Talk:Basim ibn Ishaq - Revision history

imported>Darman36: Darman36 moved page Talk:Basim Ibn Ishaq to Talk:Basim ibn Ishaq without leaving a redirect

2025-11-09T03:25:11Z

Darman36 moved page Talk:Basim Ibn Ishaq to Talk:Basim ibn Ishaq without leaving a redirect

← Older revision	Revision as of 05:25, 9 November 2025
(No difference)

imported>Darman36: /* Arabic naming conventions */

2025-11-09T03:20:49Z

Arabic naming conventions

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:20, 9 November 2025
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	==Arabic naming conventions==		==Arabic naming conventions==
	~~{{OpenTalk}}~~
	Currently, our policy is to correct Ubisoft's typos involving poor romanization of non-English words, e.g. "Yusuf's Turkish Kilij" vs its erroneous in-game rendering as "kijil", "Yu/Gu Dayong", etc. I would like to propose two minor corrections. First, removing the capital ⟨I⟩ in Basim's ''{{Wiki\|Arabic name\|nasab}}'' "Ibn" and replacing it with lowercase ⟨i⟩. While official company material capitalizes it, to my knowledge, no one of historical Arabic descent like Muhammad ibn Tahir or of in-universe creation like Jasoor ibn Basil ever has that written with a capital, with perhaps the sole exception of Altaïr's family, who treat the ''nasab'' like an unconventional ''nisbah''/surname.		Currently, our policy is to correct Ubisoft's typos involving poor romanization of non-English words, e.g. "Yusuf's Turkish Kilij" vs its erroneous in-game rendering as "kijil", "Yu/Gu Dayong", etc. I would like to propose two minor corrections. First, removing the capital ⟨I⟩ in Basim's ''{{Wiki\|Arabic name\|nasab}}'' "Ibn" and replacing it with lowercase ⟨i⟩. While official company material capitalizes it, to my knowledge, no one of historical Arabic descent like Muhammad ibn Tahir or of in-universe creation like Jasoor ibn Basil ever has that written with a capital, with perhaps the sole exception of Altaïr's family, who treat the ''nasab'' like an unconventional ''nisbah''/surname.

	Second, I believe we should move the page and adopt his Arabic stylization with "Is'haq". Yes, its I think only occurrence is Roshan's use during Basim's initiation, but I feel that it being closer to its proper localization than how English phonetically renders it as "ih-shack" borders on "faithful[ness] to the naming conventions of the subject's cultural and linguistic background", per the Manual of Style. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		<s>Second, I believe we should move the page and adopt his Arabic stylization with "Is'haq". Yes, its I think only occurrence is Roshan's use during Basim's initiation, but I feel that it being closer to its proper localization than how English phonetically renders it as "ih-shack" borders on "faithful[ness] to the naming conventions of the subject's cultural and linguistic background", per the Manual of Style.</s> – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)<br><br>What about the unusually capitalized ''nasab'', though? Or is that also vetoed? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)<br><br>What about the unusually capitalized ''nasab'', though? Or is that also vetoed? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
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	::::I'm also fine with the lowercase i, so long as the move retains the capital I page as a redirect. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 03:07, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		::::I'm also fine with the lowercase i, so long as the move retains the capital I page as a redirect. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 03:07, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	:::::That makes sense given its how Ubisoft formats it. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 03:14, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		:::::That makes sense given its how Ubisoft formats it. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 03:14, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
			I still think it's silly to keep ⟨I⟩ when smaller ⟨i⟩ is still the same letter that would be in the search bar, but fine, I'll keep it for the page name since Ubisoft insists on that for its own styling. And no, I won't ask that we do similar for Altaïr. Given his and his family's series prominence, it would be a titanic mess to clean that's not worth the effort. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 03:20, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

imported>Lacrossedeamon: /* Arabic naming conventions */

2025-11-09T03:14:55Z

Arabic naming conventions

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:14, 9 November 2025
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	:::I'd be fine with doing the lowercase ⟨i⟩ for "ibn" but yeah the ⟨'⟩ used in Ishaq is solely an Ubisoft thing to get the fanbase to stop pronouncing the ⟨sh⟩ as digraph since they are in two separate syllables. In romanization of Arabic script the ⟨'⟩ is used to denote the hamza and the 'ayn (technically open/closed are used to differentiate between the two). [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 02:58, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		:::I'd be fine with doing the lowercase ⟨i⟩ for "ibn" but yeah the ⟨'⟩ used in Ishaq is solely an Ubisoft thing to get the fanbase to stop pronouncing the ⟨sh⟩ as digraph since they are in two separate syllables. In romanization of Arabic script the ⟨'⟩ is used to denote the hamza and the 'ayn (technically open/closed are used to differentiate between the two). [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 02:58, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	::::I'm also fine with the lowercase i, so long as the move retains the capital I page as a redirect. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 03:07, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		::::I'm also fine with the lowercase i, so long as the move retains the capital I page as a redirect. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 03:07, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
			:::::That makes sense given its how Ubisoft formats it. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 03:14, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

