Talk:Instruments of the First Will - Revision history

Soranin: Text replacement - "siniath" to "siniath"

2026-05-10T18:09:06Z

Text replacement - "siniath" to "siniath"

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:09, 10 May 2026
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	:It unlocks when you collect all sticky notes. {{User:Stormbeast/sig}} 23:49, January 28, 2014 (UTC)		:It unlocks when you collect all sticky notes. {{User:Stormbeast/sig}} 23:49, January 28, 2014 (UTC)

	Curiously enough, that's not the first instance we see the emblem. It also graces the 'doorway' symbolizing [[Clay Kaczmarek\|Clay's]] escape in ''[[The Lost Archive]]'' memory, [[The Truth (memory)\|The Truth]]. [[User:Sadelyrate\|Sadelyrate]] ([[~~w:c:assassinscreed:~~User talk:Sadelyrate\|siniath]]) 10:56, April 1, 2014 (UTC)		Curiously enough, that's not the first instance we see the emblem. It also graces the 'doorway' symbolizing [[Clay Kaczmarek\|Clay's]] escape in ''[[The Lost Archive]]'' memory, [[The Truth (memory)\|The Truth]]. [[User:Sadelyrate\|Sadelyrate]] ([[User talk:Sadelyrate\|siniath]]) 10:56, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

	:Neat. I guess we could put that in trivia? {{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 14:32, April 1, 2014 (UTC)		:Neat. I guess we could put that in trivia? {{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 14:32, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

imported>RebeccaAWB: Adding {{Talkheader}}

2019-07-02T14:28:39Z

Adding {{Talkheader}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:28, 2 July 2019
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			{{Talkheader}}
	==Image==		==Image==
	Where did the photo come from? [[User:MasterKenway\|MasterKenway]] ([[User talk:MasterKenway\|talk]]) 23:47, January 28, 2014 (UTC)		Where did the photo come from? [[User:MasterKenway\|MasterKenway]] ([[User talk:MasterKenway\|talk]]) 23:47, January 28, 2014 (UTC)
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	== Paganism ==		== Paganism ==

	As an extension from the above section, I do not know if this should be described as pagan. Where is the source for this designation? The article seems to assume that any worshiper of Isu as deities (~~&there4;~~ pagan) is an "Instrument of the First Will". We need to verify that this is actually the case. My interpretation had been that the group did not arise until Juno's "spirit" was freed, and refers specifically to the cult that wishes to resurrect her. ''The Essential Guide'' describes the cult as originating as a splinter group from within the Templar Order, which seems to confirm that the term doesn't refer to just polytheists/pagans in general, but those that wish to resurrect the Isu for them to dominate the world once more, and likely is a recent organization.		As an extension from the above section, I do not know if this should be described as pagan. Where is the source for this designation? The article seems to assume that any worshiper of Isu as deities (∴ pagan) is an "Instrument of the First Will". We need to verify that this is actually the case. My interpretation had been that the group did not arise until Juno's "spirit" was freed, and refers specifically to the cult that wishes to resurrect her. ''The Essential Guide'' describes the cult as originating as a splinter group from within the Templar Order, which seems to confirm that the term doesn't refer to just polytheists/pagans in general, but those that wish to resurrect the Isu for them to dominate the world once more, and likely is a recent organization.

	Also I do want to point out that it remains a possibility that in canon, Yahweh, the God of Abrahamic religions, was also an Isu, one that perhaps lasted the longest or whose influence persisted the longest. This is totally speculation, but the possibility that the Hebrew god was an Isu himself (esp. considering that in real-life he originated as a member of the Canaanite pantheon) might mean that it is incorrect to conflate "Instruments of the First Will" and worship of the Isu with paganism and the implication that it diminished with the rise of monotheism. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 02:54, February 13, 2017 (UTC)		Also I do want to point out that it remains a possibility that in canon, Yahweh, the God of Abrahamic religions, was also an Isu, one that perhaps lasted the longest or whose influence persisted the longest. This is totally speculation, but the possibility that the Hebrew god was an Isu himself (esp. considering that in real-life he originated as a member of the Canaanite pantheon) might mean that it is incorrect to conflate "Instruments of the First Will" and worship of the Isu with paganism and the implication that it diminished with the rise of monotheism. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 02:54, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

