whether this was intentional or not remains to be seen, but the fact remains. Now, if no one else has any further evidence, I would like to add the templates. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 03:21, November 19, 2014 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Is tenure any way to get in touch with the people at Ubisoft to ask about Masun's true connection to the Assassins? I know this was done to settle the matter on Rashid's page. I know the edit war is over, but an official source on the matter would be helpful. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 17:50, September 18, 2015 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>imported>Toolenhttps://assassinscreedwiki.accesstheanimus.com/index.php?title=Talk:Masun&diff=594905&oldid=previmported>Toolen at 03:21, 19 November 20142014-11-19T03:21:17Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::If no one else has any evidence that refutes my own, I will add the templates to the article. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 02:08, November 19, 2014 (UTC) </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::If no one else has any evidence that refutes my own, I will add the templates to the article. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 02:08, November 19, 2014 (UTC) </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::::There has been no hard and fast proof that Masun <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> </del>is an Assassin, as everyone else in this thread has been saying. Until such proof can be presented, the templates remain off and there will be no further edit wars. [[User:DarkFeather|<font color="#000">DarkFeather</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:DarkFeather|<font color="#FFF">Raven's Nest</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User:DarkFeather/Sandbox|<font color="#F00">Raven's Hunt</font>]]</sub> 02:39, November 19, 2014 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::::There has been no hard and fast proof that Masun is an Assassin, as everyone else in this thread has been saying. Until such proof can be presented, the templates remain off and there will be no further edit wars. [[User:DarkFeather|<font color="#000">DarkFeather</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:DarkFeather|<font color="#FFF">Raven's Nest</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User:DarkFeather/Sandbox|<font color="#F00">Raven's Hunt</font>]]</sub> 02:39<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, November 19, 2014 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::::::There remains no hard evidence that he ISN'T an Assassin, and the majority of the evidence suggests otherwise. I am merely trying to restore what has been accepted fact on this wiki for years, and should never have been changed based on speculation. Furthermore, let's not forget that I wasn't the one who started reverting edits without trying to refute my evidence in the talk page. Granted, I initially changed the article without providing a sufficient reason, but once issues arose, I started this conversation so that we could discuss this issue. Kainzorus chose to ignore this and revert the edits behind my back. Whether this was intentional or not remains to be seen, but the fact remains. Now, if no one else has any further evidence, I would like to add the templates. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 03:21</ins>, November 19, 2014 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
</table>imported>Toolenhttps://assassinscreedwiki.accesstheanimus.com/index.php?title=Talk:Masun&diff=594904&oldid=previmported>DarkFeather: This stops here.2014-11-19T02:39:32Z<p>This stops here.</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::If no one else has any evidence that refutes my own, I will add the templates to the article. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 02:08, November 19, 2014 (UTC) </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::If no one else has any evidence that refutes my own, I will add the templates to the article. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 02:08, November 19, 2014 (UTC) </div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::::::There has been no hard and fast proof that Masun is an Assassin, as everyone else in this thread has been saying. Until such proof can be presented, the templates remain off and there will be no further edit wars. [[User:DarkFeather|<font color="#000">DarkFeather</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:DarkFeather|<font color="#FFF">Raven's Nest</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User:DarkFeather/Sandbox|<font color="#F00">Raven's Hunt</font>]]</sub> 02:39, November 19, 2014 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>imported>DarkFeatherhttps://assassinscreedwiki.accesstheanimus.com/index.php?title=Talk:Masun&diff=594903&oldid=previmported>Toolen at 02:08, 19 November 20142014-11-19T02:08:48Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::It's also never stated that Cesare Borgia wasn't an Assassin, but we all know he wasn't. It's safer to assume that Masun was not an Assassin than that he was an Assassin. Also, Al Mualim '''ordered''' Altaïr to bring Masun before him. As reckless as he was, Altaïr was not the type to disobey a direct order. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 21:47, November 12, 2014 (UTC) </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::It's also never stated that Cesare Borgia wasn't an Assassin, but we all know he wasn't. It's safer to assume that Masun was not an Assassin than that he was an Assassin. Also, Al Mualim '''ordered''' Altaïr to bring Masun before him. As reckless as he was, Altaïr was not the type to disobey a direct order. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 21:47, November 12, 2014 (UTC) </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::Again, why would he order him to bring a rogue civillian to him? And you still haven't explained why he was called "brother". Al Mualim refers to him as "one of our own" and says he betrayed the Brotherhood. Furthermore, the use of the word "treason" is a clear indication he was a member of the Brotherhood. A stranger can betray you, as you said, but treason means that you have betrayed your own organization or country. That is why the punishment for treason is death, because you willingly betrayed YOUR OWN KIND. Masun was clearly one of the lowest ranking members of the order. If anything, he was an Assassin Herald. You cannot commit treason unless you are a part of the group you betrayed. Treason and betrayal are not exactly synonyms. Treason is, rather, a type of betrayal. Betrayal means the breaking or violation of the trust of an individual or group. Treason means the betrayal of ONE'S OWN country or organization. Since Al Mualim clearly states that Masun stands accused of treason before he kills him, he implys that Masun is one of the Brotherhood ("one of our own"). All of these facts are a clear indication of Masun's membership in the Brotherhood. He may not have been a very high ranking or important member, as indicated by his garb (though that may also be because Ubisoft didn't give him a unique skin), but he is a member nonetheless. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 22:21, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::Again, why would he order him to bring a rogue civillian to him? And you still haven't explained why he was called "brother". Al Mualim refers to him as "one of our own" and says he betrayed the Brotherhood. Furthermore, the use of the word "treason" is a clear indication he was a member of the Brotherhood. A stranger can betray you, as you said, but treason means that you have betrayed your own organization or country. That is why the punishment for treason is death, because you willingly betrayed YOUR OWN KIND. Masun was clearly one of the lowest ranking members of the order. If anything, he was an Assassin Herald. You cannot commit treason unless you are a part of the group you betrayed. Treason and betrayal are not exactly synonyms. Treason is, rather, a type of betrayal. Betrayal means the breaking or violation of the trust of an individual or group. Treason means the betrayal of ONE'S OWN country or organization. Since Al Mualim clearly states that Masun stands accused of treason before he kills him, he implys that Masun is one of the Brotherhood ("one of our own"). All of these facts are a clear indication of Masun's membership in the Brotherhood. He may not have been a very high ranking or important member, as indicated by his garb (though that may also be because Ubisoft didn't give him a unique skin), but he is a member nonetheless. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 22:21, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
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</table>imported>Toolenhttps://assassinscreedwiki.accesstheanimus.com/index.php?title=Talk:Masun&diff=594902&oldid=previmported>Toolen at 22:24, 12 November 20142014-11-12T22:24:28Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::It's also never stated that Cesare Borgia wasn't an Assassin, but we all know he wasn't. It's safer to assume that Masun was not an Assassin than that he was an Assassin. Also, Al Mualim '''ordered''' Altaïr to bring Masun before him. As reckless as he was, Altaïr was not the type to disobey a direct order. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 21:47, November 12, 2014 (UTC) </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::It's also never stated that Cesare Borgia wasn't an Assassin, but we all know he wasn't. It's safer to assume that Masun was not an Assassin than that he was an Assassin. Also, Al Mualim '''ordered''' Altaïr to bring Masun before him. As reckless as he was, Altaïr was not the type to disobey a direct order. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 21:47, November 12, 2014 (UTC) </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::Again, why would he order him to bring a rogue civillian to him? And you still haven't explained why he was called "brother". Al Mualim refers to him as "one of our own" and says he betrayed the Brotherhood. Furthermore, the use of the word "treason" is a clear indication he was a member of the Brotherhood. A stranger can betray you, as you said, but treason means that you have betrayed your own organization or country. That is why the punishment for treason is death, because you willingly betrayed YOUR OWN KIND. Masun was clearly one of the lowest ranking members of the order. If anything, he was an Assassin Herald. You cannot commit treason unless you are a part of the group you betrayed. Treason and betrayal are not exactly synonyms. Treason is, rather, a type of betrayal. Betrayal means the breaking or violation of the trust of an individual or group. Treason means the betrayal of ONE'S OWN country or organization. Since Al Mualim clearly states that Masun stands accused of treason before he kills him, he implys that Masun is one of the Brotherhood ("one of our own")<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">. That also explains the severity of his punishment, as execution is the traditional punishment for treason</del>. All of these facts are a clear indication of Masun's membership in the Brotherhood. He may not have been a very high ranking or important member, as indicated by his garb (though that may also be because Ubisoft didn't give him a unique skin), but he is a member nonetheless. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 22:21, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::Again, why would he order him to bring a rogue civillian to him? And you still haven't explained why he was called "brother". Al Mualim refers to him as "one of our own" and says he betrayed the Brotherhood. Furthermore, the use of the word "treason" is a clear indication he was a member of the Brotherhood. A stranger can betray you, as you said, but treason means that you have betrayed your own organization or country. That is why the punishment for treason is death, because you willingly betrayed YOUR OWN KIND. Masun was clearly one of the lowest ranking members of the order. If anything, he was an Assassin Herald. You cannot commit treason unless you are a part of the group you betrayed. Treason and betrayal are not exactly synonyms. Treason is, rather, a type of betrayal. Betrayal means the breaking or violation of the trust of an individual or group. Treason means the betrayal of ONE'S OWN country or organization. Since Al Mualim clearly states that Masun stands accused of treason before he kills him, he implys that Masun is one of the Brotherhood ("one of our own"). All of these facts are a clear indication of Masun's membership in the Brotherhood. He may not have been a very high ranking or important member, as indicated by his garb (though that may also be because Ubisoft didn't give him a unique skin), but he is a member nonetheless. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 22:21, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
</table>imported>Toolenhttps://assassinscreedwiki.accesstheanimus.com/index.php?title=Talk:Masun&diff=594901&oldid=previmported>Toolen at 22:22, 12 November 20142014-11-12T22:22:29Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::It's also never stated that Cesare Borgia wasn't an Assassin, but we all know he wasn't. It's safer to assume that Masun was not an Assassin than that he was an Assassin. Also, Al Mualim '''ordered''' Altaïr to bring Masun before him. As reckless as he was, Altaïr was not the type to disobey a direct order. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 21:47, November 12, 2014 (UTC) </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::It's also never stated that Cesare Borgia wasn't an Assassin, but we all know he wasn't. It's safer to assume that Masun was not an Assassin than that he was an Assassin. Also, Al Mualim '''ordered''' Altaïr to bring Masun before him. As reckless as he was, Altaïr was not the type to disobey a direct order. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 21:47, November 12, 2014 (UTC) </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::Again, why would he order him to bring a rogue civillian to him? And you still haven't explained why he was called "brother". Al Mualim refers to him as "one of our own" and says he betrayed the Brotherhood. Furthermore, the use of the word "treason" is a clear indication he was a member of the Brotherhood. A stranger can betray you, as you said, but treason means that you have betrayed your own organization or country. That is why the punishment for treason is death, because you willingly betrayed YOUR OWN KIND. Masun was clearly one of the lowest ranking members of the order. If anything, he was an Assassin Herald. You cannot commit treason unless you are a part of the group you betrayed. Treason and betrayal are not exactly synonyms. Treason is, rather, a type of betrayal. Betrayal means the breaking or violation of the trust of an individual or group. Treason means the betrayal of ONE'S OWN country or organization. Since Al Mualim clearly states that Masun stands accused of treason before he kills him, he implys that Masun is one of the Brotherhood ("one of our own"). That also explains the severity of his punishment, as execution is the traditional punishment for <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">traitors</del>. All of these facts are a clear indication of Masun's membership in the Brotherhood. He may not have been a very high ranking or important member, as indicated by his garb (though that may also be because Ubisoft didn't give him a unique skin), but he is a member nonetheless. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 22:21, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::Again, why would he order him to bring a rogue civillian to him? And you still haven't explained why he was called "brother". Al Mualim refers to him as "one of our own" and says he betrayed the Brotherhood. Furthermore, the use of the word "treason" is a clear indication he was a member of the Brotherhood. A stranger can betray you, as you said, but treason means that you have betrayed your own organization or country. That is why the punishment for treason is death, because you willingly betrayed YOUR OWN KIND. Masun was clearly one of the lowest ranking members of the order. If anything, he was an Assassin Herald. You cannot commit treason unless you are a part of the group you betrayed. Treason and betrayal are not exactly synonyms. Treason is, rather, a type of betrayal. Betrayal means the breaking or violation of the trust of an individual or group. Treason means the betrayal of ONE'S OWN country or organization. Since Al Mualim clearly states that Masun stands accused of treason before he kills him, he implys that Masun is one of the Brotherhood ("one of our own"). That also explains the severity of his punishment, as execution is the traditional punishment for <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">treason</ins>. All of these facts are a clear indication of Masun's membership in the Brotherhood. He may not have been a very high ranking or important member, as indicated by his garb (though that may also be because Ubisoft didn't give him a unique skin), but he is a member nonetheless. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 22:21, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
