Talk:Cesare Borgia - Revision history

imported>Darman36: /* The Borgia and Templars */

2021-01-23T20:15:43Z

The Borgia and Templars

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:15, 23 January 2021
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	:It may not literally be said in-game, but it's heavily implied in the memories "In and Out" and "An Apple a Day", at least. While it could be argued that the "we" Rodrigo speaks of in "In and Out" is just himself and Cesare, knowing Rodrigo is a Templar, there are few people he would trust with whom he could privately whisper about controlling all of Italy. Cesare likewise trusted only a handful of people with this information in order to enact the planned coup, so he would likely make privy any who worked with him that closely to the greater conspiracy. Further, as shown in "An Apple a Day", only Templars would openly speak of Assassins and mean the Brotherhood instead of "regular" contract killers. Why else would Rodrigo's line of ''"The Assassins murdered him."'' have the noun "assassin" start with a capital letter denoting it a pronoun? You're right in that Cesare did not become Grand Master with Rodrigo's death, but his ''de facto'' leadership (commands Papal army but still obeyed Grand Master) of the Templars became ''de jure'' (his word was law, as he had no superior or counter-claims for power). – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 01:15, September 6, 2020 (UTC)		:It may not literally be said in-game, but it's heavily implied in the memories "In and Out" and "An Apple a Day", at least. While it could be argued that the "we" Rodrigo speaks of in "In and Out" is just himself and Cesare, knowing Rodrigo is a Templar, there are few people he would trust with whom he could privately whisper about controlling all of Italy. Cesare likewise trusted only a handful of people with this information in order to enact the planned coup, so he would likely make privy any who worked with him that closely to the greater conspiracy. Further, as shown in "An Apple a Day", only Templars would openly speak of Assassins and mean the Brotherhood instead of "regular" contract killers. Why else would Rodrigo's line of ''"The Assassins murdered him."'' have the noun "assassin" start with a capital letter denoting it a pronoun? You're right in that Cesare did not become Grand Master with Rodrigo's death, but his ''de facto'' leadership (commands Papal army but still obeyed Grand Master) of the Templars became ''de jure'' (his word was law, as he had no superior or counter-claims for power). – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 01:15, September 6, 2020 (UTC)
	::It doesn’t need to be said in game as it’s said elsewhere like the novel and basically every other ancillary material that deals with time period or specific individuals. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 11:00, September 6, 2020 (UTC)		::It doesn’t need to be said in game as it’s said elsewhere like the novel and basically every other ancillary material that deals with time period or specific individuals. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 11:00, September 6, 2020 (UTC)
	::		:::The fact that he is rodrigo's son may be the reason he speaks openly about assassins with him. So much so that in the siege of monterigone he says "the pope told me about his band of assassins" indicating that he did not know about them before that, although I think it is possible that he had a Templar creation I think he was not formally introduced into the order. If you have any source I would just like someone to indicate in the trivia because in the game it was just a little implicit. And about our targets in the game, nothing indicates that they are in order. Only military allies and some parenres (king of France and other Italian houses) – [[User:Ragnarstark7]] September 6, 2020
	:: ~~The~~ fact that he is rodrigo's son may be the reason he speaks openly about assassins with him. So much so that in the siege of monterigone he says "the pope told me about his band of assassins" indicating that he did not know about them before that, although I think it is possible that he had a Templar creation I think he was not formally introduced into the order. If you have any source I would just like someone to indicate in the trivia because in the game it was just a little implicit. And about our targets in the game, nothing indicates that they are in order. Only military allies and some parenres (king of France and other Italian houses) ,		::::No, it's not. As Lacrosse said, it's established in plenty of supplementary material that Cesare is a Templar; his line about the Pope is him being flippant knowing that all concerned parties present (Cesare et al. vs the Auditores) caught the true meaning of his words. And again, I point to my earlier explanation: Cesare would only trust his closest confidents with knowledge that his enemies were Assassins, emphasizing the name as an active organization rather than a contracted killer in a way that only someone aware of the Assassin-Templar War would do. As for the targets, they do not have to explicitly be named as Templars if the main people they heavily associate with ''and'' act in accordance with ''are'' Templars. A key modifier, "and", as it filters out puppets who are either unaware their actions serve a larger purpose or are coerced into obedience. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 20:15, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
	::[[User:~~Ragnarstark7~~]] ~~September 6~~, ~~2020~~