imported>The Wikia Editor at 21:19, 26 September 2017

2017-09-26T21:19:24Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:19, 26 September 2017
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	:Given that my attempts to change the religion parameter keep getting reverted, I'd like to properly discuss this here. Unless a source can be provided which identifies the Instruments' religion as "Isu Paganism", we should not use the term. Aside from being made up, the term also implies that the Instruments worship all Isu, instead of only Juno. There's also the fact that the term "Paganism" in general is not generally a term used by the groups it is referring to. In short, the term is inaccurate and misleading. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 14:46, September 26, 2017 (UTC)		:Given that my attempts to change the religion parameter keep getting reverted, I'd like to properly discuss this here. Unless a source can be provided which identifies the Instruments' religion as "Isu Paganism", we should not use the term. Aside from being made up, the term also implies that the Instruments worship all Isu, instead of only Juno. There's also the fact that the term "Paganism" in general is not generally a term used by the groups it is referring to. In short, the term is inaccurate and misleading. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 14:46, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
	::Paganism also heavily suggests that all polytheists in general were Instruments of the First Will which would be sorely incorrect. ''The Essential Guide'' even states that the Instruments were an offshoot or splinter group of the Templars who decided that their New World Order works best under Juno. However, people keep trying to tell me that the authoritative source that paganism and the Instruments are one and the same is the WW1 segment in ''Syndicate'' which I still have not played. Perhaps you can check up on that. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 17:03, September 26, 2017 (UTC)		::Paganism also heavily suggests that all polytheists in general were Instruments of the First Will which would be sorely incorrect. ''The Essential Guide'' even states that the Instruments were an offshoot or splinter group of the Templars who decided that their New World Order works best under Juno. However, people keep trying to tell me that the authoritative source that paganism and the Instruments are one and the same is the WW1 segment in ''Syndicate'' which I still have not played. Perhaps you can check up on that. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 17:03, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
	:::As far as I'm aware, the term "Paganism" is never used in ''Syndicate''~~{{'}}s WW1 segment~~, neither in dialogue, documents or database entries. The Followers of Romulus are called a pagan cult in their database entry, but the Instruments are never called such. If sources such as the ''The Essential Guide'' don't even call them such, then I think it's safe to just leave their religion parameter as "Worship of Juno" until further notice. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 23:18, September 26, 2017 (UTC)		:::As far as I'm aware, the term "Paganism" is never used in the WW1 segment in ''Syndicate'', neither in dialogue, documents or database entries. The Followers of Romulus are called a pagan cult in their database entry, but the Instruments are never called such. If sources such as the ''The Essential Guide'' don't even call them such, then I think it's safe to just leave their religion parameter as "Worship of Juno" until further notice. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 23:18, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

