Talk:Assassins - Revision history

Soranin: /* Era icons */

2026-05-15T14:06:13Z

Era icons

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:06, 15 May 2026
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	::I have a brilliant idea that nobody but me could possibly think of - make a single universal icon that corresponds to the entire AC series. Unconceivable alternative to keeping n+1 icons on the page, right? --<span style="text-shadow: black 1px 2px 3px;">[[User:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" face="OCR A" size="4">Kainzorus Prime</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" size="6">⚜</font>]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#4C99A6"><sup>Walkie-talkie</sup></font>]]</span> 17:12, December 22, 2014 (UTC)		::I have a brilliant idea that nobody but me could possibly think of - make a single universal icon that corresponds to the entire AC series. Unconceivable alternative to keeping n+1 icons on the page, right? --<span style="text-shadow: black 1px 2px 3px;">[[User:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" face="OCR A" size="4">Kainzorus Prime</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" size="6">⚜</font>]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#4C99A6"><sup>Walkie-talkie</sup></font>]]</span> 17:12, December 22, 2014 (UTC)

	:::Considering this is an AC wiki, what would be the point in having a single icon stating that the article subject appears in the AC series? We'd be better off using a method similar to the [[w:c:fallout:\|''Fallout'' Wiki]]; or even having tiered icons - only the parent icon (e.g. "Colonial era") shows until hovered over, then we see "AC3", "AC4BF", "ACRG". That would take '''a lot''' of coding, however. --'''''[[User:Jasca Ducato\|Jasca Ducato]]''''' <small>([[User talk:Jasca Ducato\|talk]] \| [[Special:Contributions/Jasca Ducato\|contributions]])</small> 17:17, December 22, 2014 (UTC)		:::Considering this is an AC wiki, what would be the point in having a single icon stating that the article subject appears in the AC series? We'd be better off using a method similar to the [w:c:fallout:\|''Fallout'' Wiki]]; or even having tiered icons - only the parent icon (e.g. "Colonial era") shows until hovered over, then we see "AC3", "AC4BF", "ACRG". That would take '''a lot''' of coding, however. --'''''[[User:Jasca Ducato\|Jasca Ducato]]''''' <small>([[User talk:Jasca Ducato\|talk]] \| [[Special:Contributions/Jasca Ducato\|contributions]])</small> 17:17, December 22, 2014 (UTC)

	::::Not for the purpose of "it appears in the AC series". For the purpose of "it appears in every installment and side media iteration of the series". Get the difference? It's neater to just have one icon signify that it appears throughout the series, than code a glorified tabber just for icons themselves. --<span style="text-shadow: black 1px 2px 3px;">[[User:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" face="OCR A" size="4">Kainzorus Prime</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" size="6">⚜</font>]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#4C99A6"><sup>Walkie-talkie</sup></font>]]</span> 18:04, December 22, 2014 (UTC)		::::Not for the purpose of "it appears in the AC series". For the purpose of "it appears in every installment and side media iteration of the series". Get the difference? It's neater to just have one icon signify that it appears throughout the series, than code a glorified tabber just for icons themselves. --<span style="text-shadow: black 1px 2px 3px;">[[User:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" face="OCR A" size="4">Kainzorus Prime</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" size="6">⚜</font>]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#4C99A6"><sup>Walkie-talkie</sup></font>]]</span> 18:04, December 22, 2014 (UTC)

Soranin: /* Rashid ad-Din Sinan or Al Mualim? */

2026-05-13T12:46:44Z

Rashid ad-Din Sinan or Al Mualim?