imported>Soranin: /* Arabic naming conventions */

2025-11-09T03:07:05Z

Arabic naming conventions

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:07, 9 November 2025
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	::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)<br><br>What about the unusually capitalized ''nasab'', though? Or is that also vetoed? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)<br><br>What about the unusually capitalized ''nasab'', though? Or is that also vetoed? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	:::I'd be fine with doing the lowercase ⟨i⟩ for "ibn" but yeah the ⟨'⟩ used in Ishaq is solely an Ubisoft thing to get the fanbase to stop pronouncing the ⟨sh⟩ as digraph since they are in two separate syllables. In romanization of Arabic script the ⟨'⟩ is used to denote the hamza and the 'ayn (technically open/closed are used to differentiate between the two). [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 02:58, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		:::I'd be fine with doing the lowercase ⟨i⟩ for "ibn" but yeah the ⟨'⟩ used in Ishaq is solely an Ubisoft thing to get the fanbase to stop pronouncing the ⟨sh⟩ as digraph since they are in two separate syllables. In romanization of Arabic script the ⟨'⟩ is used to denote the hamza and the 'ayn (technically open/closed are used to differentiate between the two). [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 02:58, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
			::::I'm also fine with the lowercase i, so long as the move retains the capital I page as a redirect. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 03:07, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

imported>Lacrossedeamon: /* Arabic naming conventions */

2025-11-09T02:58:14Z

Arabic naming conventions

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:58, 9 November 2025
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	:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)<br><br>What about the unusually capitalized ''nasab'', though? Or is that also vetoed? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)<br><br>What about the unusually capitalized ''nasab'', though? Or is that also vetoed? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
			:::I'd be fine with doing the lowercase ⟨i⟩ for "ibn" but yeah the ⟨'⟩ used in Ishaq is solely an Ubisoft thing to get the fanbase to stop pronouncing the ⟨sh⟩ as digraph since they are in two separate syllables. In romanization of Arabic script the ⟨'⟩ is used to denote the hamza and the 'ayn (technically open/closed are used to differentiate between the two). [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 02:58, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

imported>Darman36: /* Arabic naming conventions */

2025-11-09T02:50:05Z

Arabic naming conventions

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:50, 9 November 2025
Line 34:		Line 34:

	==Arabic naming conventions==		==Arabic naming conventions==
			{{OpenTalk}}
	Currently, our policy is to correct Ubisoft's typos involving poor romanization of non-English words, e.g. "Yusuf's Turkish Kilij" vs its erroneous in-game rendering as "kijil", "Yu/Gu Dayong", etc. I would like to propose two minor corrections. First, removing the capital ⟨I⟩ in Basim's ''{{Wiki\|Arabic name\|nasab}}'' "Ibn" and replacing it with lowercase ⟨i⟩. While official company material capitalizes it, to my knowledge, no one of historical Arabic descent like Muhammad ibn Tahir or of in-universe creation like Jasoor ibn Basil ever has that written with a capital, with perhaps the sole exception of Altaïr's family, who treat the ''nasab'' like an unconventional ''nisbah''/surname.		Currently, our policy is to correct Ubisoft's typos involving poor romanization of non-English words, e.g. "Yusuf's Turkish Kilij" vs its erroneous in-game rendering as "kijil", "Yu/Gu Dayong", etc. I would like to propose two minor corrections. First, removing the capital ⟨I⟩ in Basim's ''{{Wiki\|Arabic name\|nasab}}'' "Ibn" and replacing it with lowercase ⟨i⟩. While official company material capitalizes it, to my knowledge, no one of historical Arabic descent like Muhammad ibn Tahir or of in-universe creation like Jasoor ibn Basil ever has that written with a capital, with perhaps the sole exception of Altaïr's family, who treat the ''nasab'' like an unconventional ''nisbah''/surname.