imported>The Wikia Editor at 21:18, 26 September 2017

2017-09-26T21:18:30Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:18, 26 September 2017
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	:Given that my attempts to change the religion parameter keep getting reverted, I'd like to properly discuss this here. Unless a source can be provided which identifies the Instruments' religion as "Isu Paganism", we should not use the term. Aside from being made up, the term also implies that the Instruments worship all Isu, instead of only Juno. There's also the fact that the term "Paganism" in general is not generally a term used by the groups it is referring to. In short, the term is inaccurate and misleading. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 14:46, September 26, 2017 (UTC)		:Given that my attempts to change the religion parameter keep getting reverted, I'd like to properly discuss this here. Unless a source can be provided which identifies the Instruments' religion as "Isu Paganism", we should not use the term. Aside from being made up, the term also implies that the Instruments worship all Isu, instead of only Juno. There's also the fact that the term "Paganism" in general is not generally a term used by the groups it is referring to. In short, the term is inaccurate and misleading. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 14:46, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
	::Paganism also heavily suggests that all polytheists in general were Instruments of the First Will which would be sorely incorrect. ''The Essential Guide'' even states that the Instruments were an offshoot or splinter group of the Templars who decided that their New World Order works best under Juno. However, people keep trying to tell me that the authoritative source that paganism and the Instruments are one and the same is the WW1 segment in ''Syndicate'' which I still have not played. Perhaps you can check up on that. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 17:03, September 26, 2017 (UTC)		::Paganism also heavily suggests that all polytheists in general were Instruments of the First Will which would be sorely incorrect. ''The Essential Guide'' even states that the Instruments were an offshoot or splinter group of the Templars who decided that their New World Order works best under Juno. However, people keep trying to tell me that the authoritative source that paganism and the Instruments are one and the same is the WW1 segment in ''Syndicate'' which I still have not played. Perhaps you can check up on that. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 17:03, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
			:::As far as I'm aware, the term "Paganism" is never used in ''Syndicate''{{'}}s WW1 segment, neither in dialogue, documents or database entries. The Followers of Romulus are called a pagan cult in their database entry, but the Instruments are never called such. If sources such as the ''The Essential Guide'' don't even call them such, then I think it's safe to just leave their religion parameter as "Worship of Juno" until further notice. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 23:18, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Paganism */

2017-09-26T17:03:30Z

Paganism

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:03, 26 September 2017
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	Also I do want to point out that it remains a possibility that in canon, Yahweh, the God of Abrahamic religions, was also an Isu, one that perhaps lasted the longest or whose influence persisted the longest. This is totally speculation, but the possibility that the Hebrew god was an Isu himself (esp. considering that in real-life he originated as a member of the Canaanite pantheon) might mean that it is incorrect to conflate "Instruments of the First Will" and worship of the Isu with paganism and the implication that it diminished with the rise of monotheism. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 02:54, February 13, 2017 (UTC)		Also I do want to point out that it remains a possibility that in canon, Yahweh, the God of Abrahamic religions, was also an Isu, one that perhaps lasted the longest or whose influence persisted the longest. This is totally speculation, but the possibility that the Hebrew god was an Isu himself (esp. considering that in real-life he originated as a member of the Canaanite pantheon) might mean that it is incorrect to conflate "Instruments of the First Will" and worship of the Isu with paganism and the implication that it diminished with the rise of monotheism. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 02:54, February 13, 2017 (UTC)
	:Given that my attempts to change the religion parameter keep getting reverted, I'd like to properly discuss this here. Unless a source can be provided which identifies the Instruments' religion as "Isu Paganism", we should not use the term. Aside from being made up, the term also implies that the Instruments worship all Isu, instead of only Juno. There's also the fact that the term "Paganism" in general is not generally a term used by the groups it is referring to. In short, the term is inaccurate and misleading. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 14:46, September 26, 2017 (UTC)		:Given that my attempts to change the religion parameter keep getting reverted, I'd like to properly discuss this here. Unless a source can be provided which identifies the Instruments' religion as "Isu Paganism", we should not use the term. Aside from being made up, the term also implies that the Instruments worship all Isu, instead of only Juno. There's also the fact that the term "Paganism" in general is not generally a term used by the groups it is referring to. In short, the term is inaccurate and misleading. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 14:46, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
			::Paganism also heavily suggests that all polytheists in general were Instruments of the First Will which would be sorely incorrect. ''The Essential Guide'' even states that the Instruments were an offshoot or splinter group of the Templars who decided that their New World Order works best under Juno. However, people keep trying to tell me that the authoritative source that paganism and the Instruments are one and the same is the WW1 segment in ''Syndicate'' which I still have not played. Perhaps you can check up on that. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 17:03, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

imported>The Wikia Editor at 12:46, 26 September 2017

2017-09-26T12:46:07Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:46, 26 September 2017
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	== Paganism ==		== Paganism ==

