Talk:Egyptian Brotherhood of Assassins - Revision history

imported>RebeccaAWB: Adding {{Talkheader}}

2019-07-02T14:10:08Z

Adding {{Talkheader}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:10, 2 July 2019
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			{{Talkheader}}
	===Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones?===		===Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones?===
	Seeing as they are never actually called the Assassins except in the modern day, and how the proto-[[Templars]] have their own page as the [[Order of the Ancients]], should we make a page for the [[Hidden Ones]]? They would include [[Marcus Junius Brutus]], [[Aya]], [[Bayek]], [[Gaius Cassius Longinus]], and [[Tahira]]. Such a page could include the fact that they were eventually morphed into the [[Roman Brotherhood of Assassins]] and the [[Egyptian Brotherhood of Assassins]], but for some time, neither of those even existed.[[User:GZilla311\|GZilla311]] ([[User talk:GZilla311\|talk]]) 01:32, October 27, 2017 (UTC)		Seeing as they are never actually called the Assassins except in the modern day, and how the proto-[[Templars]] have their own page as the [[Order of the Ancients]], should we make a page for the [[Hidden Ones]]? They would include [[Marcus Junius Brutus]], [[Aya]], [[Bayek]], [[Gaius Cassius Longinus]], and [[Tahira]]. Such a page could include the fact that they were eventually morphed into the [[Roman Brotherhood of Assassins]] and the [[Egyptian Brotherhood of Assassins]], but for some time, neither of those even existed.[[User:GZilla311\|GZilla311]] ([[User talk:GZilla311\|talk]]) 01:32, October 27, 2017 (UTC)

imported>GZilla311: /* Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones? */

2017-10-29T19:37:25Z

Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones?

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:37, 29 October 2017
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	:::::Agreed, although Egyptian Assassins who lived during and after Hassan-i Sabbah's reorganization of the Order in the 11th century should obviously still be recognized as members of the Egyptian Brotherhood. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 02:16, October 29, 2017 (UTC)		:::::Agreed, although Egyptian Assassins who lived during and after Hassan-i Sabbah's reorganization of the Order in the 11th century should obviously still be recognized as members of the Egyptian Brotherhood. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 02:16, October 29, 2017 (UTC)

			::::::Also agreed. Who should make the [[Hidden Ones]] article, then? And what should be their insignia? The picture of the seashell marking?[[User:GZilla311\|GZilla311]] ([[User talk:GZilla311\|talk]]) 19:37, October 29, 2017 (UTC)

imported>The Wikia Editor at 00:16, 29 October 2017

2017-10-29T00:16:13Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:16, 29 October 2017
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	::::I am aware that Iltani makes reference to an Order she is part of, but ''Origins'' does not recognize this. Neither does it recognize there must've been Assassins before the start of the game. In fact, what it basically comes down to now is that the people such as Darius, Wei Yu and Iltani were simply people who fought for freedom against tyranny, and are therefore seen as precursors to the Assassins. There is no such thing as an organized brotherhood or even organization at the time of ''Origins'', nor does it recognize there has been one. All we can say now is that Iltani was part of an Order that had since vanished, or would later combine with the Hidden Ones. As for the Rosetta Stone, as we're left without actually knowing what this information pertains to, we cannot know if the information is about certain such people organizing to fight for freedom or that this information was engraved on it later. Likely we'll never find out. I'm fine with listing some of these activities on the Egyptian Brotherhood articles as well, but for completion's sake I'd like to have an in-depth article on the Hidden Ones too, and for character articles to accurately refer to their affiliation to the Hidden Ones rather than the "Egyptian Brotherhood". The Essential Guide is not the leading authority here, and we shouldn't let it be. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 22:46, October 28, 2017 (UTC)		::::I am aware that Iltani makes reference to an Order she is part of, but ''Origins'' does not recognize this. Neither does it recognize there must've been Assassins before the start of the game. In fact, what it basically comes down to now is that the people such as Darius, Wei Yu and Iltani were simply people who fought for freedom against tyranny, and are therefore seen as precursors to the Assassins. There is no such thing as an organized brotherhood or even organization at the time of ''Origins'', nor does it recognize there has been one. All we can say now is that Iltani was part of an Order that had since vanished, or would later combine with the Hidden Ones. As for the Rosetta Stone, as we're left without actually knowing what this information pertains to, we cannot know if the information is about certain such people organizing to fight for freedom or that this information was engraved on it later. Likely we'll never find out. I'm fine with listing some of these activities on the Egyptian Brotherhood articles as well, but for completion's sake I'd like to have an in-depth article on the Hidden Ones too, and for character articles to accurately refer to their affiliation to the Hidden Ones rather than the "Egyptian Brotherhood". The Essential Guide is not the leading authority here, and we shouldn't let it be. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 22:46, October 28, 2017 (UTC)