imported>Ragnarstark7: /* The Borgia and Templars */

2020-09-06T17:00:20Z

The Borgia and Templars

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:00, 6 September 2020
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	:It may not literally be said in-game, but it's heavily implied in the memories "In and Out" and "An Apple a Day", at least. While it could be argued that the "we" Rodrigo speaks of in "In and Out" is just himself and Cesare, knowing Rodrigo is a Templar, there are few people he would trust with whom he could privately whisper about controlling all of Italy. Cesare likewise trusted only a handful of people with this information in order to enact the planned coup, so he would likely make privy any who worked with him that closely to the greater conspiracy. Further, as shown in "An Apple a Day", only Templars would openly speak of Assassins and mean the Brotherhood instead of "regular" contract killers. Why else would Rodrigo's line of ''"The Assassins murdered him."'' have the noun "assassin" start with a capital letter denoting it a pronoun? You're right in that Cesare did not become Grand Master with Rodrigo's death, but his ''de facto'' leadership (commands Papal army but still obeyed Grand Master) of the Templars became ''de jure'' (his word was law, as he had no superior or counter-claims for power). – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 01:15, September 6, 2020 (UTC)		:It may not literally be said in-game, but it's heavily implied in the memories "In and Out" and "An Apple a Day", at least. While it could be argued that the "we" Rodrigo speaks of in "In and Out" is just himself and Cesare, knowing Rodrigo is a Templar, there are few people he would trust with whom he could privately whisper about controlling all of Italy. Cesare likewise trusted only a handful of people with this information in order to enact the planned coup, so he would likely make privy any who worked with him that closely to the greater conspiracy. Further, as shown in "An Apple a Day", only Templars would openly speak of Assassins and mean the Brotherhood instead of "regular" contract killers. Why else would Rodrigo's line of ''"The Assassins murdered him."'' have the noun "assassin" start with a capital letter denoting it a pronoun? You're right in that Cesare did not become Grand Master with Rodrigo's death, but his ''de facto'' leadership (commands Papal army but still obeyed Grand Master) of the Templars became ''de jure'' (his word was law, as he had no superior or counter-claims for power). – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 01:15, September 6, 2020 (UTC)
	::It doesn’t need to be said in game as it’s said elsewhere like the novel and basically every other ancillary material that deals with time period or specific individuals. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 11:00, September 6, 2020 (UTC)		::It doesn’t need to be said in game as it’s said elsewhere like the novel and basically every other ancillary material that deals with time period or specific individuals. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 11:00, September 6, 2020 (UTC)
			::
			:: The fact that he is rodrigo's son may be the reason he speaks openly about assassins with him. So much so that in the siege of monterigone he says "the pope told me about his band of assassins" indicating that he did not know about them before that, although I think it is possible that he had a Templar creation I think he was not formally introduced into the order. If you have any source I would just like someone to indicate in the trivia because in the game it was just a little implicit. And about our targets in the game, nothing indicates that they are in order. Only military allies and some parenres (king of France and other Italian houses) ,
			::[[User:Ragnarstark7]] September 6, 2020

