Talk:Aita - Revision history

imported>Lacrossedeamon: /* Personality retcon */ new section

2024-10-19T05:21:17Z

Personality retcon: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:21, 19 October 2024
Line 82:		Line 82:

	::::It must be a complex DNA system for (2) sages to be born in the same decade (sometimes), then come back after a few centuries. Also how the Mayans and Aztecs came to hold him in high regard while he was worshiped as Hades and Pluto in the Greco-Roman world (and since he built the Observatory in Jamaica). [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 21:16, September 23, 2014 (UTC)		::::It must be a complex DNA system for (2) sages to be born in the same decade (sometimes), then come back after a few centuries. Also how the Mayans and Aztecs came to hold him in high regard while he was worshiped as Hades and Pluto in the Greco-Roman world (and since he built the Observatory in Jamaica). [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 21:16, September 23, 2014 (UTC)

			== Personality retcon ==

			{{OpenTalk}}
			The Aita seen in [[Thom Kavanagh's letters]] seems neutral if not supportive to Minerva's plans to help the humans before being overruled by Juno. I would say this is at odds with his later depictions, specifically Odyssey, but I am not sure how well it squares with Roberts and Standish iterations and if this is enough to mention in either the personality section or the BTS. [[User:Lacrossedeamon\|Lacrossedeamon]] ([[User talk:Lacrossedeamon\|talk]]) 05:21, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

imported>Lacrossedeamon at 08:38, 29 June 2024

2024-06-29T08:38:05Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:38, 29 June 2024
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{Talkheader}}		{{Talkheader}}
			==Fourth Solution==
	I'm pretty positive that in AC3 Juno tells Desmond that the fourth solution encompassed changing what they were and that Aita volunteered for the experiment. There was a failure and he "was made a prisoner of the machines" which I think means that he could not have survived without machines anymore.		I'm pretty positive that in AC3 Juno tells Desmond that the fourth solution encompassed changing what they were and that Aita volunteered for the experiment. There was a failure and he "was made a prisoner of the machines" which I think means that he could not have survived without machines anymore.

imported>Soranin at 14:32, 6 December 2021

2021-12-06T14:32:19Z

imported>RebeccaAWB: /* top */Adding {{Talkheader}}

2019-07-02T13:42:43Z

top: Adding {{Talkheader}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:42, 2 July 2019
Line 1:		Line 1:
			{{Talkheader}}
	I'm pretty positive that in AC3 Juno tells Desmond that the fourth solution encompassed changing what they were and that Aita volunteered for the experiment. There was a failure and he "was made a prisoner of the machines" which I think means that he could not have survived without machines anymore.		I'm pretty positive that in AC3 Juno tells Desmond that the fourth solution encompassed changing what they were and that Aita volunteered for the experiment. There was a failure and he "was made a prisoner of the machines" which I think means that he could not have survived without machines anymore.

imported>ParadisecityXO: /* Reincarnation */

2014-09-23T21:17:10Z

Reincarnation

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:17, 23 September 2014
Line 79:		Line 79:
	::::To add to this: Sages are not or do not "become" Aita. To call them reincarnations is probably inaccurate because they are all still individuals with unique personalities, just forged from the same basic dna. They merely ''inherit'' the memories of this ancient First Civilization member, which to some degree influences their lives yes, but they do not need to dominate them - this is evidenced by the fact that John and to a lesser degree Roberts both choose a life in servitude of returning Juno to life; by contrast, Kavanagh does no such thing.{{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 23:46, September 14, 2014 (UTC)		::::To add to this: Sages are not or do not "become" Aita. To call them reincarnations is probably inaccurate because they are all still individuals with unique personalities, just forged from the same basic dna. They merely ''inherit'' the memories of this ancient First Civilization member, which to some degree influences their lives yes, but they do not need to dominate them - this is evidenced by the fact that John and to a lesser degree Roberts both choose a life in servitude of returning Juno to life; by contrast, Kavanagh does no such thing.{{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 23:46, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

