Talk:Iga - Revision history

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Rename */

2024-05-17T14:17:24Z

Rename

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:17, 17 May 2024
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	::The examples from China, Greece, and the United States are not exactly the same as the provinces of Japan, but leaving out the administrative unit type from the page title is pretty constant.		::The examples from China, Greece, and the United States are not exactly the same as the provinces of Japan, but leaving out the administrative unit type from the page title is pretty constant.

	::And a final argument is that by simplifying it to "Iga", we avoid the question of whether it really should be "Iga Province" or "{{wiki\|Iga ikki\|Iga ''ikki''}}", which Wikipedia gives as the name of the shinobi state. But then I am dubious about the connotation of ''ikki'', which a quick dictionary suggests it can mean "insurgency", and I believe my sources calling the [[Tenshō Iga War]] the "Iga Rebellion" is actually from translating the name "Iga ''ikki''".		::And a final argument is that by simplifying it to "Iga", we avoid the question of whether it really should be "Iga Province" or "{{wiki\|Iga ikki\|Iga ''ikki''}}", which Wikipedia gives as the name of the shinobi state. But then I am dubious about the connotation of ''ikki'', which a quick dictionary (See: [[Wikt:一揆\|Wiktionary]] and [https://www.japandict.com/%E4%B8%80%E6%8F%86?lang=eng Japandict]) suggests it can mean "insurgency", and I believe my sources calling the [[Tenshō Iga War]] the "Iga Rebellion" is actually from translating the name "Iga ''ikki''".

	::I think conceptually, we are thinking of Iga as a region regardless of whether governments determined it was a province, an independent state, or an insurgent state, just like with Shu, we're thinking of the conceptual and cultural region, not precisely what specific administrative form it took in a specific time period. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 14:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)		::I think conceptually, we are thinking of Iga as a region regardless of whether governments determined it was a province, an independent state, or an insurgent state, just like with Shu, we're thinking of the conceptual and cultural region, not precisely what specific administrative form it took in a specific time period. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 14:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Rename */

2024-05-17T14:11:41Z

Rename

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:11, 17 May 2024
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	:Sol gives good reasoning for just Iga as opposed to Iga Province in one of his edit comments on the AC Shadows navbox. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 08:59, 17 May 2024 (UTC)		:Sol gives good reasoning for just Iga as opposed to Iga Province in one of his edit comments on the AC Shadows navbox. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 08:59, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
	::A similar situation came up with cases from ''Dynasty'' like the Julu, Changshan, and Fanyang Commanderies and the Taiyuan Prefecture where we also had articles for their cities of the same name. In my [[Talk:Julu\|discussion]] with Sora, she convinced me to merge them. While the context is not entirely the same, and we are not performing the merge in other cases like [[New York]] vs. [[New York City]], I think it should set a precedent for leaving out the name of the administrative unit type from the article title. After all, the official name of New York is "State of New York", but we don't title it that.		::A similar situation came up with cases from ''Dynasty'' like the Julu, Changshan, and Fanyang Commanderies and the Taiyuan Prefecture where we also had articles for their cities of the same name. In my [[Talk:Julu\|discussion]] with Sora, she convinced me to merge them. While the context is not entirely the same, and we are not performing the merge in other cases like [[New York]] vs. [[New York City]], I think it should set a precedent for leaving out the name of the administrative unit type from the article title. After all, the official name of New York is "State of New York", but we don't title it that.

	::I provided an additional reason to Lacrosse in my edit summary, which is that the administrative unit type for a region can change. Sometimes the change can be very minute and technical. It is better that we don't create a new, separate article every time an administrative unit's type changes. The divisions of Greece, like [[Arkadia]], is another example. Arkadia today is officially called a "regional unit". Do we then name it Arkadia Regional Unit, as is the official name in Greek? No, it is better to just simplify it down to the name of the region that has been constant across time. We also sideline the unnecessary question of whether we should use the official name in the present day or the name corresponding to the time period most focused on in the media.		::I provided an additional reason to Lacrosse in my edit summary, which is that the administrative unit type for a region can change. Sometimes the change can be very minute and technical. It is better that we don't create a new, separate article every time an administrative unit's type changes. The divisions of Greece, like [[Arkadia]], is another example. Arkadia today is officially called a "regional unit". Do we then name it Arkadia Regional Unit, as is the official name in Greek? No, it is better to just simplify it down to the name of the region that has been constant across time. We also sideline the unnecessary question of whether we should use the official name in the present day or the name corresponding to the time period most focused on in the media.