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:46, 13 May 2026
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	==Rashid ad-Din Sinan or Al Mualim?==		==Rashid ad-Din Sinan or Al Mualim?==
	The admin Master Sima Yi changed the page name to "Al Mualim" and wrote "The reason he's not called Rashid ad-Din Sinan is because of a copyright. I've been asked to move the page back by a Ubisoft representative", so...why you insist on keeping that name ? [[User:Marcos Olivari Aylas\|Marcos Martín]] ([[User ~~tak~~:Marcos Olivari Aylas\|talk]]) 23:02, October 31, 2016 (UTC)'''		The admin Master Sima Yi changed the page name to "Al Mualim" and wrote "The reason he's not called Rashid ad-Din Sinan is because of a copyright. I've been asked to move the page back by a Ubisoft representative", so...why you insist on keeping that name ? [[User:Marcos Olivari Aylas\|Marcos Martín]] ([[User talk:Marcos Olivari Aylas\|talk]]) 23:02, October 31, 2016 (UTC)'''
	:Interestingly, it is because Ubisoft, on his blog, referred to Al Mualim as Rashid ad-Din Sinan. Link: http://blog.ubi.com/en-GB/assassins-creed-movie-leap-faith/ [[User:TheCreedX\|TheCreedX]] ([[User talk:TheCreedX\|talk]]) 23:14, October 31, 2016 (UTC)		:Interestingly, it is because Ubisoft, on his blog, referred to Al Mualim as Rashid ad-Din Sinan. Link: http://blog.ubi.com/en-GB/assassins-creed-movie-leap-faith/ [[User:TheCreedX\|TheCreedX]] ([[User talk:TheCreedX\|talk]]) 23:14, October 31, 2016 (UTC)
	:: "proved the strength of his army to an opponent by telling one of his own men to leap from the top of a castle. The man did, and was dashed on the rocks below." It's implied that they're talking about the historic figure, because in AC1 there were more than one man performing the leap of faith and neither of them died. Also they wrote this: "Fortunately for the '''in-game Assassins''', Ubisoft’s level designers have usually placed convenient hay carts below Leap of Faith-appropriate jumps to break their fall." Marcos Martín 23:22, October 31, 2016 (UTC)		:: "proved the strength of his army to an opponent by telling one of his own men to leap from the top of a castle. The man did, and was dashed on the rocks below." It's implied that they're talking about the historic figure, because in AC1 there were more than one man performing the leap of faith and neither of them died. Also they wrote this: "Fortunately for the '''in-game Assassins''', Ubisoft’s level designers have usually placed convenient hay carts below Leap of Faith-appropriate jumps to break their fall." Marcos Martín 23:22, October 31, 2016 (UTC)

Soranin: /* Rashid ad-Din Sinan or Al Mualim? */

2026-05-13T11:42:26Z

Rashid ad-Din Sinan or Al Mualim?

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:42, 13 May 2026
Line 313:		Line 313:

	==Rashid ad-Din Sinan or Al Mualim?==		==Rashid ad-Din Sinan or Al Mualim?==
	The admin Master Sima Yi changed the page name to "Al Mualim" and wrote "The reason he's not called Rashid ad-Din Sinan is because of a copyright. I've been asked to move the page back by a Ubisoft representative", so...why you insist on keeping that name ? [[User:Marcos Olivari Aylas\|Marcos Martín]] ([[~~Talk~~:Marcos Olivari ~~Alas~~\|talk]]) 23:02, October 31, 2016 (UTC)'''		The admin Master Sima Yi changed the page name to "Al Mualim" and wrote "The reason he's not called Rashid ad-Din Sinan is because of a copyright. I've been asked to move the page back by a Ubisoft representative", so...why you insist on keeping that name ? [[User:Marcos Olivari Aylas\|Marcos Martín]] ([[User tak:Marcos Olivari Aylas\|talk]]) 23:02, October 31, 2016 (UTC)'''
	:Interestingly, it is because Ubisoft, on his blog, referred to Al Mualim as Rashid ad-Din Sinan. Link: http://blog.ubi.com/en-GB/assassins-creed-movie-leap-faith/ [[User:TheCreedX\|TheCreedX]] ([[User talk:TheCreedX\|talk]]) 23:14, October 31, 2016 (UTC)		:Interestingly, it is because Ubisoft, on his blog, referred to Al Mualim as Rashid ad-Din Sinan. Link: http://blog.ubi.com/en-GB/assassins-creed-movie-leap-faith/ [[User:TheCreedX\|TheCreedX]] ([[User talk:TheCreedX\|talk]]) 23:14, October 31, 2016 (UTC)
	:: "proved the strength of his army to an opponent by telling one of his own men to leap from the top of a castle. The man did, and was dashed on the rocks below." It's implied that they're talking about the historic figure, because in AC1 there were more than one man performing the leap of faith and neither of them died. Also they wrote this: "Fortunately for the '''in-game Assassins''', Ubisoft’s level designers have usually placed convenient hay carts below Leap of Faith-appropriate jumps to break their fall." Marcos Martín 23:22, October 31, 2016 (UTC)		:: "proved the strength of his army to an opponent by telling one of his own men to leap from the top of a castle. The man did, and was dashed on the rocks below." It's implied that they're talking about the historic figure, because in AC1 there were more than one man performing the leap of faith and neither of them died. Also they wrote this: "Fortunately for the '''in-game Assassins''', Ubisoft’s level designers have usually placed convenient hay carts below Leap of Faith-appropriate jumps to break their fall." Marcos Martín 23:22, October 31, 2016 (UTC)

