Talk:Imprisoned - Revision history

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Anachronism of "Belgian" */

2024-06-19T22:20:30Z

Anachronism of "Belgian"

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:20, 20 June 2024
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	:::So it's still an anachronism by technicality of linguistic quirks a few months later? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)		:::So it's still an anachronism by technicality of linguistic quirks a few months later? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
	::::Yeah I think the fact they used Belgian instead of Belgic would make it anachronistic but one could always argue a quirk of the animus translation. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 04:17, 1 June 2024 (UTC)		::::Yeah I think the fact they used Belgian instead of Belgic would make it anachronistic but one could always argue a quirk of the animus translation. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 04:17, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
			:::::I think keeping the note about the anachronism is useful, but it definitely needs a citation and actually preferably not just from Wikipedia this time given how technical this is. Since you are the one to bring this up, [[User:Písač\|Písač]], you might be the most qualified to write on this and to source the info. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

imported>Lacrossedeamon: /* Anachronism of "Belgian" */

2024-06-01T04:17:42Z

Anachronism of "Belgian"

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:17, 1 June 2024
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	::The word Belgica was used in Latin for the region at least until the 1600s. Now was Bellec using a rather obscure declension of term for the region from an increasingly obsolete language? Probably not, especially since "Belgic" would have been a better translation if so. Therefore, I think the note about the anachronism stands. Additionally I will say that I think the comparison to the trailer is valid but feel the bit about the condition of the prison works better on the Bastille page. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 06:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)		::The word Belgica was used in Latin for the region at least until the 1600s. Now was Bellec using a rather obscure declension of term for the region from an increasingly obsolete language? Probably not, especially since "Belgic" would have been a better translation if so. Therefore, I think the note about the anachronism stands. Additionally I will say that I think the comparison to the trailer is valid but feel the bit about the condition of the prison works better on the Bastille page. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 06:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
	:::So it's still an anachronism by technicality of linguistic quirks a few months later? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)		:::So it's still an anachronism by technicality of linguistic quirks a few months later? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
			::::Yeah I think the fact they used Belgian instead of Belgic would make it anachronistic but one could always argue a quirk of the animus translation. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 04:17, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

imported>Darman36: /* Anachronism of "Belgian" */

2024-06-01T02:40:32Z

Anachronism of "Belgian"

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:40, 1 June 2024
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	You can find that the Bastille was a nice prison (I hope this is how it is described in English) in any text or media about the storming. [[User:Písač\|Písač]] ([[User talk:Písač\|talk]]) 15:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)		You can find that the Bastille was a nice prison (I hope this is how it is described in English) in any text or media about the storming. [[User:Písač\|Písač]] ([[User talk:Písač\|talk]]) 15:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
	:Oops, I read the dates wrong ~~both~~ here and on Wikipedia. Re-noted it as an anachronism. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 04:20, 31 May 2024 (UTC)		:Oops, read the dates wrong here and on Wikipedia. Re-noted as an anachronism. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 04:20, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
	::Technically according to wikipedia when founding the USB they formed the adjectival form from just the noun following Latin conventions.		::Technically according to wikipedia when founding the USB they formed the adjectival form from just the noun following Latin conventions.
	<blockquote>The Latin name was revived in 1790 by the short-lived United Belgian States which was created after a revolution against Austrian rule took place in 1789. Since no adjective equivalent to "Belgian" existed at the time, the French noun "Belgique" (or "Belgium") was adopted as both noun and adjective; a phenomenon borrowed from Latin which was still commonly used during the period. From the sixteenth century, the Low Countries" or "Netherlands", were referred to as 'Belgica' in Latin, as was the Dutch Republic.</blockquote>		:<blockquote>The Latin name was revived in 1790 by the short-lived United Belgian States which was created after a revolution against Austrian rule took place in 1789. Since no adjective equivalent to "Belgian" existed at the time, the French noun "Belgique" (or "Belgium") was adopted as both noun and adjective; a phenomenon borrowed from Latin which was still commonly used during the period. From the sixteenth century, the Low Countries" or "Netherlands", were referred to as 'Belgica' in Latin, as was the Dutch Republic.</blockquote>
	::The word Belgica was used in Latin for the region at least until the 1600s. Now was Bellec using a rather obscure declension of term for the region from an increasingly obsolete language? Probably not, especially since "Belgic" would have been a better translation if so. Therefore, I think the note about the anachronism stands. Additionally I will say that I think the comparison to the trailer is valid but feel the bit about the condition of the prison works better on the Bastille page. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 06:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)		::The word Belgica was used in Latin for the region at least until the 1600s. Now was Bellec using a rather obscure declension of term for the region from an increasingly obsolete language? Probably not, especially since "Belgic" would have been a better translation if so. Therefore, I think the note about the anachronism stands. Additionally I will say that I think the comparison to the trailer is valid but feel the bit about the condition of the prison works better on the Bastille page. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 06:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
			:::So it's still an anachronism by technicality of linguistic quirks a few months later? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

imported>Lacrossedeamon: /* Anachronism of "Belgian" */

2024-05-31T06:30:54Z

Anachronism of "Belgian"