			:::::Agreed, although Egyptian Assassins who lived during and after Hassan-i Sabbah's reorganization of the Order in the 11th century should obviously still be recognized as members of the Egyptian Brotherhood. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 02:16, October 29, 2017 (UTC)

imported>Master Sima Yi: /* Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones? */

2017-10-28T22:46:07Z

Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones?

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:46, 29 October 2017
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	:::In ''Chronicles: India'', [[Database: Iltani's Story 5\|Iltani's final letter]] has her mention her "brothers" in "the Order", so we know that the "Babylonian Brotherhood" existed in some fashion, although the name is obviously retroactive. Even the Egyptian Brotherhood predates Bayek to some degree, as it was [[An Engaging Egyptologist\|stated]] that the Rosetta Stone (issued in 196 BCE) contained sensitive information concerning the Assassins. To me, the naming is basically the same as when we talk about the Byzantine Empire, which is a name that is used retroactively. It should also be noted that certain Templar groups operated publicly at certain points in time using different names. The German Rite operated as the Brothers of the Cross in the mid 14th century and the Canadian Rite operated as the Château Clique during the early 19th century. The Rites pages talk about any specific Rite's entire history, with the public persona(s) being given its own page to go into more detail on. We could the same with the Hidden Ones. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 00:10, October 29, 2017 (UTC)		:::In ''Chronicles: India'', [[Database: Iltani's Story 5\|Iltani's final letter]] has her mention her "brothers" in "the Order", so we know that the "Babylonian Brotherhood" existed in some fashion, although the name is obviously retroactive. Even the Egyptian Brotherhood predates Bayek to some degree, as it was [[An Engaging Egyptologist\|stated]] that the Rosetta Stone (issued in 196 BCE) contained sensitive information concerning the Assassins. To me, the naming is basically the same as when we talk about the Byzantine Empire, which is a name that is used retroactively. It should also be noted that certain Templar groups operated publicly at certain points in time using different names. The German Rite operated as the Brothers of the Cross in the mid 14th century and the Canadian Rite operated as the Château Clique during the early 19th century. The Rites pages talk about any specific Rite's entire history, with the public persona(s) being given its own page to go into more detail on. We could the same with the Hidden Ones. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 00:10, October 29, 2017 (UTC)

			::::I am aware that Iltani makes reference to an Order she is part of, but ''Origins'' does not recognize this. Neither does it recognize there must've been Assassins before the start of the game. In fact, what it basically comes down to now is that the people such as Darius, Wei Yu and Iltani were simply people who fought for freedom against tyranny, and are therefore seen as precursors to the Assassins. There is no such thing as an organized brotherhood or even organization at the time of ''Origins'', nor does it recognize there has been one. All we can say now is that Iltani was part of an Order that had since vanished, or would later combine with the Hidden Ones. As for the Rosetta Stone, as we're left without actually knowing what this information pertains to, we cannot know if the information is about certain such people organizing to fight for freedom or that this information was engraved on it later. Likely we'll never find out. I'm fine with listing some of these activities on the Egyptian Brotherhood articles as well, but for completion's sake I'd like to have an in-depth article on the Hidden Ones too, and for character articles to accurately refer to their affiliation to the Hidden Ones rather than the "Egyptian Brotherhood". The Essential Guide is not the leading authority here, and we shouldn't let it be. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 22:46, October 28, 2017 (UTC)

