Talk:Grand Master of the Templar Order - Revision history

imported>ACsenior: /* Original research */

2020-09-16T20:29:55Z

Original research

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	:::::I'm aware. Considering I'm going through both novels to write the reply, and since you mentioned it. The moderate views of Haytham called out by Birch is something Elise would later refer to as a ''Third Way''.--[[User:ACsenior\|ACsenior]] ([[User talk:ACsenior\|talk]]) 20:02, September 16, 2020 (UTC)		:::::I'm aware. Considering I'm going through both novels to write the reply, and since you mentioned it. The moderate views of Haytham called out by Birch is something Elise would later refer to as a ''Third Way''.--[[User:ACsenior\|ACsenior]] ([[User talk:ACsenior\|talk]]) 20:02, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

	::::::If you can find sources to back-up the use of the word ''moderate'' to describe these characters, that would be great. You should keep all replies on this talk page though so we have everything on one page; I don't know why you want to leave the rest on my talk page? [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 20:13, September 16, 2020 (UTC)		::::::If you can find sources to back-up the use of the word ''moderate'' to describe these characters, that would be great. You should keep all replies on this talk page though so we have everything on one page; I don't know why you want to leave the rest on my talk page? [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 20:13, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

			:::::::Of course, given that it requires more than a statement of being and therefor the characters are. I'll also have to source the actual distinctions between these Templars well, alright, I can leave it here. Similar to how the creation of the Black Cross have given a of new information what that defines Templars being corrupt, distinctions comes with their own characteristics that separates them.--[[User:ACsenior\|ACsenior]] ([[User talk:ACsenior\|talk]]) 20:29, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Original research */

2020-09-16T20:13:32Z

Original research

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:13, 16 September 2020
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	:::::I'm aware. Considering I'm going through both novels to write the reply, and since you mentioned it. The moderate views of Haytham called out by Birch is something Elise would later refer to as a ''Third Way''.--[[User:ACsenior\|ACsenior]] ([[User talk:ACsenior\|talk]]) 20:02, September 16, 2020 (UTC)		:::::I'm aware. Considering I'm going through both novels to write the reply, and since you mentioned it. The moderate views of Haytham called out by Birch is something Elise would later refer to as a ''Third Way''.--[[User:ACsenior\|ACsenior]] ([[User talk:ACsenior\|talk]]) 20:02, September 16, 2020 (UTC)
			::::::If you can find sources to back-up the use of the word ''moderate'' to describe these characters, that would be great. You should keep all replies on this talk page though so we have everything on one page; I don't know why you want to leave the rest on my talk page? [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 20:13, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

imported>ACsenior: /* Original research */

2020-09-16T20:02:46Z

Original research

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:02, 16 September 2020
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	::::The novel only uses the term moderate 4 times. Twice to describe Mirabeau and twice for Elise's mother. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 19:54, September 16, 2020 (UTC)		::::The novel only uses the term moderate 4 times. Twice to describe Mirabeau and twice for Elise's mother. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 19:54, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

			:::::I'm aware. Considering I'm going through both novels to write the reply, and since you mentioned it. The moderate views of Haytham called out by Birch is something Elise would later refer to as a ''Third Way''.--[[User:ACsenior\|ACsenior]] ([[User talk:ACsenior\|talk]]) 20:02, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

imported>Lacrossedeamon: /* Original research */

2020-09-16T19:54:52Z

Original research

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:54, 16 September 2020
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	:::The term is actually used in ''Forsaken'' By Reginald Birch, aside from that I'm currently writing a reply to your post that I will take to your talk page. And just a small thing, to make Elise's moderate Templar philosophy exclusive to her conflict in the French Revolution is impossible, given how much her views became influenced by Haytham's moderate views.--[[User:ACsenior\|ACsenior]] ([[User talk:ACsenior\|talk]]) 19:51, September 16, 2020 (UTC)		:::The term is actually used in ''Forsaken'' By Reginald Birch, aside from that I'm currently writing a reply to your post that I will take to your talk page. And just a small thing, to make Elise's moderate Templar philosophy exclusive to her conflict in the French Revolution is impossible, given how much her views became influenced by Haytham's moderate views.--[[User:ACsenior\|ACsenior]] ([[User talk:ACsenior\|talk]]) 19:51, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