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:30, 31 May 2024
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	::Technically according to wikipedia when founding the USB they formed the adjectival form from just the noun following Latin conventions.		::Technically according to wikipedia when founding the USB they formed the adjectival form from just the noun following Latin conventions.
	<blockquote>The Latin name was revived in 1790 by the short-lived United Belgian States which was created after a revolution against Austrian rule took place in 1789. Since no adjective equivalent to "Belgian" existed at the time, the French noun "Belgique" (or "Belgium") was adopted as both noun and adjective; a phenomenon borrowed from Latin which was still commonly used during the period. From the sixteenth century, the Low Countries" or "Netherlands", were referred to as 'Belgica' in Latin, as was the Dutch Republic.</blockquote>		<blockquote>The Latin name was revived in 1790 by the short-lived United Belgian States which was created after a revolution against Austrian rule took place in 1789. Since no adjective equivalent to "Belgian" existed at the time, the French noun "Belgique" (or "Belgium") was adopted as both noun and adjective; a phenomenon borrowed from Latin which was still commonly used during the period. From the sixteenth century, the Low Countries" or "Netherlands", were referred to as 'Belgica' in Latin, as was the Dutch Republic.</blockquote>
	::The word Belgica was used in Latin for the region at least until the 1600s. Now was Bellec using a rather obscure declension of term for the region from an increasingly obsolete language? Probably not. So I think the note about the anachronism stands. Additionally I will say that I think the comparison to the trailer is valid but feel the bit about the condition of the prison works better on the Bastille page. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 06:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)		::The word Belgica was used in Latin for the region at least until the 1600s. Now was Bellec using a rather obscure declension of term for the region from an increasingly obsolete language? Probably not, especially since "Belgic" would have been a better translation if so. Therefore, I think the note about the anachronism stands. Additionally I will say that I think the comparison to the trailer is valid but feel the bit about the condition of the prison works better on the Bastille page. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 06:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

imported>Lacrossedeamon: /* Anachronism of "Belgian" */

2024-05-31T06:26:35Z

Anachronism of "Belgian"

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:26, 31 May 2024
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	You can find that the Bastille was a nice prison (I hope this is how it is described in English) in any text or media about the storming. [[User:Písač\|Písač]] ([[User talk:Písač\|talk]]) 15:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)		You can find that the Bastille was a nice prison (I hope this is how it is described in English) in any text or media about the storming. [[User:Písač\|Písač]] ([[User talk:Písač\|talk]]) 15:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
	:Oops, I read the dates wrong both here and on Wikipedia. Re-noted it as an anachronism. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 04:20, 31 May 2024 (UTC)		:Oops, I read the dates wrong both here and on Wikipedia. Re-noted it as an anachronism. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 04:20, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
			::Technically according to wikipedia when founding the USB they formed the adjectival form from just the noun following Latin conventions.
			<blockquote>The Latin name was revived in 1790 by the short-lived United Belgian States which was created after a revolution against Austrian rule took place in 1789. Since no adjective equivalent to "Belgian" existed at the time, the French noun "Belgique" (or "Belgium") was adopted as both noun and adjective; a phenomenon borrowed from Latin which was still commonly used during the period. From the sixteenth century, the Low Countries" or "Netherlands", were referred to as 'Belgica' in Latin, as was the Dutch Republic.</blockquote>
			::The word Belgica was used in Latin for the region at least until the 1600s. Now was Bellec using a rather obscure declension of term for the region from an increasingly obsolete language? Probably not. So I think the note about the anachronism stands. Additionally I will say that I think the comparison to the trailer is valid but feel the bit about the condition of the prison works better on the Bastille page. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 06:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

imported>Darman36: /* Anachronism of "Belgian" */

2024-05-31T04:20:10Z

Anachronism of "Belgian"