	As an extension from the above section, I do not know if this should be described as pagan. Where is the source for this designation? The article seems to assume that any worshiper of Isu as deities (&there4; pagan) is an "Instrument of the First Will". We need to verify that this is actually the case. My interpretation had been that the group did not arise until Juno's "spirit" was freed, and refers specifically to the cult that wishes to resurrect her. ''The Essential Guide'' describes the cult as originating as a splinter group from within the Templar Order, which seems to confirm that the term doesn't refer to just polytheists/pagans in general, but those that wish to resurrect the Isu for them to dominate the world once more, and likely is a recent organization.		As an extension from the above section, I do not know if this should be described as pagan. Where is the source for this designation? The article seems to assume that any worshiper of Isu as deities (&there4; pagan) is an "Instrument of the First Will". We need to verify that this is actually the case. My interpretation had been that the group did not arise until Juno's "spirit" was freed, and refers specifically to the cult that wishes to resurrect her. ''The Essential Guide'' describes the cult as originating as a splinter group from within the Templar Order, which seems to confirm that the term doesn't refer to just polytheists/pagans in general, but those that wish to resurrect the Isu for them to dominate the world once more, and likely is a recent organization.

	Also I do want to point out that it remains a possibility that in canon, Yahweh, the God of Abrahamic religions, was also an Isu, one that perhaps lasted the longest or whose influence persisted the longest. This is totally speculation, but the possibility that the Hebrew god was an Isu himself (esp. considering that in real-life he originated as a member of the Canaanite pantheon) might mean that it is incorrect to conflate "Instruments of the First Will" and worship of the Isu with paganism and the implication that it diminished with the rise of monotheism. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 02:54, February 13, 2017 (UTC)		Also I do want to point out that it remains a possibility that in canon, Yahweh, the God of Abrahamic religions, was also an Isu, one that perhaps lasted the longest or whose influence persisted the longest. This is totally speculation, but the possibility that the Hebrew god was an Isu himself (esp. considering that in real-life he originated as a member of the Canaanite pantheon) might mean that it is incorrect to conflate "Instruments of the First Will" and worship of the Isu with paganism and the implication that it diminished with the rise of monotheism. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 02:54, February 13, 2017 (UTC)
			:Given that my attempts to change the religion parameter keep getting reverted, I'd like to properly discuss this here. Unless a source can be provided which identifies the Instruments' religion as "Isu Paganism", we should not use the term. Aside from being made up, the term also implies that the Instruments worship all Isu, instead of only Juno. There's also the fact that the term "Paganism" in general is not generally a term used by the groups it is referring to. In short, the term is inaccurate and misleading. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 14:46, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Paganism */ new section

2017-02-13T02:54:18Z

Paganism: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:54, 13 February 2017
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	:It makes sense, the Instruments of the First Will basically want the same thing as the Templars, it's just that the Templars want to rule over humanity themselves whereas the Instruments of the First Will want it to be Juno. However, it's pretty clear that they're very much independent. Not all of their members are Templars (John Standish, for example, wasn't one), and their end goals obviously differ. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 13:04, February 10, 2017 (UTC)		:It makes sense, the Instruments of the First Will basically want the same thing as the Templars, it's just that the Templars want to rule over humanity themselves whereas the Instruments of the First Will want it to be Juno. However, it's pretty clear that they're very much independent. Not all of their members are Templars (John Standish, for example, wasn't one), and their end goals obviously differ. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 13:04, February 10, 2017 (UTC)
	::To be exact, the book describes them as a "secret and contemporary splinter group within the Templar Order". It's clear that they're independent, and it seems that they originated from within the Templar Order itself. We do have them categorized as a Templar-affiliated group, but I don't know about calling them pagan. I also don't know if it should still be categorized as an Assassin-affiliated group. Did the latter stem from John Standish solely? I think he was never truly an Assassin, just Juno's mole inside of their organization exploiting them for his own plans. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 02:39, February 13, 2017 (UTC)		::To be exact, the book describes them as a "secret and contemporary splinter group within the Templar Order". It's clear that they're independent, and it seems that they originated from within the Templar Order itself. We do have them categorized as a Templar-affiliated group, but I don't know about calling them pagan. I also don't know if it should still be categorized as an Assassin-affiliated group. Did the latter stem from John Standish solely? I think he was never truly an Assassin, just Juno's mole inside of their organization exploiting them for his own plans. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 02:39, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