imported>Lacrossedeamon: /* The Borgia and Templars */

2020-09-06T11:00:18Z

The Borgia and Templars

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:00, 6 September 2020
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	Is there any source that says that he and the ''Brotherhood'' villains are Templars? Templars are not mentioned at any point in the game and everything indicates that Ezio eradicated the Italian rite in Assassins Creed 2, with the exception of Rodrigo Borgia. While it doesn't make sense for him to become a Grand Master by killing the previous Grand Master, the Templars are not Sith lords. – [[User:Ragnarstark7\|Ragnarstark7]] ([[User talk:Ragnarstark7\|talk]]) 20:39 September 5, 2020 (UTC)		Is there any source that says that he and the ''Brotherhood'' villains are Templars? Templars are not mentioned at any point in the game and everything indicates that Ezio eradicated the Italian rite in Assassins Creed 2, with the exception of Rodrigo Borgia. While it doesn't make sense for him to become a Grand Master by killing the previous Grand Master, the Templars are not Sith lords. – [[User:Ragnarstark7\|Ragnarstark7]] ([[User talk:Ragnarstark7\|talk]]) 20:39 September 5, 2020 (UTC)
	:It may not literally be said in-game, but it's heavily implied in the memories "In and Out" and "An Apple a Day", at least. While it could be argued that the "we" Rodrigo speaks of in "In and Out" is just himself and Cesare, knowing Rodrigo is a Templar, there are few people he would trust with whom he could privately whisper about controlling all of Italy. Cesare likewise trusted only a handful of people with this information in order to enact the planned coup, so he would likely make privy any who worked with him that closely to the greater conspiracy. Further, as shown in "An Apple a Day", only Templars would openly speak of Assassins and mean the Brotherhood instead of "regular" contract killers. Why else would Rodrigo's line of ''"The Assassins murdered him."'' have the noun "assassin" start with a capital letter denoting it a pronoun? You're right in that Cesare did not become Grand Master with Rodrigo's death, but his ''de facto'' leadership (commands Papal army but still obeyed Grand Master) of the Templars became ''de jure'' (his word was law, as he had no superior or counter-claims for power). – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 01:15, September 6, 2020 (UTC)		:It may not literally be said in-game, but it's heavily implied in the memories "In and Out" and "An Apple a Day", at least. While it could be argued that the "we" Rodrigo speaks of in "In and Out" is just himself and Cesare, knowing Rodrigo is a Templar, there are few people he would trust with whom he could privately whisper about controlling all of Italy. Cesare likewise trusted only a handful of people with this information in order to enact the planned coup, so he would likely make privy any who worked with him that closely to the greater conspiracy. Further, as shown in "An Apple a Day", only Templars would openly speak of Assassins and mean the Brotherhood instead of "regular" contract killers. Why else would Rodrigo's line of ''"The Assassins murdered him."'' have the noun "assassin" start with a capital letter denoting it a pronoun? You're right in that Cesare did not become Grand Master with Rodrigo's death, but his ''de facto'' leadership (commands Papal army but still obeyed Grand Master) of the Templars became ''de jure'' (his word was law, as he had no superior or counter-claims for power). – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 01:15, September 6, 2020 (UTC)
			::It doesn’t need to be said in game as it’s said elsewhere like the novel and basically every other ancillary material that deals with time period or specific individuals. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 11:00, September 6, 2020 (UTC)

imported>Darman36: /* The Borgias and templars */

2020-09-06T01:15:30Z

The Borgias and templars

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:15, 6 September 2020
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	I'd think that the people who have played Brotherhood would know how to pronounce Cesare :s I'm not sure if we want to mimic Wikipedia in that respect. Besides, it's a bit subjective - if we add one for Cesare, I'd figure we'd need a pronunciation guide for all characters. It doesn't really seem worth it, in my opinion. {{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 16:13, January 14, 2015 (UTC)		I'd think that the people who have played Brotherhood would know how to pronounce Cesare :s I'm not sure if we want to mimic Wikipedia in that respect. Besides, it's a bit subjective - if we add one for Cesare, I'd figure we'd need a pronunciation guide for all characters. It doesn't really seem worth it, in my opinion. {{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 16:13, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