	Second, I believe we should move the page and adopt his Arabic stylization with "Is'haq". Yes, its I think only occurrence is Roshan's use during Basim's initiation, but I feel that it being closer to its proper localization than how English phonetically renders it as "ih-shack" borders on "faithful[ness] to the naming conventions of the subject's cultural and linguistic background", per the Manual of Style. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		Second, I believe we should move the page and adopt his Arabic stylization with "Is'haq". Yes, its I think only occurrence is Roshan's use during Basim's initiation, but I feel that it being closer to its proper localization than how English phonetically renders it as "ih-shack" borders on "faithful[ness] to the naming conventions of the subject's cultural and linguistic background", per the Manual of Style. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)<br><br>What about the unusually capitalized ''nasab'', though? Or is that also vetoed? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

imported>Darman36: /* Arabic naming conventions */

2025-11-09T02:45:15Z

Arabic naming conventions

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:45, 9 November 2025
Line 34:		Line 34:

	==Arabic naming conventions==		==Arabic naming conventions==
	~~{{OpenTalk}}~~		Currently, our policy is to correct Ubisoft's typos involving poor romanization of non-English words, e.g. "Yusuf's Turkish Kilij" vs its erroneous in-game rendering as "kijil", "Yu/Gu Dayong", etc. I would like to propose two minor corrections. First, removing the capital ⟨I⟩ in Basim's ''{{Wiki\|Arabic name\|nasab}}'' "Ibn" and replacing it with lowercase ⟨i⟩. While official company material capitalizes it, to my knowledge, no one of historical Arabic descent like Muhammad ibn Tahir or of in-universe creation like Jasoor ibn Basil ever has that written with a capital, with perhaps the sole exception of Altaïr's family, who treat the ''nasab'' like an unconventional ''nisbah''/surname.
	Currently, our policy is to correct Ubisoft's typos involving poor romanization of non-English words, e.g. "Yusuf's Turkish Kilij" vs its erroneous in-game rendering as "kijil", "Yu/Gu Dayong", etc. I would like to propose two minor corrections. First, removing the capital ⟨I⟩ in Basim's ''{{Wiki\|Arabic name\|nasab}}'' "Ibn" and replacing it with lowercase ⟨i⟩. While official company material capitalizes it, to my knowledge, no one of historical Arabic descent like Muhammad ibn Tahir or of in-universe creation like Jasoor ibn Basil ever has that written with a capital, with perhaps the sole exception of Altaïr's family, who treat the ''nasab'' like an unconventional ''nisbah''/surname. Second, I believe we should move the page and adopt his Arabic stylization with "Is'haq". Yes, its I think only occurrence is Roshan's use during Basim's initiation, but I feel that it being closer to its proper localization than how English phonetically renders it as "ih-shack" borders on "faithful[ness] to the naming conventions of the subject's cultural and linguistic background", per the Manual of Style. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "''the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name''". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		Second, I believe we should move the page and adopt his Arabic stylization with "Is'haq". Yes, its I think only occurrence is Roshan's use during Basim's initiation, but I feel that it being closer to its proper localization than how English phonetically renders it as "ih-shack" borders on "faithful[ness] to the naming conventions of the subject's cultural and linguistic background", per the Manual of Style. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
			:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
			::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

imported>Soranin: /* Arabic naming conventions */

2025-11-09T01:50:46Z

Arabic naming conventions

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:50, 9 November 2025
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	{{OpenTalk}}		{{OpenTalk}}
	Currently, our policy is to correct Ubisoft's typos involving poor romanization of non-English words, e.g. "Yusuf's Turkish Kilij" vs its erroneous in-game rendering as "kijil", "Yu/Gu Dayong", etc. I would like to propose two minor corrections. First, removing the capital ⟨I⟩ in Basim's ''{{Wiki\|Arabic name\|nasab}}'' "Ibn" and replacing it with lowercase ⟨i⟩. While official company material capitalizes it, to my knowledge, no one of historical Arabic descent like Muhammad ibn Tahir or of in-universe creation like Jasoor ibn Basil ever has that written with a capital, with perhaps the sole exception of Altaïr's family, who treat the ''nasab'' like an unconventional ''nisbah''/surname. Second, I believe we should move the page and adopt his Arabic stylization with "Is'haq". Yes, its I think only occurrence is Roshan's use during Basim's initiation, but I feel that it being closer to its proper localization than how English phonetically renders it as "ih-shack" borders on "faithful[ness] to the naming conventions of the subject's cultural and linguistic background", per the Manual of Style. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		Currently, our policy is to correct Ubisoft's typos involving poor romanization of non-English words, e.g. "Yusuf's Turkish Kilij" vs its erroneous in-game rendering as "kijil", "Yu/Gu Dayong", etc. I would like to propose two minor corrections. First, removing the capital ⟨I⟩ in Basim's ''{{Wiki\|Arabic name\|nasab}}'' "Ibn" and replacing it with lowercase ⟨i⟩. While official company material capitalizes it, to my knowledge, no one of historical Arabic descent like Muhammad ibn Tahir or of in-universe creation like Jasoor ibn Basil ever has that written with a capital, with perhaps the sole exception of Altaïr's family, who treat the ''nasab'' like an unconventional ''nisbah''/surname. Second, I believe we should move the page and adopt his Arabic stylization with "Is'haq". Yes, its I think only occurrence is Roshan's use during Basim's initiation, but I feel that it being closer to its proper localization than how English phonetically renders it as "ih-shack" borders on "faithful[ness] to the naming conventions of the subject's cultural and linguistic background", per the Manual of Style. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
			:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "''the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name''". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