			== Paganism ==

			As an extension from the above section, I do not know if this should be described as pagan. Where is the source for this designation? The article seems to assume that any worshiper of Isu as deities (&there4; pagan) is an "Instrument of the First Will". We need to verify that this is actually the case. My interpretation had been that the group did not arise until Juno's "spirit" was freed, and refers specifically to the cult that wishes to resurrect her. ''The Essential Guide'' describes the cult as originating as a splinter group from within the Templar Order, which seems to confirm that the term doesn't refer to just polytheists/pagans in general, but those that wish to resurrect the Isu for them to dominate the world once more, and likely is a recent organization.

			Also I do want to point out that it remains a possibility that in canon, Yahweh, the God of Abrahamic religions, was also an Isu, one that perhaps lasted the longest or whose influence persisted the longest. This is totally speculation, but the possibility that the Hebrew god was an Isu himself (esp. considering that in real-life he originated as a member of the Canaanite pantheon) might mean that it is incorrect to conflate "Instruments of the First Will" and worship of the Isu with paganism and the implication that it diminished with the rise of monotheism. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 02:54, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Templar group */

2017-02-13T02:39:58Z

Templar group

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:39, 13 February 2017
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	:It makes sense, the Instruments of the First Will basically want the same thing as the Templars, it's just that the Templars want to rule over humanity themselves whereas the Instruments of the First Will want it to be Juno. However, it's pretty clear that they're very much independent. Not all of their members are Templars (John Standish, for example, wasn't one), and their end goals obviously differ. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 13:04, February 10, 2017 (UTC)		:It makes sense, the Instruments of the First Will basically want the same thing as the Templars, it's just that the Templars want to rule over humanity themselves whereas the Instruments of the First Will want it to be Juno. However, it's pretty clear that they're very much independent. Not all of their members are Templars (John Standish, for example, wasn't one), and their end goals obviously differ. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 13:04, February 10, 2017 (UTC)
			::To be exact, the book describes them as a "secret and contemporary splinter group within the Templar Order". It's clear that they're independent, and it seems that they originated from within the Templar Order itself. We do have them categorized as a Templar-affiliated group, but I don't know about calling them pagan. I also don't know if it should still be categorized as an Assassin-affiliated group. Did the latter stem from John Standish solely? I think he was never truly an Assassin, just Juno's mole inside of their organization exploiting them for his own plans. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 02:39, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

imported>The Wikia Editor at 12:04, 10 February 2017

2017-02-10T12:04:47Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:04, 10 February 2017
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	So according to ''The Essential Guide'', the Instruments of the First Will is actually a faction within the Templar Order itself. In fact, by its description, it might even be possible that all those in Abstergo responsible for the Phoenix Project are part of the Instrument of the First Will which is not what I had originally thought. I thought this was a group independent of the Templars and Asssassins. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 06:37, February 10, 2017 (UTC)		So according to ''The Essential Guide'', the Instruments of the First Will is actually a faction within the Templar Order itself. In fact, by its description, it might even be possible that all those in Abstergo responsible for the Phoenix Project are part of the Instrument of the First Will which is not what I had originally thought. I thought this was a group independent of the Templars and Asssassins. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 06:37, February 10, 2017 (UTC)

			:It makes sense, the Instruments of the First Will basically want the same thing as the Templars, it's just that the Templars want to rule over humanity themselves whereas the Instruments of the First Will want it to be Juno. However, it's pretty clear that they're very much independent. Not all of their members are Templars (John Standish, for example, wasn't one), and their end goals obviously differ. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 13:04, February 10, 2017 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Templar group */ new section