imported>Darman36: /Brotherhood membership/ New section

2025-10-30T17:30:33Z

Brotherhood membership: New section

Show changes

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Notes on intro rewrite */

2021-09-20T17:07:56Z

Notes on intro rewrite

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:07, 20 September 2021
Line 594:		Line 594:
	*Last paragraph summarizes history and basics of their conflict with the Templars.		*Last paragraph summarizes history and basics of their conflict with the Templars.
	*I did my best to seamlessly and clearly synchronize the idea that the Assassins originated with Adam & Eve vs. originating with Bayek & Aya by describing the former as a genetic and cultural link and the latter as an official founding. I still made mention that the Assassin and Templar conflict is remembered as though it has existed for all of human history rather than writing over that entirely.		*I did my best to seamlessly and clearly synchronize the idea that the Assassins originated with Adam & Eve vs. originating with Bayek & Aya by describing the former as a genetic and cultural link and the latter as an official founding. I still made mention that the Assassin and Templar conflict is remembered as though it has existed for all of human history rather than writing over that entirely.
	*I considered writing "Eve and Adam" instead of "Adam and Eve" because I think Eve was more important, but I'm not sure if I'm remembering that correctly and admittedly "Adam and Eve" rolls off the tongue more naturally for obvious Biblical ~~and historical~~ reasons. I also considered naming Aya before Bayek but flowing from the previous sentence which introduces the Medjay, it made sense to name the last Medjay first.		*I considered writing "Eve and Adam" instead of "Adam and Eve" because I think Eve was more important, but I'm not sure if I'm remembering that correctly and admittedly "Adam and Eve" rolls off the tongue more naturally because that's how everyone has been saying it for all these years because of obvious Biblical reasons, so I wasn't sure what people prefer or if it matters. I also considered naming Aya before Bayek but flowing from the previous sentence which introduces the Medjay, it made sense to name the last Medjay first.
	*I always see the "order" vs. "freedom" dichotomy as a Templar narrative not faithful to the Assassin perspective. Another common major error is the idea that Assassins are all about freedom and nothing but, no nuances. But that theme of "freedom" and "free will" comes up so often in sources' description of the Assassins that these words still have to be included in the intro in my opinion. So I tried to concisely explain in the second paragraph the thought process leading to their valuing of freedom of expression, I made sure that in the very last line of the introduction, I made an explicit reference to "free will".		*I always see the "order" vs. "freedom" dichotomy as a Templar narrative not faithful to the Assassin perspective. Another common major error is the idea that Assassins are all about freedom and nothing but, no nuances. But that theme of "freedom" and "free will" comes up so often in sources' description of the Assassins that these words still have to be included in the intro in my opinion. So I tried to concisely explain in the second paragraph the thought process leading to their valuing of freedom of expression, I made sure that in the very last line of the introduction, I made an explicit reference to "free will".
	*Whoever wrote "continuous, recondite war" before for the [[Assassin-Templar War]] link, I thought ''recondite'' was an interesting word choice, and I'm not entirely sure if it's the right word to use here, but I decided to preserve it somehow. ''Continuous'' is too soft and lacks impact though. (:P).		*Whoever wrote "continuous, recondite war" before for the [[Assassin-Templar War]] link, I thought ''recondite'' was an interesting word choice, and I'm not entirely sure if it's the right word to use here, but I decided to preserve it somehow. ''Continuous'' is too soft and lacks impact though. (:P).