			::::The novel only uses the term moderate 4 times. Twice to describe Mirabeau and twice for Elise's mother. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 19:54, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

imported>ACsenior: /* Original research */

2020-09-16T19:51:52Z

Original research

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:51, 16 September 2020
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	: In my own honest opinion, "moderate" templar is a specific term applied to de la Serre's (both Elise and François) faction(s) during the infighting in Unity, as opposed to the "radical" faction of Germain and his allies. It should not be applied to others not involved in this particular conflict. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 18:22, September 15, 2020 (UTC)		: In my own honest opinion, "moderate" templar is a specific term applied to de la Serre's (both Elise and François) faction(s) during the infighting in Unity, as opposed to the "radical" faction of Germain and his allies. It should not be applied to others not involved in this particular conflict. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 18:22, September 15, 2020 (UTC)
	::Oh is the term ''moderate'' used in ''Unity''? I'm aware ''extremist'' is. I think you have a good point about not applying it to others not involved in that conflict. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 19:20, September 16, 2020 (UTC)		::Oh is the term ''moderate'' used in ''Unity''? I'm aware ''extremist'' is. I think you have a good point about not applying it to others not involved in that conflict. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 19:20, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

			:::The term is actually used in ''Forsaken'' By Reginald Birch, aside from that I'm currently writing a reply to your post that I will take to your talk page. And just a small thing, to make Elise's moderate Templar philosophy exclusive to her conflict in the French Revolution is impossible, given how much her views became influenced by Haytham's moderate views.--[[User:ACsenior\|ACsenior]] ([[User talk:ACsenior\|talk]]) 19:51, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Original research */

2020-09-16T19:20:39Z

Original research

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:20, 16 September 2020
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	: In my own honest opinion, "moderate" templar is a specific term applied to de la Serre's (both Elise and François) faction(s) during the infighting in Unity, as opposed to the "radical" faction of Germain and his allies. It should not be applied to others not involved in this particular conflict. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 18:22, September 15, 2020 (UTC)		: In my own honest opinion, "moderate" templar is a specific term applied to de la Serre's (both Elise and François) faction(s) during the infighting in Unity, as opposed to the "radical" faction of Germain and his allies. It should not be applied to others not involved in this particular conflict. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 18:22, September 15, 2020 (UTC)
			::Oh is the term ''moderate'' used in ''Unity''? I'm aware ''extremist'' is. I think you have a good point about not applying it to others not involved in that conflict. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 19:20, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

imported>Soranin: /* Original research */

2020-09-15T18:22:57Z

Original research

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:22, 15 September 2020
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	Finally, I find that there are too many syntax errors in this section. I have trouble extracting the main points and revising it properly. I am open to reintroducing it in a revised form, but I find it pressing to remove it entirely for now until further notice. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 18:01, September 15, 2020 (UTC)		Finally, I find that there are too many syntax errors in this section. I have trouble extracting the main points and revising it properly. I am open to reintroducing it in a revised form, but I find it pressing to remove it entirely for now until further notice. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 18:01, September 15, 2020 (UTC)

			: In my own honest opinion, "moderate" templar is a specific term applied to de la Serre's (both Elise and François) faction(s) during the infighting in Unity, as opposed to the "radical" faction of Germain and his allies. It should not be applied to others not involved in this particular conflict. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 18:22, September 15, 2020 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Original research */

2020-09-15T18:05:54Z

Original research

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:05, 15 September 2020
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	== Original research ==		== Original research ==

	ACSenior and I debated at length in years past regarding original research, but I find that we must revisit the topic again in the writing of this article. I think the most problematic section is "Applications" to the extent that I think it is necessary to remove immediately unless it can be rewritten in accordance with the no original research (NOR) policy.		ACSenior and I debated at length in years past regarding original research, but I find that we must revisit the topic again in the writing of this article. I think the most problematic section is "Applications" to the extent that I think it is necessary to remove immediately unless it can be rewritten in accordance with the no original research (NOR) policy.