imported>Darman36: /Arabic naming conventions/ New section

2025-11-09T00:10:30Z

Arabic naming conventions: New section

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:10, 9 November 2025
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	:::Thank you, yes I believe this is more the question I was getting at. If Layla is considered dead, shouldn't Basim also have been considered dead from 878-2020 and thus noted accordingly here on the wiki? Or, if Basim wasn't considered dead - just in suspended animation as Lacrossedeamon said - should Layla also still be considered alive? [[User:Boolbordan\|Boolbordan]] ([[User talk:Boolbordan\|talk]]) 13:50, 10 April 2023 (UTC)		:::Thank you, yes I believe this is more the question I was getting at. If Layla is considered dead, shouldn't Basim also have been considered dead from 878-2020 and thus noted accordingly here on the wiki? Or, if Basim wasn't considered dead - just in suspended animation as Lacrossedeamon said - should Layla also still be considered alive? [[User:Boolbordan\|Boolbordan]] ([[User talk:Boolbordan\|talk]]) 13:50, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

	== ~~Basim’s~~ birth ==		==Basim's birth==
			Make up your minds. Pick one year or the other. {{Unsigned\|Revan's Exile}} 18:31, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
	Make up your minds. Pick one year or the other.		:Can we keep 835 as his birth year? For me, Basim in Valhalla look much older than 28 years old. Also if he had the title of master before 867, it means that he was younger than Altaïr to obtain the rank. It created too much incoherence.[[User:Francesco75\|Francesco75]] ([[User talk:Francesco75\|talk]]) 10:05, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
			::The current information we have is that Basim is 17 at the start of the game and that it starts in 861. Later in the game, he's stated to be 20. We can't really deny in-game dates until they're retconned.[[User:RealBearZ\|RealBearZ]] ([[User talk:RealBearZ\|talk]]) 11:30, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
	:Can we keep 835 as his birth year ? For me, Basim in Valhalla look much older than 28 years old. Also if he had the title of master before 867, it means that he was younger than Altaïr to obtain the rank. It created to much incoherence.[[User:Francesco75\|Francesco75]] ([[User talk:Francesco75\|talk]]) 10:05, 11 October 2023 (UTC)		:::Did the game state he's 17 or is just the writer saying when she also said that the begin of the game occurred 20 years before Valhalla. With the new beginning in 861, I think that her previous statement could be questioned, as it is only a decade before Valhalla.[[User:Francesco75\|Francesco75]] ([[User talk:Francesco75\|talk]]) 12:53, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
	::~~the~~ current information we have is that ~~basim~~ is 17 at the start of the game and that it starts in 861~~, later~~ in the game ~~hes~~ stated to be 20. ~~we cant~~ really deny in game dates ~~untill~~ they're ~~retconed~~.[[User:RealBearZ\|RealBearZ]] ([[User talk:RealBearZ\|talk]]) 11:30, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
	:::Did the game ~~states is~~ 17 or it just the ~~writter sayings~~ when she also said that the begin of the game ~~occured~~ 20 years before Valhalla. With the new beginning in 861, I think that her previous statement could be ~~questionned~~ as it is only a decade before Valhalla.[[User:Francesco75\|Francesco75]] ([[User talk:Francesco75\|talk]]) 12:53, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
	::::Still, unless you have any source for that "835", it's staying as is. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 13:41, 11 October 2023 (UTC)		::::Still, unless you have any source for that "835", it's staying as is. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 13:41, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
	:::::But the source used, the writer said that Basim is around 17 and contradicted by saying is around 20 years before Valhalla. If for the writer around 20 years it is in fact 10 years, I could argue she meant that Basim is around 27 when she said he is around 17. You can't used a source which is contradictory in some case.		:::::But the source used, the writer said that Basim is around 17 and contradicted by saying is around 20 years before Valhalla. If for the writer around 20 years it is in fact 10 years, I could argue she meant that Basim is around 27 when she said he is around 17. You can't used a source which is contradictory in some case. To choose a middle ground, we can write that Basim is born in the 840's or early 9th century.[[User:Francesco75\|Francesco75]] ([[User talk:Francesco75\|talk]]) 14:33, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