	My rewrite here isn't necessarily perfect. There are some word choices I wasn't entirely sure about, and so it's of course open to suggestions. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 17:05, 20 September 2021 (UTC)		My rewrite here isn't necessarily perfect. There are some word choices I wasn't entirely sure about, and so it's of course open to suggestions. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 17:05, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Notes on intro rewrite */ new section

2021-09-20T17:05:45Z

Notes on intro rewrite: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:05, 20 September 2021
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	[[User:Ellen-the-educator\|Ellen-the-educator]] ([[User talk:Ellen-the-educator\|talk]]) 21:58, 30 May 2021 (UTC)		[[User:Ellen-the-educator\|Ellen-the-educator]] ([[User talk:Ellen-the-educator\|talk]]) 21:58, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
	:I will take care of the initial rewrite, but I definitely appreciate your input as well as anyone else's in the meantime. Your suggestion here is a good one. :) [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 01:06, 31 May 2021 (UTC)		:I will take care of the initial rewrite, but I definitely appreciate your input as well as anyone else's in the meantime. Your suggestion here is a good one. :) [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 01:06, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

			== Notes on intro rewrite ==

			I felt like leaving some editors' notes here for my rewrite of the introduction just for the hell of it and also in case if it would be useful information.

			*First sentence ("The Assassin Brotherhood, also known as the Assassin Order, is an order of assassins") was kind of tautologial. I know it's not technically wrong since ''assassin'' doesn't mean the same thing as Assassin, but it veers too close to being tautological.
			*Lede shouldn't define Assassins by conflict with Templars, which should be at the end.
			*I used the most accurate political terminology I could think for defining them in the first sentence.
			*I wanted to preserve the original intent of defining them as an "order of assassins" in the first paragraph by describing their focus on stealth and assassination, which are definitely their key features.
			*Slipped in a brief mention of the term ''assassin'' being derived from the Assassins I thought might be helpful for any reader who is completely new to the series and knows nothing about it.
			*I used the second paragraph to give a more extended overview of the fundamental characteristics of Assassins by summarizing their Creed, philosophy, and ideology.
			*I thought it was important to explain the value-neutral content of their "Creed", which is actually an epistemic claim not an ideological one, while also touching upon their actual cultural ideology which prominently exists despite their base principle of teaching people to develop their own independent belief system.
			*I mentioned the prohibition against harming innocent lives in the first paragraph not the second because I think it is so significant and defining of a characteristic that it actually stands out from the rest of the tenets because it guides their entire methodology, something that is reinforced by ''The Hidden Ones'' DLC which shows what inspired it. It is also often neglected by fans when comparing them with the Templars despite its significance.
			*Last paragraph summarizes history and basics of their conflict with the Templars.
			*I did my best to seamlessly and clearly synchronize the idea that the Assassins originated with Adam & Eve vs. originating with Bayek & Aya by describing the former as a genetic and cultural link and the latter as an official founding. I still made mention that the Assassin and Templar conflict is remembered as though it has existed for all of human history rather than writing over that entirely.
			*I considered writing "Eve and Adam" instead of "Adam and Eve" because I think Eve was more important, but I'm not sure if I'm remembering that correctly and admittedly "Adam and Eve" rolls off the tongue more naturally for obvious Biblical and historical reasons. I also considered naming Aya before Bayek but flowing from the previous sentence which introduces the Medjay, it made sense to name the last Medjay first.
			*I always see the "order" vs. "freedom" dichotomy as a Templar narrative not faithful to the Assassin perspective. Another common major error is the idea that Assassins are all about freedom and nothing but, no nuances. But that theme of "freedom" and "free will" comes up so often in sources' description of the Assassins that these words still have to be included in the intro in my opinion. So I tried to concisely explain in the second paragraph the thought process leading to their valuing of freedom of expression, I made sure that in the very last line of the introduction, I made an explicit reference to "free will".
			*Whoever wrote "continuous, recondite war" before for the [[Assassin-Templar War]] link, I thought ''recondite'' was an interesting word choice, and I'm not entirely sure if it's the right word to use here, but I decided to preserve it somehow. ''Continuous'' is too soft and lacks impact though. (:P).