	In particular, it reintroduces ACSenior's dichotomous rhetoric between "traditional Templars" and "moderate Templars". Although ''traditonal'' and ''moderate'' are indeed words which can be used descriptively rather than nominatively, whether they are accurate descriptors is up to personal interpretation. Bearing in mind my past debates with ACSenior where he insisted that these were irrefutable, concrete classifications, I have to assert once more that our sources do not use such vocabulary to my knowledge nor delineate Templars so cleanly.		In particular, it reintroduces ACSenior's dichotomous rhetoric between "traditional Templars" and "moderate Templars". Although ''traditonal'' and ''moderate'' are indeed words which can be used descriptively rather than nominatively, whether they are accurate descriptors is up to personal interpretation. Bearing in mind my past debates with ACSenior where he insisted that these were irrefutable, concrete classifications, I have to assert once more that our sources do not use such vocabulary to my knowledge nor delineate Templars so cleanly.

	Moreover, I dispute that Haytham is a "moderate" Templar. He is, in every respects, the archetypal, mainstream Templar. When I think of a ''moderate'' Templar, François de la Serre is the first to come to mind, yet from the perspective of Templars, he may have been ~~quite~~ radical for making peace with the Assassins. I also have my doubts that Haytham would have sided with de la Serre instead of Germain; I don't see the evidence for presenting him as an antithesis of Germain as the section does. He only sounds reasonable because he is given extensive screentime to vouch for his beliefs, but who is to say he wouldn't have approved of Germain's methods? Furthermore, I have never interpreted his truce with the Assassins via Connor in the same light as de la Serre's truce with Honoré Mirabeau. Haytham gave Connor a chance and dabbled in the idea of reconciliation because Connor was his son, not because his political and philosophical positions gave room for such reconciliation. That is my opinion. Hence, ''moderate'' needs to be qualified, and no, we should not feel free to formalize it as a canonical definition as previously seemed to be the implication in my talks with ACSenior over this.		Moreover, I dispute that Haytham is a "moderate" Templar. He is, in every respects, the archetypal, mainstream Templar. When I think of a ''moderate'' Templar, François de la Serre is the first to come to mind, yet from the perspective of Templars, he may have been extremely radical for making peace with the Assassins. I also have my doubts that Haytham would have sided with de la Serre instead of Germain; I don't see the evidence for presenting him as an antithesis of Germain as the section does. He only sounds reasonable because he is given extensive screentime to vouch for his beliefs, but who is to say he wouldn't have approved of Germain's methods? Furthermore, I have never interpreted his truce with the Assassins via Connor in the same light as de la Serre's truce with Honoré Mirabeau. Haytham gave Connor a chance and dabbled in the idea of reconciliation because Connor was his son, not because his political and philosophical positions gave room for such reconciliation. That is my opinion. Hence, ''moderate'' needs to be qualified, and no, we should not feel free to formalize it as a canonical definition as previously seemed to be the implication in my talks with ACSenior over this.

	I am trying to find the merit to this section. That Birch believed that deceiving Adepts was an acceptable, if not essential, method of training is indeed significant, but I have to ask: is this ACSenior's interpretation of Birch's deception or did Birch express that this openly? Did Birch deceive Haytham because he considered procedural in training Haytham to become an eventual Grand Master or did he deceive Haytham because it was his means of indoctrinating Haytham as a Templar? There's a substantial difference here.		I am trying to find the merit to this section. That Birch believed that deceiving Adepts was an acceptable, if not essential, method of training is indeed significant, but I have to ask: is this ACSenior's interpretation of Birch's deception or did Birch express that this openly? Did Birch deceive Haytham because he considered it procedural in training Haytham to become an eventual Grand Master or did he deceive Haytham because it was his means of indoctrinating Haytham as a Templar? There's a substantial difference here. Though these two need not be mutually exclusive, while we can readily verify the latter, I find the former to be too dubious.