</table>imported>Toolenhttps://assassinscreedwiki.accesstheanimus.com/index.php?title=Talk:Masun&diff=594900&oldid=previmported>Toolen at 22:21, 12 November 20142014-11-12T22:21:42Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::It doesn't state that he isn't an Assassin, either. Following that line of a retirement, you could say you are speculating as well. Furthermore, if he was just some guy who betrayed the orders trust, why was he brought before the Mentor? Why did they make such a big deal over it? Why would the Mentor himself be the one to decide his fate, instead of one of the other Assassins? He he were just some rogue citizen of Masyaf, Al Mualim probably wouldn't have been the one to decide his fate, and Altair would have just killed him himself. He clearly had a close connection to the Assassins, and the evidence seems to indicate he was at least a low-ranking member. The only people the Assassins call "brothers" are their fellow Assassins. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 21:42, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::It doesn't state that he isn't an Assassin, either. Following that line of a retirement, you could say you are speculating as well. Furthermore, if he was just some guy who betrayed the orders trust, why was he brought before the Mentor? Why did they make such a big deal over it? Why would the Mentor himself be the one to decide his fate, instead of one of the other Assassins? He he were just some rogue citizen of Masyaf, Al Mualim probably wouldn't have been the one to decide his fate, and Altair would have just killed him himself. He clearly had a close connection to the Assassins, and the evidence seems to indicate he was at least a low-ranking member. The only people the Assassins call "brothers" are their fellow Assassins. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 21:42, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::It's also never stated that Cesare Borgia wasn't an Assassin, but we all know he wasn't. It's safer to assume that Masun was not an Assassin than that he was an Assassin. Also, Al Mualim '''ordered''' Altaïr to bring Masun before him. As reckless as he was, Altaïr was not the type to disobey a direct order. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 21:47, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::It's also never stated that Cesare Borgia wasn't an Assassin, but we all know he wasn't. It's safer to assume that Masun was not an Assassin than that he was an Assassin. Also, Al Mualim '''ordered''' Altaïr to bring Masun before him. As reckless as he was, Altaïr was not the type to disobey a direct order. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 21:47<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, November 12, 2014 (UTC) </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::Again, why would he order him to bring a rogue civillian to him? And you still haven't explained why he was called "brother". Al Mualim refers to him as "one of our own" and says he betrayed the Brotherhood. Furthermore, the use of the word "treason" is a clear indication he was a member of the Brotherhood. A stranger can betray you, as you said, but treason means that you have betrayed your own organization or country. That is why the punishment for treason is death, because you willingly betrayed YOUR OWN KIND. Masun was clearly one of the lowest ranking members of the order. If anything, he was an Assassin Herald. You cannot commit treason unless you are a part of the group you betrayed. Treason and betrayal are not exactly synonyms. Treason is, rather, a type of betrayal. Betrayal means the breaking or violation of the trust of an individual or group. Treason means the betrayal of ONE'S OWN country or organization. Since Al Mualim clearly states that Masun stands accused of treason before he kills him, he implys that Masun is one of the Brotherhood ("one of our own"). That also explains the severity of his punishment, as execution is the traditional punishment for traitors. All of these facts are a clear indication of Masun's membership in the Brotherhood. He may not have been a very high ranking or important member, as indicated by his garb (though that may also be because Ubisoft didn't give him a unique skin), but he is a member nonetheless. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 22:21</ins>, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
</table>imported>Toolenhttps://assassinscreedwiki.accesstheanimus.com/index.php?title=Talk:Masun&diff=594899&oldid=previmported>The Crimson Eagle at 21:50, 12 November 20142014-11-12T21:50:30Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::It doesn't state that he isn't an Assassin, either. Following that line of a retirement, you could say you are speculating as well. Furthermore, if he was just some guy who betrayed the orders trust, why was he brought before the Mentor? Why did they make such a big deal over it? Why would the Mentor himself be the one to decide his fate, instead of one of the other Assassins? He he were just some rogue citizen of Masyaf, Al Mualim probably wouldn't have been the one to decide his fate, and Altair would have just killed him himself. He clearly had a close connection to the Assassins, and the evidence seems to indicate he was at least a low-ranking member. The only people the Assassins call "brothers" are their fellow Assassins. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 21:42, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::It doesn't state that he isn't an Assassin, either. Following that line of a retirement, you could say you are speculating as well. Furthermore, if he was just some guy who betrayed the orders trust, why was he brought before the Mentor? Why did they make such a big deal over it? Why would the Mentor himself be the one to decide his fate, instead of one of the other Assassins? He he were just some rogue citizen of Masyaf, Al Mualim probably wouldn't have been the one to decide his fate, and Altair would have just killed him himself. He clearly had a close connection to the Assassins, and the evidence seems to indicate he was at least a low-ranking member. The only people the Assassins call "brothers" are their fellow Assassins. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 21:42, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::It's also never stated that Cesare Borgia wasn't an Assassin, but we all know he wasn't. It's safer to assume that Masun was not an Assassin than that he was an Assassin. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 21:47, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::It's also never stated that Cesare Borgia wasn't an Assassin, but we all know he wasn't. It's safer to assume that Masun was not an Assassin than that he was an Assassin<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">. Also, Al Mualim '''ordered''' Altaïr to bring Masun before him. As reckless as he was, Altaïr was not the type to disobey a direct order</ins>. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 21:47, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
</table>imported>The Crimson Eaglehttps://assassinscreedwiki.accesstheanimus.com/index.php?title=Talk:Masun&diff=594898&oldid=previmported>The Crimson Eagle at 21:47, 12 November 20142014-11-12T21:47:42Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::You can if said organization provides protection and comfort, which the Assassins did. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 20:52, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::You can if said organization provides protection and comfort, which the Assassins did. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 20:52, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::Not really. And that still doesn't explain why he was called "brother". All the evidence provided in the game indicates that he was an Assassin. To assume otherwise just because of his clothes would be speculation. We aren't supposed to include speculation. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 21:07, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:</ins>::Not really. And that still doesn't explain why he was called "brother". All the evidence provided in the game indicates that he was an Assassin. To assume otherwise just because of his clothes would be speculation. We aren't supposed to include speculation. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 21:07, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::Explain to me how what you're saying isn't speculation. What I'm saying isn't speculation, because he's never stated to be an Assassin. Also, yes really. If a family gives you shelter even though you're not a member of that family, and you proceed to set their house on fire, that would be betrayal. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 21:26, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:</ins>:::Explain to me how what you're saying isn't speculation. What I'm saying isn't speculation, because he's never stated to be an Assassin. Also, yes really. If a family gives you shelter even though you're not a member of that family, and you proceed to set their house on fire, that would be betrayal. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 21:26, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::It doesn't state that he isn't an Assassin, either. Following that line of a retirement, you could say you are speculating as well. Furthermore, if he was just some guy who betrayed the orders trust, why was he brought before the Mentor? Why did they make such a big deal over it? Why would the Mentor himself be the one to decide his fate, instead of one of the other Assassins? He he were just some rogue citizen of Masyaf, Al Mualim probably wouldn't have been the one to decide his fate, and Altair would have just killed him himself. He clearly had a close connection to the Assassins, and the evidence seems to indicate he was at least a low-ranking member. The only people the Assassins call "brothers" are their fellow Assassins. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 21:42, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:</ins>:::It doesn't state that he isn't an Assassin, either. Following that line of a retirement, you could say you are speculating as well. Furthermore, if he was just some guy who betrayed the orders trust, why was he brought before the Mentor? Why did they make such a big deal over it? Why would the Mentor himself be the one to decide his fate, instead of one of the other Assassins? He he were just some rogue citizen of Masyaf, Al Mualim probably wouldn't have been the one to decide his fate, and Altair would have just killed him himself. He clearly had a close connection to the Assassins, and the evidence seems to indicate he was at least a low-ranking member. The only people the Assassins call "brothers" are their fellow Assassins. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 21:42, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::</ins>:::<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">It's also never stated that Cesare Borgia wasn't an Assassin, but we all know he wasn't. It's safer to assume that Masun was not an Assassin than that he was an Assassin. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 21:47, November 12, 2014 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>imported>The Crimson Eagle