			My rewrite here isn't necessarily perfect. There are some word choices I wasn't entirely sure about, and so it's of course open to suggestions. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 17:05, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Ideals and Goals */

2021-05-31T01:06:20Z

Ideals and Goals

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:06, 31 May 2021
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	I totally agree that you or someone else should rewrite the section - I'd volunteer, but I'm honestly not well-read enough on the series to do it - I was just trying to point out some issues I had with the phrasing and usage of certain words within the article as it was, and ideally suggest some of those rewrites.		I totally agree that you or someone else should rewrite the section - I'd volunteer, but I'm honestly not well-read enough on the series to do it - I was just trying to point out some issues I had with the phrasing and usage of certain words within the article as it was, and ideally suggest some of those rewrites.
	[[User:Ellen-the-educator\|Ellen-the-educator]] ([[User talk:Ellen-the-educator\|talk]]) 21:58, 30 May 2021 (UTC)		[[User:Ellen-the-educator\|Ellen-the-educator]] ([[User talk:Ellen-the-educator\|talk]]) 21:58, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
			:I will take care of the initial rewrite, but I definitely appreciate your input as well as anyone else's in the meantime. Your suggestion here is a good one. :) [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 01:06, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

imported>Ellen-the-educator: /* Ideals and Goals */

2021-05-30T21:58:29Z

Ideals and Goals

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:58, 30 May 2021
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	Specifically, I think that when you refute the idea that the Creed endorses moral nihlism (which I agree you should do) it'd be best to write something like "the Creed does not endorse nihilism - nor does it endorse libertarianism, liberalism, statism, anarchism, communism, or federalism - because it does not endorse anything. It is an observation that nothing is true, and that everything is permitted, and the conclusions that individual assassins, or even groups within the brotherhood, draw from that are their own, and not the Creed's."		Specifically, I think that when you refute the idea that the Creed endorses moral nihlism (which I agree you should do) it'd be best to write something like "the Creed does not endorse nihilism - nor does it endorse libertarianism, liberalism, statism, anarchism, communism, or federalism - because it does not endorse anything. It is an observation that nothing is true, and that everything is permitted, and the conclusions that individual assassins, or even groups within the brotherhood, draw from that are their own, and not the Creed's."
	I totally agree that you or someone else should rewrite the section - I'd volunteer, but I'm honestly not well-read enough on the series to do it - I was just trying to point out some issues I had with the phrasing and usage of certain words within the article as it was, and ideally suggest some of those rewrites.		I totally agree that you or someone else should rewrite the section - I'd volunteer, but I'm honestly not well-read enough on the series to do it - I was just trying to point out some issues I had with the phrasing and usage of certain words within the article as it was, and ideally suggest some of those rewrites.
			[[User:Ellen-the-educator\|Ellen-the-educator]] ([[User talk:Ellen-the-educator\|talk]]) 21:58, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

imported>Ellen-the-educator: /* Ideals and Goals */

2021-05-30T21:48:15Z

Ideals and Goals

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:48, 30 May 2021
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	I think I am definitely going to rewrite the entire section though lol. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 20:21, 30 May 2021 (UTC)		I think I am definitely going to rewrite the entire section though lol. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 20:21, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


			I'll first say I think we have gotten off the topic a bunch, and I'll try and stick to just the discussion of what changes I suggest for the article here.
			Specifically, I think that when you refute the idea that the Creed endorses moral nihlism (which I agree you should do) it'd be best to write something like "the Creed does not endorse nihilism - nor does it endorse libertarianism, liberalism, statism, anarchism, communism, or federalism - because it does not endorse anything. It is an observation that nothing is true, and that everything is permitted, and the conclusions that individual assassins, or even groups within the brotherhood, draw from that are their own, and not the Creed's."
			I totally agree that you or someone else should rewrite the section - I'd volunteer, but I'm honestly not well-read enough on the series to do it - I was just trying to point out some issues I had with the phrasing and usage of certain words within the article as it was, and ideally suggest some of those rewrites.