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Rename */

2024-05-17T14:11:31Z

Rename

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:11, 17 May 2024
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	::A similar situation came up with cases from ''Dynasty'' like the Julu, Changshan, and Fanyang Commanderies and the Taiyuan Prefecture where we also had articles for their cities of the same name. In my [[Talk:Julu\|discussion]] with Sora, she convinced me to merge them. While the context is not entirely the same, and we are not performing the merge in other cases like [[New York]] vs. [[New York City]], I think it should set a precedent for leaving out the name of the administrative unit type from the article title. After all, the official name of New York is "State of New York", but we don't title it that.		::A similar situation came up with cases from ''Dynasty'' like the Julu, Changshan, and Fanyang Commanderies and the Taiyuan Prefecture where we also had articles for their cities of the same name. In my [[Talk:Julu\|discussion]] with Sora, she convinced me to merge them. While the context is not entirely the same, and we are not performing the merge in other cases like [[New York]] vs. [[New York City]], I think it should set a precedent for leaving out the name of the administrative unit type from the article title. After all, the official name of New York is "State of New York", but we don't title it that.
	::I provided an additional reason to Lacrosse in my edit summary, which is that the administrative unit type for a region can change. Sometimes the change can be very minute and technical. It is better that we don't create a new, separate article every time an administrative unit's type changes. The divisions of Greece, like [[Arkadia]], is another example. Arkadia today is officially called a "regional unit". Do we then name it Arkadia Regional Unit, as is the official name in Greek? No, it is better to just simplify it down to the name of the region that has been constant across time. We also sideline the unnecessary question of whether we should use the official name in the present day or the name corresponding to the time period most focused on in the media.		::I provided an additional reason to Lacrosse in my edit summary, which is that the administrative unit type for a region can change. Sometimes the change can be very minute and technical. It is better that we don't create a new, separate article every time an administrative unit's type changes. The divisions of Greece, like [[Arkadia]], is another example. Arkadia today is officially called a "regional unit". Do we then name it Arkadia Regional Unit, as is the official name in Greek? No, it is better to just simplify it down to the name of the region that has been constant across time. We also sideline the unnecessary question of whether we should use the official name in the present day or the name corresponding to the time period most focused on in the media.

	::Another example is the case of [[Shu]]. Currently, I also have it as a stand-in for the modern province of {{wiki\|Sichuan}}, whose postal abbreviation is Shu. But the way this region has been organized has changed constantly between the Tang era and modern China, not always corresponding to one whole unit and sometimes going by different names. In fact, the whole territory was called Jiannan Circuit in the Tang dynasty, but in ''Dynasty'', the characters refer more narrowly to {{wiki\|Chengdu}} and its district as Shuzhong despite its administrative name also being Yizhou (or Yi Province) at the time. The greater region was also named Yi Province in certain time periods, like at the end of the Han dynasty just before Liu Bei established Shu as one of the Three Kingdoms. For the scope of our content about the region, it is better to just have one article on Shu for now that covers Yi Province, Jiannan Circuit, Sichuan Province, etc. across the ages.		::Another example is the case of [[Shu]]. Currently, I also have it as a stand-in for the modern province of {{wiki\|Sichuan}}, whose postal abbreviation is Shu. But the way this region has been organized has changed constantly between the Tang era and modern China, not always corresponding to one whole unit and sometimes going by different names. In fact, the whole territory was called Jiannan Circuit in the Tang dynasty, but in ''Dynasty'', the characters refer more narrowly to {{wiki\|Chengdu}} and its district as Shuzhong despite its administrative name also being Yizhou (or Yi Province) at the time. The greater region was also named Yi Province in certain time periods, like at the end of the Han dynasty just before Liu Bei established Shu as one of the Three Kingdoms. For the scope of our content about the region, it is better to just have one article on Shu for now that covers Yi Province, Jiannan Circuit, Sichuan Province, etc. across the ages.
	::The examples from China, Greece, and the United States are not exactly the same as the provinces of Japan, but leaving out the administrative unit type from the page title is pretty constant. And a final argument is that by simplifying o "Iga", we avoid the question of whether it really should be "Iga Province" or "{{wiki\|Iga ikki\|Iga ''ikki''}}", which Wikipedia gives as the name of the shinobi state. But then I am dubious about the connotation of ''ikki'', which a quick dictionary suggests it can mean "insurgency", and I believe my sources calling the [[Tenshō Iga War]] the "Iga Rebellion" is actually from translating the name "Iga ''ikki''". I think conceptually, we are thinking of Iga as a region regardless of whether governments determined it was a province, an independent state, or an insurgent state, just like with Shu, we're thinking of the conceptual and cultural region, not precisely what specific administrative form it took in a specific time period. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 14:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
			::The examples from China, Greece, and the United States are not exactly the same as the provinces of Japan, but leaving out the administrative unit type from the page title is pretty constant.

			::And a final argument is that by simplifying it to "Iga", we avoid the question of whether it really should be "Iga Province" or "{{wiki\|Iga ikki\|Iga ''ikki''}}", which Wikipedia gives as the name of the shinobi state. But then I am dubious about the connotation of ''ikki'', which a quick dictionary suggests it can mean "insurgency", and I believe my sources calling the [[Tenshō Iga War]] the "Iga Rebellion" is actually from translating the name "Iga ''ikki''".