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:20, 31 May 2024
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	{{Talkheader}}		{{Talkheader}}
	==Anachronism of "Belgian"==		==Anachronism of "Belgian"==
	The memory happens in July 1789, the Brabant Revolution began in October that year, the United States of Belgium existed for one year, from January 1790 to December 1790. Do you think that people would notice this new word for them in such a short time and use it as a demonym? They would say what they were used to, before and after. ''Belgica'' was used as the Latin translation of the ''Netherlands''. Do you think that Bellec speaks in Latin at that moment? It does not make sense, it is anachronistic whatever perspective you take. It is a mistake in the script. I wonder what demonyms were used before 1830 but it is not the easiest thing to find on the internet. My guess are various names ~~reffering~~ to Belgian regions.		The memory happens in July 1789, the Brabant Revolution began in October that year, the United States of Belgium existed for one year, from January 1790 to December 1790. Do you think that people would notice this new word for them in such a short time and use it as a demonym? They would say what they were used to, before and after. ''Belgica'' was used as the Latin translation of the ''Netherlands''. Do you think that Bellec speaks in Latin at that moment? It does not make sense, it is anachronistic whatever perspective you take. It is a mistake in the script. I wonder what demonyms were used before 1830 but it is not the easiest thing to find on the internet. My guess are various names referring to Belgian regions.

	You can find that the Bastille was a nice prison (I hope this is how it is described in English) in any text or media about the storming. [[User:Písač\|Písač]] ([[User talk:Písač\|talk]]) 15:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)		You can find that the Bastille was a nice prison (I hope this is how it is described in English) in any text or media about the storming. [[User:Písač\|Písač]] ([[User talk:Písač\|talk]]) 15:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
			:Oops, I read the dates wrong both here and on Wikipedia. Re-noted it as an anachronism. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 04:20, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

imported>Písač at 18:25, 30 May 2024

2024-05-30T18:25:11Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:25, 30 May 2024
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	The memory happens in July 1789, the Brabant Revolution began in October that year, the United States of Belgium existed for one year, from January 1790 to December 1790. Do you think that people would notice this new word for them in such a short time and use it as a demonym? They would say what they were used to, before and after. ''Belgica'' was used as the Latin translation of the ''Netherlands''. Do you think that Bellec speaks in Latin at that moment? It does not make sense, it is anachronistic whatever perspective you take. It is a mistake in the script. I wonder what demonyms were used before 1830 but it is not the easiest thing to find on the internet. My guess are various names reffering to Belgian regions.		The memory happens in July 1789, the Brabant Revolution began in October that year, the United States of Belgium existed for one year, from January 1790 to December 1790. Do you think that people would notice this new word for them in such a short time and use it as a demonym? They would say what they were used to, before and after. ''Belgica'' was used as the Latin translation of the ''Netherlands''. Do you think that Bellec speaks in Latin at that moment? It does not make sense, it is anachronistic whatever perspective you take. It is a mistake in the script. I wonder what demonyms were used before 1830 but it is not the easiest thing to find on the internet. My guess are various names reffering to Belgian regions.

	You can find that the Bastille was a ~~fine~~ prison (I hope this is how it is described in English) in any text or media about the storming. [[User:Písač\|Písač]] ([[User talk:Písač\|talk]]) 15:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)		You can find that the Bastille was a nice prison (I hope this is how it is described in English) in any text or media about the storming. [[User:Písač\|Písač]] ([[User talk:Písač\|talk]]) 15:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus at 16:21, 30 May 2024

2024-05-30T16:21:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:21, 30 May 2024
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			{{Talkheader}}
			==Anachronism of "Belgian"==
	The memory happens in July 1789, the Brabant Revolution began in October that year, the United States of Belgium existed for one year, from January 1790 to December 1790. Do you think that people would notice this new word for them in such a short time and use it as a demonym? They would say what they were used to, before and after. ''Belgica'' was used as the Latin translation of the ''Netherlands''. Do you think that Bellec speaks in Latin at that moment? It does not make sense, it is anachronistic whatever perspective you take. It is a mistake in the script. I wonder what demonyms were used before 1830 but it is not the easiest thing to find on the internet. My guess are various names reffering to Belgian regions.		The memory happens in July 1789, the Brabant Revolution began in October that year, the United States of Belgium existed for one year, from January 1790 to December 1790. Do you think that people would notice this new word for them in such a short time and use it as a demonym? They would say what they were used to, before and after. ''Belgica'' was used as the Latin translation of the ''Netherlands''. Do you think that Bellec speaks in Latin at that moment? It does not make sense, it is anachronistic whatever perspective you take. It is a mistake in the script. I wonder what demonyms were used before 1830 but it is not the easiest thing to find on the internet. My guess are various names reffering to Belgian regions.