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Ideals and Goals */

2021-05-30T20:23:59Z

Ideals and Goals

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:23, 30 May 2021
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	[[User:Ellen-the-educator\|Ellen-the-educator]] ([[User talk:Ellen-the-educator\|talk]]) 14:19, 30 May 2021 (UTC)		[[User:Ellen-the-educator\|Ellen-the-educator]] ([[User talk:Ellen-the-educator\|talk]]) 14:19, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
	::Really quick response to your first answer because I have to go get my second Pfizer shot: I think you may have missed that the section is explaining that the Creed itself is a descriptive statement, not a normative one. As it explains, it does not promote nihilism, anarchism, or even libertarianism because it does not prescribe ''any'' particular philosophy. It is merely, as Ezio explains, an "observation of reality" and strictly concerns epistemology. In the sentence that you were referring to "Their libertarian belief system...", this sentence, on the other hand, is referring to the Assassins' belief system but not the meaning of their actual Creed. The Creed itself does not endorse nihilism, anarchism, or libertarianism, but the Assassins, beyond the Creed, clearly do have their own ideology which has to be gleamed from their own actions and expressed values in the stories. As for libertarianism being a synonym of anarchism, it is true that anarchism is libertarian, but it is more specific. Every anarchist is libertarian but not every libertarian is an anarchist. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 16:56, 30 May 2021 (UTC)		::Really quick response to your first answer because I have to go get my second Pfizer shot: I think you may have missed that the section is explaining that the Creed itself is a descriptive statement, not a normative one. As it explains, it does not promote nihilism, anarchism, or even libertarianism because it does not prescribe ''any'' particular philosophy. It is merely, as Ezio explains, an "observation of reality" and strictly concerns epistemology. In the sentence that you were referring to "Their libertarian belief system...", this sentence, on the other hand, is referring to the Assassins' belief system but not the meaning of their actual Creed. The Creed itself does not endorse nihilism, anarchism, or libertarianism, but the Assassins, beyond the Creed, clearly do have their own ideology which has to be gleamed from their own actions and expressed values in the stories. As for libertarianism being a synonym of anarchism, it is true that anarchism is libertarian, but it is more specific. Every anarchist is libertarian but not every libertarian is an anarchist. [[User:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:17px">'''Sol Pacificus'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Sol Pacificus\|<span style="color:#D4AF37;font-family:Californian FB;font-size:11px">(Cyfiero)</span>]]</sup> 16:56, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
	::Continuing on, based particularly on these last lines:
			Continuing on, based particularly on these last lines:
	<blockquote>The creed, both as it literally is and how they teach it, is compatible with anarchism as defined by anarchists, and is almost perfectly aligned with optimistic nihilism. But that's not actually the point of my Talk topic - that's a philosophical argument that I think would be best in the discord or similar. The point I was trying to make is that the article takes a side against anarchism and nihilism, and appears to do so without a firm grounding in those philosophies, and that there are more accurate words to describe the ideas in the article.</blockquote>		<blockquote>The creed, both as it literally is and how they teach it, is compatible with anarchism as defined by anarchists, and is almost perfectly aligned with optimistic nihilism. But that's not actually the point of my Talk topic - that's a philosophical argument that I think would be best in the discord or similar. The point I was trying to make is that the article takes a side against anarchism and nihilism, and appears to do so without a firm grounding in those philosophies, and that there are more accurate words to describe the ideas in the article.</blockquote>
	The Creed is ultimately only an affirmation of the limits of acquiring knowledge, which necessarily hinges upon empiricism. I repeat again that it is a descriptive, not a normative statement. However, there are several philosophical attitudes that can logically be derived from this descriptive statement and among them are perspectivism, pluralism, and moral relativism. But chief among the normative corollaries is to guard oneself against extremism, false dualities, and upholding certain beliefs and values as absolutes. As discussed in the article and acknowledged by Altaïr himself, this would create a paradox if not for the fact that these are derived meanings, not the meaning of the Creed itself. The Creed is normatively-neutral; it is a revelation of reality which does not in and of itself tell you what you must do with that realization. (The Assassins ''do'' have a particular belief system that they teach their members, but it is separate from the Creed.)		The Creed is ultimately only an affirmation of the limits of acquiring knowledge, which necessarily hinges upon empiricism. I repeat again that it is a descriptive, not a normative statement. However, there are several philosophical attitudes that can logically be derived from this descriptive statement and among them are perspectivism, pluralism, and moral relativism. But chief among the normative corollaries is to guard oneself against extremism, false dualities, and upholding certain beliefs and values as absolutes. As discussed in the article and acknowledged by Altaïr himself, this would create a paradox if not for the fact that these are derived meanings, not the meaning of the Creed itself. The Creed is normatively-neutral; it is a revelation of reality which does not in and of itself tell you what you must do with that realization. (The Assassins ''do'' have a particular belief system that they teach their members, but it is separate from the Creed.)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:06, 15 May 2026
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	::I have a brilliant idea that nobody but me could possibly think of - make a single universal icon that corresponds to the entire AC series. Unconceivable alternative to keeping n+1 icons on the page, right? --<span style="text-shadow: black 1px 2px 3px;">[[User:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" face="OCR A" size="4">Kainzorus Prime</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" size="6">⚜</font>]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#4C99A6"><sup>Walkie-talkie</sup></font>]]</span> 17:12, December 22, 2014 (UTC)		::I have a brilliant idea that nobody but me could possibly think of - make a single universal icon that corresponds to the entire AC series. Unconceivable alternative to keeping n+1 icons on the page, right? --<span style="text-shadow: black 1px 2px 3px;">[[User:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" face="OCR A" size="4">Kainzorus Prime</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" size="6">⚜</font>]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#4C99A6"><sup>Walkie-talkie</sup></font>]]</span> 17:12, December 22, 2014 (UTC)