	==~~'''~~The ~~Borgias~~ and ~~templars'''~~==		==The Borgia and Templars==
	Is there any source that says that he and the ~~brotherhood~~ villains are Templars? Templars are not mentioned at any point in the game and everything indicates that Ezio eradicated the Italian rite in Assassins Creed 2, with the exception of Rodrigo Borgia. While it ~~doesn’t~~ make sense for him to become a Grand Master by killing the previous Grand Master, the Templars are not Sith lords. --[[User:~~Ragnarstark7~~]] ~~september 5~~, 2020		Is there any source that says that he and the ''Brotherhood'' villains are Templars? Templars are not mentioned at any point in the game and everything indicates that Ezio eradicated the Italian rite in Assassins Creed 2, with the exception of Rodrigo Borgia. While it doesn't make sense for him to become a Grand Master by killing the previous Grand Master, the Templars are not Sith lords. – [[User:Ragnarstark7\|Ragnarstark7]] ([[User talk:Ragnarstark7\|talk]]) 20:39 September 5, 2020 (UTC)
			:It may not literally be said in-game, but it's heavily implied in the memories "In and Out" and "An Apple a Day", at least. While it could be argued that the "we" Rodrigo speaks of in "In and Out" is just himself and Cesare, knowing Rodrigo is a Templar, there are few people he would trust with whom he could privately whisper about controlling all of Italy. Cesare likewise trusted only a handful of people with this information in order to enact the planned coup, so he would likely make privy any who worked with him that closely to the greater conspiracy. Further, as shown in "An Apple a Day", only Templars would openly speak of Assassins and mean the Brotherhood instead of "regular" contract killers. Why else would Rodrigo's line of ''"The Assassins murdered him."'' have the noun "assassin" start with a capital letter denoting it a pronoun? You're right in that Cesare did not become Grand Master with Rodrigo's death, but his ''de facto'' leadership (commands Papal army but still obeyed Grand Master) of the Templars became ''de jure'' (his word was law, as he had no superior or counter-claims for power). – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 01:15, September 6, 2020 (UTC)

imported>Ragnarstark7: /* The Borgias and templars */

2020-09-05T20:43:41Z

The Borgias and templars

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:43, 5 September 2020
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	=='''The Borgias and templars'''==		=='''The Borgias and templars'''==
	Is there any source that says that he and the brotherhood villains are Templars? Templars are not mentioned at any point in the game and everything indicates that Ezio eradicated the Italian rite in Assassins Creed 2, with the exception of Rodrigo Borgia. While it doesn’t make sense for him to become a Grand Master by killing the previous Grand Master, the Templars are not Sith lords.		Is there any source that says that he and the brotherhood villains are Templars? Templars are not mentioned at any point in the game and everything indicates that Ezio eradicated the Italian rite in Assassins Creed 2, with the exception of Rodrigo Borgia. While it doesn’t make sense for him to become a Grand Master by killing the previous Grand Master, the Templars are not Sith lords. --[[User:Ragnarstark7]] september 5, 2020

imported>Ragnarstark7 at 20:39, 5 September 2020

2020-09-05T20:39:25Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:39, 5 September 2020
Line 79:		Line 79:

	I'd think that the people who have played Brotherhood would know how to pronounce Cesare :s I'm not sure if we want to mimic Wikipedia in that respect. Besides, it's a bit subjective - if we add one for Cesare, I'd figure we'd need a pronunciation guide for all characters. It doesn't really seem worth it, in my opinion. {{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 16:13, January 14, 2015 (UTC)		I'd think that the people who have played Brotherhood would know how to pronounce Cesare :s I'm not sure if we want to mimic Wikipedia in that respect. Besides, it's a bit subjective - if we add one for Cesare, I'd figure we'd need a pronunciation guide for all characters. It doesn't really seem worth it, in my opinion. {{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 16:13, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

			=='''The Borgias and templars'''==
			Is there any source that says that he and the brotherhood villains are Templars? Templars are not mentioned at any point in the game and everything indicates that Ezio eradicated the Italian rite in Assassins Creed 2, with the exception of Rodrigo Borgia. While it doesn’t make sense for him to become a Grand Master by killing the previous Grand Master, the Templars are not Sith lords.

imported>Crookandcharlatan: /* Pronunciation */

2015-01-14T16:13:21Z

Pronunciation

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:13, 14 January 2015
Line 77:		Line 77:

	Would it be possible for simplicities sake to add a pronunciation guide for his name as it would appear to be pronounced Sea-zar (like Julius) and as I recently learned it is pronounced Chez-aray. [[User:Hutchy01\|Hutchy01]] ([[User talk:Hutchy01\|talk]]) 16:04, January 14, 2015 (UTC)		Would it be possible for simplicities sake to add a pronunciation guide for his name as it would appear to be pronounced Sea-zar (like Julius) and as I recently learned it is pronounced Chez-aray. [[User:Hutchy01\|Hutchy01]] ([[User talk:Hutchy01\|talk]]) 16:04, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