	Finally, I find that there are too many syntax errors in this section. I have trouble extracting the main points and revising it properly. I am open to reintroducing it in a revised form, but I find it pressing to remove it entirely for now until further notice. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 18:01, September 15, 2020 (UTC)		Finally, I find that there are too many syntax errors in this section. I have trouble extracting the main points and revising it properly. I am open to reintroducing it in a revised form, but I find it pressing to remove it entirely for now until further notice. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 18:01, September 15, 2020 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Original research */ new section

2020-09-15T18:01:06Z

Original research: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:01, 15 September 2020
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	However, one counter-argument to this move might be that for consistency, we might want to move "Mentor" to "Mentor of the Assassins", which I find a little awkward. However, we really probably should accommodate the fact that there are Grand Masters of other orders, such as the Knights Hospitalier. I think Sibrand was also Grand Master of the Teutonic Knights right? [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 22:38, March 30, 2017 (UTC)		However, one counter-argument to this move might be that for consistency, we might want to move "Mentor" to "Mentor of the Assassins", which I find a little awkward. However, we really probably should accommodate the fact that there are Grand Masters of other orders, such as the Knights Hospitalier. I think Sibrand was also Grand Master of the Teutonic Knights right? [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 22:38, March 30, 2017 (UTC)

			== Original research ==

			ACSenior and I debated at length in years past regarding original research, but I find that we must revisit the topic again in the writing of this article. I think the most problematic section is "Applications" to the extent that I think it is necessary to remove immediately unless it can be rewritten in accordance with the no original research (NOR) policy.

			In particular, it reintroduces ACSenior's dichotomous rhetoric between "traditional Templars" and "moderate Templars". Although ''traditonal'' and ''moderate'' are indeed words which can be used descriptively rather than nominatively, whether they are accurate descriptors is up to personal interpretation. Bearing in mind my past debates with ACSenior where he insisted that these were irrefutable, concrete classifications, I have to assert once more that our sources do not use such vocabulary to my knowledge nor delineate Templars so cleanly.

			Moreover, I dispute that Haytham is a "moderate" Templar. He is, in every respects, the archetypal, mainstream Templar. When I think of a ''moderate'' Templar, François de la Serre is the first to come to mind, yet from the perspective of Templars, he may have been quite radical for making peace with the Assassins. I also have my doubts that Haytham would have sided with de la Serre instead of Germain; I don't see the evidence for presenting him as an antithesis of Germain as the section does. He only sounds reasonable because he is given extensive screentime to vouch for his beliefs, but who is to say he wouldn't have approved of Germain's methods? Furthermore, I have never interpreted his truce with the Assassins via Connor in the same light as de la Serre's truce with Honoré Mirabeau. Haytham gave Connor a chance and dabbled in the idea of reconciliation because Connor was his son, not because his political and philosophical positions gave room for such reconciliation. That is my opinion. Hence, ''moderate'' needs to be qualified, and no, we should not feel free to formalize it as a canonical definition as previously seemed to be the implication in my talks with ACSenior over this.

			I am trying to find the merit to this section. That Birch believed that deceiving Adepts was an acceptable, if not essential, method of training is indeed significant, but I have to ask: is this ACSenior's interpretation of Birch's deception or did Birch express that this openly? Did Birch deceive Haytham because he considered procedural in training Haytham to become an eventual Grand Master or did he deceive Haytham because it was his means of indoctrinating Haytham as a Templar? There's a substantial difference here.

			Finally, I find that there are too many syntax errors in this section. I have trouble extracting the main points and revising it properly. I am open to reintroducing it in a revised form, but I find it pressing to remove it entirely for now until further notice. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 18:01, September 15, 2020 (UTC)