imported>The Wikia Editor at 22:10, 28 October 2017

2017-10-28T22:10:51Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:10, 29 October 2017
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	::I once again would like to reiterate that the term Liberalis Circulum is one taken from the semi-canon French comics and based on Aymar's [https://twitter.com/AymarMtl/status/918486330937573376 latest remarks] we cannot be too certain if they're still canon at all. Additionally it was only used in 259 and seemed to refer to a very small circle of people. I personally am not in favour. While including information on the Hidden Ones on the Assassins page is a given, having a separate article on Hidden Ones to go more in-depth on their differences and history is also required. Based on ''Origins'' we now know there is no such thing as Persian and Babylonian Brotherhoods, and considering the Hidden Ones influence seems to only spread throughout the Roman Empire so far, I do not think it right to any longer assume there be any such thing as Brotherhoods or Rites pre-Crusades, much as that atrocity of an Essential Guide likes to say there are. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 16:08, October 28, 2017 (UTC)		::I once again would like to reiterate that the term Liberalis Circulum is one taken from the semi-canon French comics and based on Aymar's [https://twitter.com/AymarMtl/status/918486330937573376 latest remarks] we cannot be too certain if they're still canon at all. Additionally it was only used in 259 and seemed to refer to a very small circle of people. I personally am not in favour. While including information on the Hidden Ones on the Assassins page is a given, having a separate article on Hidden Ones to go more in-depth on their differences and history is also required. Based on ''Origins'' we now know there is no such thing as Persian and Babylonian Brotherhoods, and considering the Hidden Ones influence seems to only spread throughout the Roman Empire so far, I do not think it right to any longer assume there be any such thing as Brotherhoods or Rites pre-Crusades, much as that atrocity of an Essential Guide likes to say there are. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 16:08, October 28, 2017 (UTC)

			:::In ''Chronicles: India'', [[Database: Iltani's Story 5\|Iltani's final letter]] has her mention her "brothers" in "the Order", so we know that the "Babylonian Brotherhood" existed in some fashion, although the name is obviously retroactive. Even the Egyptian Brotherhood predates Bayek to some degree, as it was [[An Engaging Egyptologist\|stated]] that the Rosetta Stone (issued in 196 BCE) contained sensitive information concerning the Assassins. To me, the naming is basically the same as when we talk about the Byzantine Empire, which is a name that is used retroactively. It should also be noted that certain Templar groups operated publicly at certain points in time using different names. The German Rite operated as the Brothers of the Cross in the mid 14th century and the Canadian Rite operated as the Château Clique during the early 19th century. The Rites pages talk about any specific Rite's entire history, with the public persona(s) being given its own page to go into more detail on. We could the same with the Hidden Ones. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 00:10, October 29, 2017 (UTC)

imported>Master Sima Yi: /* Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones? */

2017-10-28T16:11:08Z

Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones?

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:11, 28 October 2017
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	:Technically speaking, the term "Hidden Ones" applied to the Order as a whole, not just these two branches. Also, they did establish bureaus that were seperate from each other. In any case, the Roman Brotherhood was already established to have a different name (Liberalis Circulum), and the term "Roman Brotherhood" is definitely retroactive, used by later Assassins to identify their predecessors. I think most people are in favor of simply combining the Hidden Ones with the Assassins, as there isn't really a difference aside from what they call themselves. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 11:01, October 28, 2017 (UTC)		:Technically speaking, the term "Hidden Ones" applied to the Order as a whole, not just these two branches. Also, they did establish bureaus that were seperate from each other. In any case, the Roman Brotherhood was already established to have a different name (Liberalis Circulum), and the term "Roman Brotherhood" is definitely retroactive, used by later Assassins to identify their predecessors. I think most people are in favor of simply combining the Hidden Ones with the Assassins, as there isn't really a difference aside from what they call themselves. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 11:01, October 28, 2017 (UTC)