	You can find that the Bastille was a fine prison (I hope this is how it is described in English) in any text or media about the storming. [[User:Písač\|Písač]] ([[User talk:Písač\|talk]]) 15:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)		You can find that the Bastille was a fine prison (I hope this is how it is described in English) in any text or media about the storming. [[User:Písač\|Písač]] ([[User talk:Písač\|talk]]) 15:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

imported>Písač at 15:58, 30 May 2024

2024-05-30T15:58:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:58, 30 May 2024
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	The memory happens in July 1789, the Brabant Revolution began in October that year, the United States of Belgium existed for one year, from January 1790 to December 1790. Do you think that people would notice this new word for them in such a short time and use it as a demonym? They would say what they were used to, before and after. ''Belgica'' was used as the Latin translation of the ''Netherlands''. Do you think that Bellec speaks in Latin at that moment? It does not make sense, it is anachronistic whatever perspective you take. It is a mistake in the script. I wonder what demonyms were used before 1830 but it is not the easiest thing to find on the internet. My guess are various names reffering to Belgian regions.		The memory happens in July 1789, the Brabant Revolution began in October that year, the United States of Belgium existed for one year, from January 1790 to December 1790. Do you think that people would notice this new word for them in such a short time and use it as a demonym? They would say what they were used to, before and after. ''Belgica'' was used as the Latin translation of the ''Netherlands''. Do you think that Bellec speaks in Latin at that moment? It does not make sense, it is anachronistic whatever perspective you take. It is a mistake in the script. I wonder what demonyms were used before 1830 but it is not the easiest thing to find on the internet. My guess are various names reffering to Belgian regions.

	You can find that the Bastille was a fine prison (I hope this is how it is described in English) in any text or media about the storming.[[User:Písač\|Písač]] ([[User talk:Písač\|talk]]) 15:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)		You can find that the Bastille was a fine prison (I hope this is how it is described in English) in any text or media about the storming. [[User:Písač\|Písač]] ([[User talk:Písač\|talk]]) 15:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

imported>Písač: Protest

2024-05-30T15:58:07Z

Protest

Páàjì titun

The memory happens in July 1789, the Brabant Revolution began in October that year, the United States of Belgium existed for one year, from January 1790 to December 1790. Do you think that people would notice this new word for them in such a short time and use it as a demonym? They would say what they were used to, before and after. ''Belgica'' was used as the Latin translation of the ''Netherlands''. Do you think that Bellec speaks in Latin at that moment? It does not make sense, it is anachronistic whatever perspective you take. It is a mistake in the script. I wonder what demonyms were used before 1830 but it is not the easiest thing to find on the internet. My guess are various names reffering to Belgian regions.

You can find that the Bastille was a fine prison (I hope this is how it is described in English) in any text or media about the storming.[[User:Písač|Písač]] ([[User talk:Písač|talk]]) 15:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:20, 20 June 2024
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	:::So it's still an anachronism by technicality of linguistic quirks a few months later? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)		:::So it's still an anachronism by technicality of linguistic quirks a few months later? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
	::::Yeah I think the fact they used Belgian instead of Belgic would make it anachronistic but one could always argue a quirk of the animus translation. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 04:17, 1 June 2024 (UTC)		::::Yeah I think the fact they used Belgian instead of Belgic would make it anachronistic but one could always argue a quirk of the animus translation. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 04:17, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
			:::::I think keeping the note about the anachronism is useful, but it definitely needs a citation and actually preferably not just from Wikipedia this time given how technical this is. Since you are the one to bring this up, [[User:Písač\|Písač]], you might be the most qualified to write on this and to source the info. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:17, 1 June 2024
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	::The word Belgica was used in Latin for the region at least until the 1600s. Now was Bellec using a rather obscure declension of term for the region from an increasingly obsolete language? Probably not, especially since "Belgic" would have been a better translation if so. Therefore, I think the note about the anachronism stands. Additionally I will say that I think the comparison to the trailer is valid but feel the bit about the condition of the prison works better on the Bastille page. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 06:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)		::The word Belgica was used in Latin for the region at least until the 1600s. Now was Bellec using a rather obscure declension of term for the region from an increasingly obsolete language? Probably not, especially since "Belgic" would have been a better translation if so. Therefore, I think the note about the anachronism stands. Additionally I will say that I think the comparison to the trailer is valid but feel the bit about the condition of the prison works better on the Bastille page. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 06:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
	:::So it's still an anachronism by technicality of linguistic quirks a few months later? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)		:::So it's still an anachronism by technicality of linguistic quirks a few months later? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
			::::Yeah I think the fact they used Belgian instead of Belgic would make it anachronistic but one could always argue a quirk of the animus translation. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 04:17, 1 June 2024 (UTC)