2017-02-10T06:37:01Z

Templar group: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:37, 10 February 2017
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	--FossilLord 06:18, December 4, 2014 (UTC)		--FossilLord 06:18, December 4, 2014 (UTC)

			== Templar group ==

			So according to ''The Essential Guide'', the Instruments of the First Will is actually a faction within the Templar Order itself. In fact, by its description, it might even be possible that all those in Abstergo responsible for the Phoenix Project are part of the Instrument of the First Will which is not what I had originally thought. I thought this was a group independent of the Templars and Asssassins. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 06:37, February 10, 2017 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:19, 26 September 2017
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	:Given that my attempts to change the religion parameter keep getting reverted, I'd like to properly discuss this here. Unless a source can be provided which identifies the Instruments' religion as "Isu Paganism", we should not use the term. Aside from being made up, the term also implies that the Instruments worship all Isu, instead of only Juno. There's also the fact that the term "Paganism" in general is not generally a term used by the groups it is referring to. In short, the term is inaccurate and misleading. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 14:46, September 26, 2017 (UTC)		:Given that my attempts to change the religion parameter keep getting reverted, I'd like to properly discuss this here. Unless a source can be provided which identifies the Instruments' religion as "Isu Paganism", we should not use the term. Aside from being made up, the term also implies that the Instruments worship all Isu, instead of only Juno. There's also the fact that the term "Paganism" in general is not generally a term used by the groups it is referring to. In short, the term is inaccurate and misleading. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 14:46, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
	::Paganism also heavily suggests that all polytheists in general were Instruments of the First Will which would be sorely incorrect. ''The Essential Guide'' even states that the Instruments were an offshoot or splinter group of the Templars who decided that their New World Order works best under Juno. However, people keep trying to tell me that the authoritative source that paganism and the Instruments are one and the same is the WW1 segment in ''Syndicate'' which I still have not played. Perhaps you can check up on that. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 17:03, September 26, 2017 (UTC)		::Paganism also heavily suggests that all polytheists in general were Instruments of the First Will which would be sorely incorrect. ''The Essential Guide'' even states that the Instruments were an offshoot or splinter group of the Templars who decided that their New World Order works best under Juno. However, people keep trying to tell me that the authoritative source that paganism and the Instruments are one and the same is the WW1 segment in ''Syndicate'' which I still have not played. Perhaps you can check up on that. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 17:03, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
	:::As far as I'm aware, the term "Paganism" is never used in ''Syndicate''~~{{'}}s WW1 segment~~, neither in dialogue, documents or database entries. The Followers of Romulus are called a pagan cult in their database entry, but the Instruments are never called such. If sources such as the ''The Essential Guide'' don't even call them such, then I think it's safe to just leave their religion parameter as "Worship of Juno" until further notice. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 23:18, September 26, 2017 (UTC)		:::As far as I'm aware, the term "Paganism" is never used in the WW1 segment in ''Syndicate'', neither in dialogue, documents or database entries. The Followers of Romulus are called a pagan cult in their database entry, but the Instruments are never called such. If sources such as the ''The Essential Guide'' don't even call them such, then I think it's safe to just leave their religion parameter as "Worship of Juno" until further notice. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 23:18, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:18, 26 September 2017
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	:Given that my attempts to change the religion parameter keep getting reverted, I'd like to properly discuss this here. Unless a source can be provided which identifies the Instruments' religion as "Isu Paganism", we should not use the term. Aside from being made up, the term also implies that the Instruments worship all Isu, instead of only Juno. There's also the fact that the term "Paganism" in general is not generally a term used by the groups it is referring to. In short, the term is inaccurate and misleading. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 14:46, September 26, 2017 (UTC)		:Given that my attempts to change the religion parameter keep getting reverted, I'd like to properly discuss this here. Unless a source can be provided which identifies the Instruments' religion as "Isu Paganism", we should not use the term. Aside from being made up, the term also implies that the Instruments worship all Isu, instead of only Juno. There's also the fact that the term "Paganism" in general is not generally a term used by the groups it is referring to. In short, the term is inaccurate and misleading. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 14:46, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