imported>RebeccaAWB: /* top */Adding {{Talkheader}}

2019-07-02T14:20:15Z

top: Adding {{Talkheader}}

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			{{Talkheader}}
	Do this and [[Grand Master of the Assassin's Order]] deserve their own articles? All important information already is on the main factions' pages. This seems kind of pointless to me. -- [[User:Master Sima Yi\|Master Sima Yi]] 13:10, June 22, 2010 (UTC)		Do this and [[Grand Master of the Assassin's Order]] deserve their own articles? All important information already is on the main factions' pages. This seems kind of pointless to me. -- [[User:Master Sima Yi\|Master Sima Yi]] 13:10, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
	*A precedent has been set by the [[Novice]], [[Master Assassin]] and other rank/title articles. So I would say yes, unless you're challenging the other articles as well. --<span style="color:#BF404D">'''''[[User:Jasca Ducato\|Jasca Ducato]]''''' <sub>[[User talk:Jasca Ducato\|Council Chamber]]</sub> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Jasca_Ducato\|Assassination record]]</sup></span> 02:00, June 23, 2010 (UTC)		*A precedent has been set by the [[Novice]], [[Master Assassin]] and other rank/title articles. So I would say yes, unless you're challenging the other articles as well. --<span style="color:#BF404D">'''''[[User:Jasca Ducato\|Jasca Ducato]]''''' <sub>[[User talk:Jasca Ducato\|Council Chamber]]</sub> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Jasca_Ducato\|Assassination record]]</sup></span> 02:00, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

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	:::::I'm aware. Considering I'm going through both novels to write the reply, and since you mentioned it. The moderate views of Haytham called out by Birch is something Elise would later refer to as a ''Third Way''.--[[User:ACsenior\|ACsenior]] ([[User talk:ACsenior\|talk]]) 20:02, September 16, 2020 (UTC)		:::::I'm aware. Considering I'm going through both novels to write the reply, and since you mentioned it. The moderate views of Haytham called out by Birch is something Elise would later refer to as a ''Third Way''.--[[User:ACsenior\|ACsenior]] ([[User talk:ACsenior\|talk]]) 20:02, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

	::::::If you can find sources to back-up the use of the word ''moderate'' to describe these characters, that would be great. You should keep all replies on this talk page though so we have everything on one page; I don't know why you want to leave the rest on my talk page? [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 20:13, September 16, 2020 (UTC)		::::::If you can find sources to back-up the use of the word ''moderate'' to describe these characters, that would be great. You should keep all replies on this talk page though so we have everything on one page; I don't know why you want to leave the rest on my talk page? [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 20:13, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

			:::::::Of course, given that it requires more than a statement of being and therefor the characters are. I'll also have to source the actual distinctions between these Templars well, alright, I can leave it here. Similar to how the creation of the Black Cross have given a of new information what that defines Templars being corrupt, distinctions comes with their own characteristics that separates them.--[[User:ACsenior\|ACsenior]] ([[User talk:ACsenior\|talk]]) 20:29, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:51, 16 September 2020
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	: In my own honest opinion, "moderate" templar is a specific term applied to de la Serre's (both Elise and François) faction(s) during the infighting in Unity, as opposed to the "radical" faction of Germain and his allies. It should not be applied to others not involved in this particular conflict. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 18:22, September 15, 2020 (UTC)		: In my own honest opinion, "moderate" templar is a specific term applied to de la Serre's (both Elise and François) faction(s) during the infighting in Unity, as opposed to the "radical" faction of Germain and his allies. It should not be applied to others not involved in this particular conflict. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 18:22, September 15, 2020 (UTC)
	::Oh is the term ''moderate'' used in ''Unity''? I'm aware ''extremist'' is. I think you have a good point about not applying it to others not involved in that conflict. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 19:20, September 16, 2020 (UTC)		::Oh is the term ''moderate'' used in ''Unity''? I'm aware ''extremist'' is. I think you have a good point about not applying it to others not involved in that conflict. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 19:20, September 16, 2020 (UTC)

			:::The term is actually used in ''Forsaken'' By Reginald Birch, aside from that I'm currently writing a reply to your post that I will take to your talk page. And just a small thing, to make Elise's moderate Templar philosophy exclusive to her conflict in the French Revolution is impossible, given how much her views became influenced by Haytham's moderate views.--[[User:ACsenior\|ACsenior]] ([[User talk:ACsenior\|talk]]) 19:51, September 16, 2020 (UTC)