	:::Considering this is an AC wiki, what would be the point in having a single icon stating that the article subject appears in the AC series? We'd be better off using a method similar to the [[w:c:fallout:\|''Fallout'' Wiki]]; or even having tiered icons - only the parent icon (e.g. "Colonial era") shows until hovered over, then we see "AC3", "AC4BF", "ACRG". That would take '''a lot''' of coding, however. --'''''[[User:Jasca Ducato\|Jasca Ducato]]''''' <small>([[User talk:Jasca Ducato\|talk]] \| [[Special:Contributions/Jasca Ducato\|contributions]])</small> 17:17, December 22, 2014 (UTC)		:::Considering this is an AC wiki, what would be the point in having a single icon stating that the article subject appears in the AC series? We'd be better off using a method similar to the [w:c:fallout:\|''Fallout'' Wiki]]; or even having tiered icons - only the parent icon (e.g. "Colonial era") shows until hovered over, then we see "AC3", "AC4BF", "ACRG". That would take '''a lot''' of coding, however. --'''''[[User:Jasca Ducato\|Jasca Ducato]]''''' <small>([[User talk:Jasca Ducato\|talk]] \| [[Special:Contributions/Jasca Ducato\|contributions]])</small> 17:17, December 22, 2014 (UTC)

	::::Not for the purpose of "it appears in the AC series". For the purpose of "it appears in every installment and side media iteration of the series". Get the difference? It's neater to just have one icon signify that it appears throughout the series, than code a glorified tabber just for icons themselves. --<span style="text-shadow: black 1px 2px 3px;">[[User:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" face="OCR A" size="4">Kainzorus Prime</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" size="6">⚜</font>]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#4C99A6"><sup>Walkie-talkie</sup></font>]]</span> 18:04, December 22, 2014 (UTC)		::::Not for the purpose of "it appears in the AC series". For the purpose of "it appears in every installment and side media iteration of the series". Get the difference? It's neater to just have one icon signify that it appears throughout the series, than code a glorified tabber just for icons themselves. --<span style="text-shadow: black 1px 2px 3px;">[[User:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" face="OCR A" size="4">Kainzorus Prime</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" size="6">⚜</font>]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#4C99A6"><sup>Walkie-talkie</sup></font>]]</span> 18:04, December 22, 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Assassins - Revision history

Soranin: /* Era icons */

Soranin: /* Rashid ad-Din Sinan or Al Mualim? */

Soranin: /* Rashid ad-Din Sinan or Al Mualim? */

imported>Darman36: /*Brotherhood membership*/ New section

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Notes on intro rewrite */

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Notes on intro rewrite */ new section

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Ideals and Goals */

imported>Ellen-the-educator: /* Ideals and Goals */

imported>Ellen-the-educator: /* Ideals and Goals */

imported>Sol Pacificus: /* Ideals and Goals */

imported>Darman36: /Brotherhood membership/ New section