	~~:::::~~To choose a middle ~~gound~~, we can write that Basim is born in the 840's or early 9th century.[[User:Francesco75\|Francesco75]] ([[User talk:Francesco75\|talk]]) 14:33, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
	::::::As far as I'm aware, the only piece of media put out by Ubisoft that gives Basim's year of birth is the "Abstergo profile" that was shown at Paris Games Week last year. And in that video they do unequivocally state that he was born in 835. However, that video also stated that Mirage begins in 852, which we now know is false. I'm quite certain that the original plan for Mirage was to have it start in 852 when Basim is 17 years old, but then at some point the plan changed. The final version of Mirage instead starts in 861 but without at all clarifying how old Basim is supposed to be. Either his original birth year stands and they simply moved the start of the game forwards a bit, thus making Basim 26 at the start of Mirage. Or they changed his birth year entirely to match the final version of the narrative, where he's still 17 at the start of the game but in 861 instead of 852. There's really no way to know which scenario is the correct one until we get some form of confirmation from Ubisoft. But until that happens, what we do know for sure is that he was born in the 9th century. [[User:N217062\|N217062]] ([[User talk:N217062\|talk]]) 08:30, 12 October 2023 (UTC)		::::::As far as I'm aware, the only piece of media put out by Ubisoft that gives Basim's year of birth is the "Abstergo profile" that was shown at Paris Games Week last year. And in that video they do unequivocally state that he was born in 835. However, that video also stated that Mirage begins in 852, which we now know is false. I'm quite certain that the original plan for Mirage was to have it start in 852 when Basim is 17 years old, but then at some point the plan changed. The final version of Mirage instead starts in 861 but without at all clarifying how old Basim is supposed to be. Either his original birth year stands and they simply moved the start of the game forwards a bit, thus making Basim 26 at the start of Mirage. Or they changed his birth year entirely to match the final version of the narrative, where he's still 17 at the start of the game but in 861 instead of 852. There's really no way to know which scenario is the correct one until we get some form of confirmation from Ubisoft. But until that happens, what we do know for sure is that he was born in the 9th century. [[User:N217062\|N217062]] ([[User talk:N217062\|talk]]) 08:30, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
	I'm not against removing the date altogether, I am, however, against using a number pulled out of nowhere, which was the suggestion I was responding to. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 23:32, 12 October 2023 (UTC)		I'm not against removing the date altogether, I am, however, against using a number pulled out of nowhere, which was the suggestion I was responding to. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 23:32, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

			==Arabic naming conventions==
			{{OpenTalk}}
			Currently, our policy is to correct Ubisoft's typos involving poor romanization of non-English words, e.g. "Yusuf's Turkish Kilij" vs its erroneous in-game rendering as "kijil", "Yu/Gu Dayong", etc. I would like to propose two minor corrections. First, removing the capital ⟨I⟩ in Basim's ''{{Wiki\|Arabic name\|nasab}}'' "Ibn" and replacing it with lowercase ⟨i⟩. While official company material capitalizes it, to my knowledge, no one of historical Arabic descent like Muhammad ibn Tahir or of in-universe creation like Jasoor ibn Basil ever has that written with a capital, with perhaps the sole exception of Altaïr's family, who treat the ''nasab'' like an unconventional ''nisbah''/surname. Second, I believe we should move the page and adopt his Arabic stylization with "Is'haq". Yes, its I think only occurrence is Roshan's use during Basim's initiation, but I feel that it being closer to its proper localization than how English phonetically renders it as "ih-shack" borders on "faithful[ness] to the naming conventions of the subject's cultural and linguistic background", per the Manual of Style. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