	::I once again would like to reiterate that the term Liberalis Circulum is one taken from the semi-canon French comics and based on Aymar's latest remarks we cannot be too certain if they're still canon at all. Additionally it was only used in 259 and seemed to refer to a very small circle of people. I personally am not in favour. While including information on the Hidden Ones on the Assassins page is a given, having a separate article on Hidden Ones to go more in-depth on their differences and history is also required. Based on ''Origins'' we now know there is no such thing as Persian and Babylonian Brotherhoods, and considering the Hidden Ones influence seems to only spread throughout the Roman Empire so far, I do not think it right to any longer assume there be any such thing as Brotherhoods or Rites pre-Crusades, much as that atrocity of an Essential Guide likes to say there are. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 16:08, October 28, 2017 (UTC)		::I once again would like to reiterate that the term Liberalis Circulum is one taken from the semi-canon French comics and based on Aymar's [https://twitter.com/AymarMtl/status/918486330937573376 latest remarks] we cannot be too certain if they're still canon at all. Additionally it was only used in 259 and seemed to refer to a very small circle of people. I personally am not in favour. While including information on the Hidden Ones on the Assassins page is a given, having a separate article on Hidden Ones to go more in-depth on their differences and history is also required. Based on ''Origins'' we now know there is no such thing as Persian and Babylonian Brotherhoods, and considering the Hidden Ones influence seems to only spread throughout the Roman Empire so far, I do not think it right to any longer assume there be any such thing as Brotherhoods or Rites pre-Crusades, much as that atrocity of an Essential Guide likes to say there are. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 16:08, October 28, 2017 (UTC)

imported>Master Sima Yi: /* Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones? */

2017-10-28T16:08:48Z

Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones?

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:08, 28 October 2017
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	===Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones?===		===Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones?===
	Seeing as they are never actually called the Assassins except in the modern day, and how the proto-[[Templars]] have their own page as the [[Order of the Ancients]], should we make a page for the [[Hidden Ones]]? They would include [[Marcus Junius Brutus]], [[Aya]], [[Bayek]], [[Gaius Cassius Longinus]], and [[Tahira]]. Such a page could include the fact that they were eventually morphed into the [[Roman Brotherhood of Assassins]] and the [[Egyptian Brotherhood of Assassins]], but for some time, neither of those even existed.[[User:GZilla311\|GZilla311]] ([[User talk:GZilla311\|talk]]) 01:32, October 27, 2017 (UTC)		Seeing as they are never actually called the Assassins except in the modern day, and how the proto-[[Templars]] have their own page as the [[Order of the Ancients]], should we make a page for the [[Hidden Ones]]? They would include [[Marcus Junius Brutus]], [[Aya]], [[Bayek]], [[Gaius Cassius Longinus]], and [[Tahira]]. Such a page could include the fact that they were eventually morphed into the [[Roman Brotherhood of Assassins]] and the [[Egyptian Brotherhood of Assassins]], but for some time, neither of those even existed.[[User:GZilla311\|GZilla311]] ([[User talk:GZilla311\|talk]]) 01:32, October 27, 2017 (UTC)

	:Technically speaking, the term "Hidden Ones" applied to the Order as a whole, not just these two branches. Also, they did establish bureaus that were seperate from each other. In any case, the Roman Brotherhood was already established to have a different name (Liberalis Circulum), and the term "Roman Brotherhood" is definitely retroactive, used by later Assassins to identify their predecessors. I think most people are in favor of simply combining the Hidden Ones with the Assassins, as there isn't really a difference aside from what they call themselves. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 11:01, October 28, 2017 (UTC)		:Technically speaking, the term "Hidden Ones" applied to the Order as a whole, not just these two branches. Also, they did establish bureaus that were seperate from each other. In any case, the Roman Brotherhood was already established to have a different name (Liberalis Circulum), and the term "Roman Brotherhood" is definitely retroactive, used by later Assassins to identify their predecessors. I think most people are in favor of simply combining the Hidden Ones with the Assassins, as there isn't really a difference aside from what they call themselves. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 11:01, October 28, 2017 (UTC)