			I'd think that the people who have played Brotherhood would know how to pronounce Cesare :s I'm not sure if we want to mimic Wikipedia in that respect. Besides, it's a bit subjective - if we add one for Cesare, I'd figure we'd need a pronunciation guide for all characters. It doesn't really seem worth it, in my opinion. {{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 16:13, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

imported>Hutchy01: /* Pronunciation */ new section

2015-01-14T16:04:05Z

Pronunciation: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:04, 14 January 2015
Line 73:		Line 73:
	This is trivial information but interesting none the less. Cesare was the second son of Rodrigo out of four full blooded siblings, as was Ezio. Even the structure of the siblings is the same for both; elder brother, younger sister and a baby brother. In the youths they both publicly took on jobs that there fathers had, while Cesare know of his father's secret of being a Templar and Ezio only found out of his father's connection to the Assassins after the murder of most of his family. Both would see the brilliance in Leonardo da Vinci and use his genius to help their respective causes. They would both seek the Apple of Eden and both rise to become heads of the respective Orders. [[User:Tripodssj6\|Tripodssj6]] 16:48, May 3, 2012 (UTC)		This is trivial information but interesting none the less. Cesare was the second son of Rodrigo out of four full blooded siblings, as was Ezio. Even the structure of the siblings is the same for both; elder brother, younger sister and a baby brother. In the youths they both publicly took on jobs that there fathers had, while Cesare know of his father's secret of being a Templar and Ezio only found out of his father's connection to the Assassins after the murder of most of his family. Both would see the brilliance in Leonardo da Vinci and use his genius to help their respective causes. They would both seek the Apple of Eden and both rise to become heads of the respective Orders. [[User:Tripodssj6\|Tripodssj6]] 16:48, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
	:... --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 18:40, May 3, 2012 (UTC)		:... --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 18:40, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

			== Pronunciation ==

			Would it be possible for simplicities sake to add a pronunciation guide for his name as it would appear to be pronounced Sea-zar (like Julius) and as I recently learned it is pronounced Chez-aray. [[User:Hutchy01\|Hutchy01]] ([[User talk:Hutchy01\|talk]]) 16:04, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

imported>Jasca Ducato: /* Similarities Between Cesare and Ezio */

2012-05-03T18:40:40Z

Similarities Between Cesare and Ezio

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:40, 3 May 2012
Line 72:		Line 72:

	This is trivial information but interesting none the less. Cesare was the second son of Rodrigo out of four full blooded siblings, as was Ezio. Even the structure of the siblings is the same for both; elder brother, younger sister and a baby brother. In the youths they both publicly took on jobs that there fathers had, while Cesare know of his father's secret of being a Templar and Ezio only found out of his father's connection to the Assassins after the murder of most of his family. Both would see the brilliance in Leonardo da Vinci and use his genius to help their respective causes. They would both seek the Apple of Eden and both rise to become heads of the respective Orders. [[User:Tripodssj6\|Tripodssj6]] 16:48, May 3, 2012 (UTC)		This is trivial information but interesting none the less. Cesare was the second son of Rodrigo out of four full blooded siblings, as was Ezio. Even the structure of the siblings is the same for both; elder brother, younger sister and a baby brother. In the youths they both publicly took on jobs that there fathers had, while Cesare know of his father's secret of being a Templar and Ezio only found out of his father's connection to the Assassins after the murder of most of his family. Both would see the brilliance in Leonardo da Vinci and use his genius to help their respective causes. They would both seek the Apple of Eden and both rise to become heads of the respective Orders. [[User:Tripodssj6\|Tripodssj6]] 16:48, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
	... --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 18:40, May 3, 2012 (UTC)		:... --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 18:40, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

imported>Jasca Ducato: /* Similarities Between Cesare and Ezio */

2012-05-03T18:40:27Z

Similarities Between Cesare and Ezio

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:40, 3 May 2012
Line 72:		Line 72:

	This is trivial information but interesting none the less. Cesare was the second son of Rodrigo out of four full blooded siblings, as was Ezio. Even the structure of the siblings is the same for both; elder brother, younger sister and a baby brother. In the youths they both publicly took on jobs that there fathers had, while Cesare know of his father's secret of being a Templar and Ezio only found out of his father's connection to the Assassins after the murder of most of his family. Both would see the brilliance in Leonardo da Vinci and use his genius to help their respective causes. They would both seek the Apple of Eden and both rise to become heads of the respective Orders. [[User:Tripodssj6\|Tripodssj6]] 16:48, May 3, 2012 (UTC)		This is trivial information but interesting none the less. Cesare was the second son of Rodrigo out of four full blooded siblings, as was Ezio. Even the structure of the siblings is the same for both; elder brother, younger sister and a baby brother. In the youths they both publicly took on jobs that there fathers had, while Cesare know of his father's secret of being a Templar and Ezio only found out of his father's connection to the Assassins after the murder of most of his family. Both would see the brilliance in Leonardo da Vinci and use his genius to help their respective causes. They would both seek the Apple of Eden and both rise to become heads of the respective Orders. [[User:Tripodssj6\|Tripodssj6]] 16:48, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
			... --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 18:40, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:00, 6 September 2020
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	Is there any source that says that he and the ''Brotherhood'' villains are Templars? Templars are not mentioned at any point in the game and everything indicates that Ezio eradicated the Italian rite in Assassins Creed 2, with the exception of Rodrigo Borgia. While it doesn't make sense for him to become a Grand Master by killing the previous Grand Master, the Templars are not Sith lords. – [[User:Ragnarstark7\|Ragnarstark7]] ([[User talk:Ragnarstark7\|talk]]) 20:39 September 5, 2020 (UTC)		Is there any source that says that he and the ''Brotherhood'' villains are Templars? Templars are not mentioned at any point in the game and everything indicates that Ezio eradicated the Italian rite in Assassins Creed 2, with the exception of Rodrigo Borgia. While it doesn't make sense for him to become a Grand Master by killing the previous Grand Master, the Templars are not Sith lords. – [[User:Ragnarstark7\|Ragnarstark7]] ([[User talk:Ragnarstark7\|talk]]) 20:39 September 5, 2020 (UTC)
	:It may not literally be said in-game, but it's heavily implied in the memories "In and Out" and "An Apple a Day", at least. While it could be argued that the "we" Rodrigo speaks of in "In and Out" is just himself and Cesare, knowing Rodrigo is a Templar, there are few people he would trust with whom he could privately whisper about controlling all of Italy. Cesare likewise trusted only a handful of people with this information in order to enact the planned coup, so he would likely make privy any who worked with him that closely to the greater conspiracy. Further, as shown in "An Apple a Day", only Templars would openly speak of Assassins and mean the Brotherhood instead of "regular" contract killers. Why else would Rodrigo's line of ''"The Assassins murdered him."'' have the noun "assassin" start with a capital letter denoting it a pronoun? You're right in that Cesare did not become Grand Master with Rodrigo's death, but his ''de facto'' leadership (commands Papal army but still obeyed Grand Master) of the Templars became ''de jure'' (his word was law, as he had no superior or counter-claims for power). – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 01:15, September 6, 2020 (UTC)		:It may not literally be said in-game, but it's heavily implied in the memories "In and Out" and "An Apple a Day", at least. While it could be argued that the "we" Rodrigo speaks of in "In and Out" is just himself and Cesare, knowing Rodrigo is a Templar, there are few people he would trust with whom he could privately whisper about controlling all of Italy. Cesare likewise trusted only a handful of people with this information in order to enact the planned coup, so he would likely make privy any who worked with him that closely to the greater conspiracy. Further, as shown in "An Apple a Day", only Templars would openly speak of Assassins and mean the Brotherhood instead of "regular" contract killers. Why else would Rodrigo's line of ''"The Assassins murdered him."'' have the noun "assassin" start with a capital letter denoting it a pronoun? You're right in that Cesare did not become Grand Master with Rodrigo's death, but his ''de facto'' leadership (commands Papal army but still obeyed Grand Master) of the Templars became ''de jure'' (his word was law, as he had no superior or counter-claims for power). – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 01:15, September 6, 2020 (UTC)
			::It doesn’t need to be said in game as it’s said elsewhere like the novel and basically every other ancillary material that deals with time period or specific individuals. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 11:00, September 6, 2020 (UTC)