imported>Soranin: /* Basim’s birth */

2023-10-12T23:32:57Z

Basim’s birth

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:32, 13 October 2023
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	:::Did the game states is 17 or it just the writter sayings when she also said that the begin of the game occured 20 years before Valhalla. With the new beginning in 861, I think that her previous statement could be questionned as it is only a decade before Valhalla.[[User:Francesco75\|Francesco75]] ([[User talk:Francesco75\|talk]]) 12:53, 11 October 2023 (UTC)		:::Did the game states is 17 or it just the writter sayings when she also said that the begin of the game occured 20 years before Valhalla. With the new beginning in 861, I think that her previous statement could be questionned as it is only a decade before Valhalla.[[User:Francesco75\|Francesco75]] ([[User talk:Francesco75\|talk]]) 12:53, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
	::::Still, unless you have any source for that "835", it's staying as is. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 13:41, 11 October 2023 (UTC)		::::Still, unless you have any source for that "835", it's staying as is. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 13:41, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
	:::::As far as I'm aware, the only piece of media put out by Ubisoft that gives Basim's year of birth is the "Abstergo profile" that was shown at Paris Games Week last year. And in that video they do unequivocally state that he was born in 835. However, that video also stated that Mirage begins in 852, which we now know is false. I'm quite certain that the original plan for Mirage was to have it start in 852 when Basim is 17 years old, but then at some point the plan changed. The final version of Mirage instead starts in 861 but without at all clarifying how old Basim is supposed to be. Either his original birth year stands and they simply moved the start of the game forwards a bit, thus making Basim 26 at the start of Mirage. Or they changed his birth year entirely to match the final version of the narrative, where he's still 17 at the start of the game but in 861 instead of 852. There's really no way to know which scenario is the correct one until we get some form of confirmation from Ubisoft. But until that happens, what we do know for sure is that he was born in the 9th century. [[User:N217062\|N217062]] ([[User talk:N217062\|talk]]) 08:30, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

	:::::But the source used, the writer said that Basim is around 17 and contradicted by saying is around 20 years before Valhalla. If for the writer around 20 years it is in fact 10 years, I could argue she meant that Basim is around 27 when she said he is around 17. You can't used a source which is contradictory in some case.		:::::But the source used, the writer said that Basim is around 17 and contradicted by saying is around 20 years before Valhalla. If for the writer around 20 years it is in fact 10 years, I could argue she meant that Basim is around 27 when she said he is around 17. You can't used a source which is contradictory in some case.
	To choose a middle gound, we can write that Basim is born in the 840's or early 9th century.[[User:Francesco75\|Francesco75]] ([[User talk:Francesco75\|talk]]) 14:33, 11 October 2023 (UTC)		:::::To choose a middle gound, we can write that Basim is born in the 840's or early 9th century.[[User:Francesco75\|Francesco75]] ([[User talk:Francesco75\|talk]]) 14:33, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
			::::::As far as I'm aware, the only piece of media put out by Ubisoft that gives Basim's year of birth is the "Abstergo profile" that was shown at Paris Games Week last year. And in that video they do unequivocally state that he was born in 835. However, that video also stated that Mirage begins in 852, which we now know is false. I'm quite certain that the original plan for Mirage was to have it start in 852 when Basim is 17 years old, but then at some point the plan changed. The final version of Mirage instead starts in 861 but without at all clarifying how old Basim is supposed to be. Either his original birth year stands and they simply moved the start of the game forwards a bit, thus making Basim 26 at the start of Mirage. Or they changed his birth year entirely to match the final version of the narrative, where he's still 17 at the start of the game but in 861 instead of 852. There's really no way to know which scenario is the correct one until we get some form of confirmation from Ubisoft. But until that happens, what we do know for sure is that he was born in the 9th century. [[User:N217062\|N217062]] ([[User talk:N217062\|talk]]) 08:30, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
			I'm not against removing the date altogether, I am, however, against using a number pulled out of nowhere, which was the suggestion I was responding to. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 23:32, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:20, 9 November 2025
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	==Arabic naming conventions==		==Arabic naming conventions==
	~~{{OpenTalk}}~~
	Currently, our policy is to correct Ubisoft's typos involving poor romanization of non-English words, e.g. "Yusuf's Turkish Kilij" vs its erroneous in-game rendering as "kijil", "Yu/Gu Dayong", etc. I would like to propose two minor corrections. First, removing the capital ⟨I⟩ in Basim's ''{{Wiki\|Arabic name\|nasab}}'' "Ibn" and replacing it with lowercase ⟨i⟩. While official company material capitalizes it, to my knowledge, no one of historical Arabic descent like Muhammad ibn Tahir or of in-universe creation like Jasoor ibn Basil ever has that written with a capital, with perhaps the sole exception of Altaïr's family, who treat the ''nasab'' like an unconventional ''nisbah''/surname.		Currently, our policy is to correct Ubisoft's typos involving poor romanization of non-English words, e.g. "Yusuf's Turkish Kilij" vs its erroneous in-game rendering as "kijil", "Yu/Gu Dayong", etc. I would like to propose two minor corrections. First, removing the capital ⟨I⟩ in Basim's ''{{Wiki\|Arabic name\|nasab}}'' "Ibn" and replacing it with lowercase ⟨i⟩. While official company material capitalizes it, to my knowledge, no one of historical Arabic descent like Muhammad ibn Tahir or of in-universe creation like Jasoor ibn Basil ever has that written with a capital, with perhaps the sole exception of Altaïr's family, who treat the ''nasab'' like an unconventional ''nisbah''/surname.