			::I once again would like to reiterate that the term Liberalis Circulum is one taken from the semi-canon French comics and based on Aymar's latest remarks we cannot be too certain if they're still canon at all. Additionally it was only used in 259 and seemed to refer to a very small circle of people. I personally am not in favour. While including information on the Hidden Ones on the Assassins page is a given, having a separate article on Hidden Ones to go more in-depth on their differences and history is also required. Based on ''Origins'' we now know there is no such thing as Persian and Babylonian Brotherhoods, and considering the Hidden Ones influence seems to only spread throughout the Roman Empire so far, I do not think it right to any longer assume there be any such thing as Brotherhoods or Rites pre-Crusades, much as that atrocity of an Essential Guide likes to say there are. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 16:08, October 28, 2017 (UTC)

imported>The Wikia Editor at 09:01, 28 October 2017

2017-10-28T09:01:30Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:01, 28 October 2017
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	===Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones?===		===Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones?===
	Seeing as they are never actually called the Assassins except in the modern day, and how the proto-[[Templars]] have their own page as the [[Order of the Ancients]], should we make a page for the [[Hidden Ones]]? They would include [[Marcus Junius Brutus]], [[Aya]], [[Bayek]], [[Gaius Cassius Longinus]], and [[Tahira]]. Such a page could include the fact that they were eventually morphed into the [[Roman Brotherhood of Assassins]] and the [[Egyptian Brotherhood of Assassins]], but for some time, neither of those even existed.[[User:GZilla311\|GZilla311]] ([[User talk:GZilla311\|talk]]) 01:32, October 27, 2017 (UTC)		Seeing as they are never actually called the Assassins except in the modern day, and how the proto-[[Templars]] have their own page as the [[Order of the Ancients]], should we make a page for the [[Hidden Ones]]? They would include [[Marcus Junius Brutus]], [[Aya]], [[Bayek]], [[Gaius Cassius Longinus]], and [[Tahira]]. Such a page could include the fact that they were eventually morphed into the [[Roman Brotherhood of Assassins]] and the [[Egyptian Brotherhood of Assassins]], but for some time, neither of those even existed.[[User:GZilla311\|GZilla311]] ([[User talk:GZilla311\|talk]]) 01:32, October 27, 2017 (UTC)
			:Technically speaking, the term "Hidden Ones" applied to the Order as a whole, not just these two branches. Also, they did establish bureaus that were seperate from each other. In any case, the Roman Brotherhood was already established to have a different name (Liberalis Circulum), and the term "Roman Brotherhood" is definitely retroactive, used by later Assassins to identify their predecessors. I think most people are in favor of simply combining the Hidden Ones with the Assassins, as there isn't really a difference aside from what they call themselves. [[User:The Wikia Editor\|The Wikia Editor]] ([[User talk:The Wikia Editor\|talk]]) 11:01, October 28, 2017 (UTC)

imported>GZilla311: Created page with "===Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones?=== Seeing as they are never actually called the Assassins except in the modern day, and how the proto-Templars have their own page..."

2017-10-27T01:32:40Z

Created page with "===Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones?=== Seeing as they are never actually called the Assassins except in the modern day, and how the proto-Templars have their own page..."

Páàjì titun

===Egyptian Brotherhood vs. Hidden Ones?===
Seeing as they are never actually called the Assassins except in the modern day, and how the proto-[[Templars]] have their own page as the [[Order of the Ancients]], should we make a page for the [[Hidden Ones]]? They would include [[Marcus Junius Brutus]], [[Aya]], [[Bayek]], [[Gaius Cassius Longinus]], and [[Tahira]]. Such a page could include the fact that they were eventually morphed into the [[Roman Brotherhood of Assassins]] and the [[Egyptian Brotherhood of Assassins]], but for some time, neither of those even existed.[[User:GZilla311|GZilla311]] ([[User talk:GZilla311|talk]]) 01:32, October 27, 2017 (UTC)