	::Paganism also heavily suggests that all polytheists in general were Instruments of the First Will which would be sorely incorrect. ''The Essential Guide'' even states that the Instruments were an offshoot or splinter group of the Templars who decided that their New World Order works best under Juno. However, people keep trying to tell me that the authoritative source that paganism and the Instruments are one and the same is the WW1 segment in ''Syndicate'' which I still have not played. Perhaps you can check up on that. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 17:03, September 26, 2017 (UTC)		::Paganism also heavily suggests that all polytheists in general were Instruments of the First Will which would be sorely incorrect. ''The Essential Guide'' even states that the Instruments were an offshoot or splinter group of the Templars who decided that their New World Order works best under Juno. However, people keep trying to tell me that the authoritative source that paganism and the Instruments are one and the same is the WW1 segment in ''Syndicate'' which I still have not played. Perhaps you can check up on that. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 17:03, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
			:::As far as I'm aware, the term "Paganism" is never used in ''Syndicate''{{'}}s WW1 segment, neither in dialogue, documents or database entries. The Followers of Romulus are called a pagan cult in their database entry, but the Instruments are never called such. If sources such as the ''The Essential Guide'' don't even call them such, then I think it's safe to just leave their religion parameter as "Worship of Juno" until further notice. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 23:18, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:03, 26 September 2017
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	Also I do want to point out that it remains a possibility that in canon, Yahweh, the God of Abrahamic religions, was also an Isu, one that perhaps lasted the longest or whose influence persisted the longest. This is totally speculation, but the possibility that the Hebrew god was an Isu himself (esp. considering that in real-life he originated as a member of the Canaanite pantheon) might mean that it is incorrect to conflate "Instruments of the First Will" and worship of the Isu with paganism and the implication that it diminished with the rise of monotheism. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 02:54, February 13, 2017 (UTC)		Also I do want to point out that it remains a possibility that in canon, Yahweh, the God of Abrahamic religions, was also an Isu, one that perhaps lasted the longest or whose influence persisted the longest. This is totally speculation, but the possibility that the Hebrew god was an Isu himself (esp. considering that in real-life he originated as a member of the Canaanite pantheon) might mean that it is incorrect to conflate "Instruments of the First Will" and worship of the Isu with paganism and the implication that it diminished with the rise of monotheism. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 02:54, February 13, 2017 (UTC)
	:Given that my attempts to change the religion parameter keep getting reverted, I'd like to properly discuss this here. Unless a source can be provided which identifies the Instruments' religion as "Isu Paganism", we should not use the term. Aside from being made up, the term also implies that the Instruments worship all Isu, instead of only Juno. There's also the fact that the term "Paganism" in general is not generally a term used by the groups it is referring to. In short, the term is inaccurate and misleading. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 14:46, September 26, 2017 (UTC)		:Given that my attempts to change the religion parameter keep getting reverted, I'd like to properly discuss this here. Unless a source can be provided which identifies the Instruments' religion as "Isu Paganism", we should not use the term. Aside from being made up, the term also implies that the Instruments worship all Isu, instead of only Juno. There's also the fact that the term "Paganism" in general is not generally a term used by the groups it is referring to. In short, the term is inaccurate and misleading. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 14:46, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
			::Paganism also heavily suggests that all polytheists in general were Instruments of the First Will which would be sorely incorrect. ''The Essential Guide'' even states that the Instruments were an offshoot or splinter group of the Templars who decided that their New World Order works best under Juno. However, people keep trying to tell me that the authoritative source that paganism and the Instruments are one and the same is the WW1 segment in ''Syndicate'' which I still have not played. Perhaps you can check up on that. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 17:03, September 26, 2017 (UTC)