	Second, I believe we should move the page and adopt his Arabic stylization with "Is'haq". Yes, its I think only occurrence is Roshan's use during Basim's initiation, but I feel that it being closer to its proper localization than how English phonetically renders it as "ih-shack" borders on "faithful[ness] to the naming conventions of the subject's cultural and linguistic background", per the Manual of Style. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		<s>Second, I believe we should move the page and adopt his Arabic stylization with "Is'haq". Yes, its I think only occurrence is Roshan's use during Basim's initiation, but I feel that it being closer to its proper localization than how English phonetically renders it as "ih-shack" borders on "faithful[ness] to the naming conventions of the subject's cultural and linguistic background", per the Manual of Style.</s> – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)<br><br>What about the unusually capitalized ''nasab'', though? Or is that also vetoed? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)<br><br>What about the unusually capitalized ''nasab'', though? Or is that also vetoed? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
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	::::I'm also fine with the lowercase i, so long as the move retains the capital I page as a redirect. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 03:07, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		::::I'm also fine with the lowercase i, so long as the move retains the capital I page as a redirect. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 03:07, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	:::::That makes sense given its how Ubisoft formats it. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 03:14, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		:::::That makes sense given its how Ubisoft formats it. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 03:14, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
			I still think it's silly to keep ⟨I⟩ when smaller ⟨i⟩ is still the same letter that would be in the search bar, but fine, I'll keep it for the page name since Ubisoft insists on that for its own styling. And no, I won't ask that we do similar for Altaïr. Given his and his family's series prominence, it would be a titanic mess to clean that's not worth the effort. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 03:20, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:14, 9 November 2025
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	:::I'd be fine with doing the lowercase ⟨i⟩ for "ibn" but yeah the ⟨'⟩ used in Ishaq is solely an Ubisoft thing to get the fanbase to stop pronouncing the ⟨sh⟩ as digraph since they are in two separate syllables. In romanization of Arabic script the ⟨'⟩ is used to denote the hamza and the 'ayn (technically open/closed are used to differentiate between the two). [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 02:58, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		:::I'd be fine with doing the lowercase ⟨i⟩ for "ibn" but yeah the ⟨'⟩ used in Ishaq is solely an Ubisoft thing to get the fanbase to stop pronouncing the ⟨sh⟩ as digraph since they are in two separate syllables. In romanization of Arabic script the ⟨'⟩ is used to denote the hamza and the 'ayn (technically open/closed are used to differentiate between the two). [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 02:58, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	::::I'm also fine with the lowercase i, so long as the move retains the capital I page as a redirect. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 03:07, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		::::I'm also fine with the lowercase i, so long as the move retains the capital I page as a redirect. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 03:07, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
			:::::That makes sense given its how Ubisoft formats it. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 03:14, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:07, 9 November 2025
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	::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)<br><br>What about the unusually capitalized ''nasab'', though? Or is that also vetoed? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)<br><br>What about the unusually capitalized ''nasab'', though? Or is that also vetoed? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	:::I'd be fine with doing the lowercase ⟨i⟩ for "ibn" but yeah the ⟨'⟩ used in Ishaq is solely an Ubisoft thing to get the fanbase to stop pronouncing the ⟨sh⟩ as digraph since they are in two separate syllables. In romanization of Arabic script the ⟨'⟩ is used to denote the hamza and the 'ayn (technically open/closed are used to differentiate between the two). [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 02:58, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		:::I'd be fine with doing the lowercase ⟨i⟩ for "ibn" but yeah the ⟨'⟩ used in Ishaq is solely an Ubisoft thing to get the fanbase to stop pronouncing the ⟨sh⟩ as digraph since they are in two separate syllables. In romanization of Arabic script the ⟨'⟩ is used to denote the hamza and the 'ayn (technically open/closed are used to differentiate between the two). [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 02:58, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
			::::I'm also fine with the lowercase i, so long as the move retains the capital I page as a redirect. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 03:07, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