			::I think conceptually, we are thinking of Iga as a region regardless of whether governments determined it was a province, an independent state, or an insurgent state, just like with Shu, we're thinking of the conceptual and cultural region, not precisely what specific administrative form it took in a specific time period. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 14:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Rename */

2024-05-17T14:10:35Z

Rename

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:10, 17 May 2024
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	rename to Iga Province? it does say just "Iga" on the collector's edition map... so just wait until its out? [[User:VilkaIsBack\|VilkaIsBack]] ([[User talk:VilkaIsBack\|talk]]) 08:31, 17 May 2024 (UTC)		rename to Iga Province? it does say just "Iga" on the collector's edition map... so just wait until its out? [[User:VilkaIsBack\|VilkaIsBack]] ([[User talk:VilkaIsBack\|talk]]) 08:31, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
	:Sol gives good reasoning for just Iga as opposed to Iga Province in one of his edit comments on the AC Shadows navbox. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 08:59, 17 May 2024 (UTC)		:Sol gives good reasoning for just Iga as opposed to Iga Province in one of his edit comments on the AC Shadows navbox. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 08:59, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
			::A similar situation came up with cases from ''Dynasty'' like the Julu, Changshan, and Fanyang Commanderies and the Taiyuan Prefecture where we also had articles for their cities of the same name. In my [[Talk:Julu\|discussion]] with Sora, she convinced me to merge them. While the context is not entirely the same, and we are not performing the merge in other cases like [[New York]] vs. [[New York City]], I think it should set a precedent for leaving out the name of the administrative unit type from the article title. After all, the official name of New York is "State of New York", but we don't title it that.
			::I provided an additional reason to Lacrosse in my edit summary, which is that the administrative unit type for a region can change. Sometimes the change can be very minute and technical. It is better that we don't create a new, separate article every time an administrative unit's type changes. The divisions of Greece, like [[Arkadia]], is another example. Arkadia today is officially called a "regional unit". Do we then name it Arkadia Regional Unit, as is the official name in Greek? No, it is better to just simplify it down to the name of the region that has been constant across time. We also sideline the unnecessary question of whether we should use the official name in the present day or the name corresponding to the time period most focused on in the media.
			::Another example is the case of [[Shu]]. Currently, I also have it as a stand-in for the modern province of {{wiki\|Sichuan}}, whose postal abbreviation is Shu. But the way this region has been organized has changed constantly between the Tang era and modern China, not always corresponding to one whole unit and sometimes going by different names. In fact, the whole territory was called Jiannan Circuit in the Tang dynasty, but in ''Dynasty'', the characters refer more narrowly to {{wiki\|Chengdu}} and its district as Shuzhong despite its administrative name also being Yizhou (or Yi Province) at the time. The greater region was also named Yi Province in certain time periods, like at the end of the Han dynasty just before Liu Bei established Shu as one of the Three Kingdoms. For the scope of our content about the region, it is better to just have one article on Shu for now that covers Yi Province, Jiannan Circuit, Sichuan Province, etc. across the ages.
			::The examples from China, Greece, and the United States are not exactly the same as the provinces of Japan, but leaving out the administrative unit type from the page title is pretty constant. And a final argument is that by simplifying o "Iga", we avoid the question of whether it really should be "Iga Province" or "{{wiki\|Iga ikki\|Iga ''ikki''}}", which Wikipedia gives as the name of the shinobi state. But then I am dubious about the connotation of ''ikki'', which a quick dictionary suggests it can mean "insurgency", and I believe my sources calling the [[Tenshō Iga War]] the "Iga Rebellion" is actually from translating the name "Iga ''ikki''". I think conceptually, we are thinking of Iga as a region regardless of whether governments determined it was a province, an independent state, or an insurgent state, just like with Shu, we're thinking of the conceptual and cultural region, not precisely what specific administrative form it took in a specific time period. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 14:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

imported>Lacrossedeamon: /* Rename */

2024-05-17T08:59:09Z

Rename

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:59, 17 May 2024
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	==Rename==		==Rename==
	rename to Iga Province? it does say just "Iga" on the collector's edition map... so just wait until its out? [[User:VilkaIsBack\|VilkaIsBack]] ([[User talk:VilkaIsBack\|talk]]) 08:31, 17 May 2024 (UTC)		rename to Iga Province? it does say just "Iga" on the collector's edition map... so just wait until its out? [[User:VilkaIsBack\|VilkaIsBack]] ([[User talk:VilkaIsBack\|talk]]) 08:31, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
			:Sol gives good reasoning for just Iga as opposed to Iga Province in one of his edit comments on the AC Shadows navbox. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 08:59, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

imported>VilkaIsBack: Created page with "{{Talkheader}} ==Rename== rename to Iga Province? it does say just "Iga" on the collector's edition map... so just wait until its out? ~~~~"

2024-05-17T08:31:56Z

Created page with "{{Talkheader}} ==Rename== rename to Iga Province? it does say just "Iga" on the collector's edition map... so just wait until its out? ~~~~"

Páàjì titun

{{Talkheader}}
==Rename==
rename to Iga Province? it does say just "Iga" on the collector's edition map... so just wait until its out? [[User:VilkaIsBack|VilkaIsBack]] ([[User talk:VilkaIsBack|talk]]) 08:31, 17 May 2024 (UTC)