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	:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)<br><br>What about the unusually capitalized ''nasab'', though? Or is that also vetoed? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)<br><br>What about the unusually capitalized ''nasab'', though? Or is that also vetoed? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
			:::I'd be fine with doing the lowercase ⟨i⟩ for "ibn" but yeah the ⟨'⟩ used in Ishaq is solely an Ubisoft thing to get the fanbase to stop pronouncing the ⟨sh⟩ as digraph since they are in two separate syllables. In romanization of Arabic script the ⟨'⟩ is used to denote the hamza and the 'ayn (technically open/closed are used to differentiate between the two). [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 02:58, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

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	==Arabic naming conventions==		==Arabic naming conventions==
			{{OpenTalk}}
	Currently, our policy is to correct Ubisoft's typos involving poor romanization of non-English words, e.g. "Yusuf's Turkish Kilij" vs its erroneous in-game rendering as "kijil", "Yu/Gu Dayong", etc. I would like to propose two minor corrections. First, removing the capital ⟨I⟩ in Basim's ''{{Wiki\|Arabic name\|nasab}}'' "Ibn" and replacing it with lowercase ⟨i⟩. While official company material capitalizes it, to my knowledge, no one of historical Arabic descent like Muhammad ibn Tahir or of in-universe creation like Jasoor ibn Basil ever has that written with a capital, with perhaps the sole exception of Altaïr's family, who treat the ''nasab'' like an unconventional ''nisbah''/surname.		Currently, our policy is to correct Ubisoft's typos involving poor romanization of non-English words, e.g. "Yusuf's Turkish Kilij" vs its erroneous in-game rendering as "kijil", "Yu/Gu Dayong", etc. I would like to propose two minor corrections. First, removing the capital ⟨I⟩ in Basim's ''{{Wiki\|Arabic name\|nasab}}'' "Ibn" and replacing it with lowercase ⟨i⟩. While official company material capitalizes it, to my knowledge, no one of historical Arabic descent like Muhammad ibn Tahir or of in-universe creation like Jasoor ibn Basil ever has that written with a capital, with perhaps the sole exception of Altaïr's family, who treat the ''nasab'' like an unconventional ''nisbah''/surname.

	Second, I believe we should move the page and adopt his Arabic stylization with "Is'haq". Yes, its I think only occurrence is Roshan's use during Basim's initiation, but I feel that it being closer to its proper localization than how English phonetically renders it as "ih-shack" borders on "faithful[ness] to the naming conventions of the subject's cultural and linguistic background", per the Manual of Style. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		Second, I believe we should move the page and adopt his Arabic stylization with "Is'haq". Yes, its I think only occurrence is Roshan's use during Basim's initiation, but I feel that it being closer to its proper localization than how English phonetically renders it as "ih-shack" borders on "faithful[ness] to the naming conventions of the subject's cultural and linguistic background", per the Manual of Style. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		:Back in 2023, when Mirage had first came out we discussed moving this page to "Basim Ibn Is'haq", though lacrosse pointed out in the discord that "Is'haq" is not "the accepted romanization of the name given the ‘ is usually reserved for transliteration of specific Arabic characters that don't appear in the name". Myself and Cyfiero both agreed with not moving the page under that argument. - [[User:Soranin\|Soranin]] ([[User talk:Soranin\|talk]]) 01:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)
	::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)		::Oh, really? I was unaware, thank you. That must have been before I was even sporadically using Discord at all, then. I'll trust Lacrosse's linguistic knowledge and retract this proposal, and also undo the move I'd done for his father's name based on the trophy descriptions. – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)<br><br>What about the unusually capitalized ''nasab'', though? Or is that also vetoed? – [[User:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;font-size:15px;color:#">Darman</span>]] ([[User talk:Darman36\|<span style="font-family:Viner Hand ITC;color:#">talk</span>]]) 02:50, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Basim ibn Ishaq - Revision history

imported>Darman36: Darman36 moved page Talk:Basim Ibn Ishaq to Talk:Basim ibn Ishaq without leaving a redirect

imported>Darman36: /* Arabic naming conventions */

imported>Lacrossedeamon: /* Arabic naming conventions */

imported>Soranin: /* Arabic naming conventions */

imported>Lacrossedeamon: /* Arabic naming conventions */

imported>Darman36: /* Arabic naming conventions */

imported>Darman36: /* Arabic naming conventions */

imported>Soranin: /* Arabic naming conventions */

imported>Darman36: /*Arabic naming conventions*/ New section

imported>Soranin: /* Basim’s birth */

imported>Darman36: /Arabic naming conventions/ New section