	::::It must be a complex DNA system for (2) sages to be born in the same decade (sometimes), then come back after a few centuries. Also how the Mayans and Aztecs came to hold him in high regard while he was worshiped as Hades and Pluto in the Greco-Roman world. [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 21:16, September 23, 2014 (UTC)		::::It must be a complex DNA system for (2) sages to be born in the same decade (sometimes), then come back after a few centuries. Also how the Mayans and Aztecs came to hold him in high regard while he was worshiped as Hades and Pluto in the Greco-Roman world (and since he built the Observatory in Jamaica). [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 21:16, September 23, 2014 (UTC)

imported>ParadisecityXO: /* Reincarnation */

2014-09-23T21:16:06Z

Reincarnation

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:16, 23 September 2014
Line 78:		Line 78:

	::::To add to this: Sages are not or do not "become" Aita. To call them reincarnations is probably inaccurate because they are all still individuals with unique personalities, just forged from the same basic dna. They merely ''inherit'' the memories of this ancient First Civilization member, which to some degree influences their lives yes, but they do not need to dominate them - this is evidenced by the fact that John and to a lesser degree Roberts both choose a life in servitude of returning Juno to life; by contrast, Kavanagh does no such thing.{{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 23:46, September 14, 2014 (UTC)		::::To add to this: Sages are not or do not "become" Aita. To call them reincarnations is probably inaccurate because they are all still individuals with unique personalities, just forged from the same basic dna. They merely ''inherit'' the memories of this ancient First Civilization member, which to some degree influences their lives yes, but they do not need to dominate them - this is evidenced by the fact that John and to a lesser degree Roberts both choose a life in servitude of returning Juno to life; by contrast, Kavanagh does no such thing.{{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 23:46, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

			::::It must be a complex DNA system for (2) sages to be born in the same decade (sometimes), then come back after a few centuries. Also how the Mayans and Aztecs came to hold him in high regard while he was worshiped as Hades and Pluto in the Greco-Roman world. [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 21:16, September 23, 2014 (UTC)

imported>Crookandcharlatan: /* Reincarnation */

2014-09-14T23:47:15Z

Reincarnation

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:47, 15 September 2014
Line 72:		Line 72:
	:::But that's what I was asking earlier, if certain men can become Aita incarnate at point of conception, then how were both Kavanagh and Roberts Aita at the same time? [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 23:38, September 14, 2014 (UTC)		:::But that's what I was asking earlier, if certain men can become Aita incarnate at point of conception, then how were both Kavanagh and Roberts Aita at the same time? [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 23:38, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

	::::magic, lol		::::magic, lol
	::::No, seriously, we don't know. We don't know the limits of this reincarnation, so there's no reason to question there being two Sages at once. There was probably at least a dozen at any given time. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 23:45, September 14, 2014 (UTC)		::::No, seriously, we don't know. We don't know the limits of this reincarnation, so there's no reason to question there being two Sages at once. There was probably at least a dozen at any given time. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 23:45, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

	::::It's not certain men, it's potentially every human being that can be overwritten into a clone of Aita. (Yikes.) Nothing precludes more than one Sage existing at a time, which was my original point. --[[User:Alientraveller\|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller\|talk]]) 23:43, September 14, 2014 (UTC)		::::It's not certain men, it's potentially every human being that can be overwritten into a clone of Aita. (Yikes.) Nothing precludes more than one Sage existing at a time, which was my original point. --[[User:Alientraveller\|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller\|talk]]) 23:43, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

	::::To add to this: Sages are not or do not "become" Aita. To call them reincarnations is probably inaccurate because they are all still individuals with unique personalities, just forged from the same basic dna. They merely ''inherit'' the memories of this ancient First Civilization member, which to some degree influences their lives yes, but they ~~does~~ not need to dominate them - this is evidenced by the fact that John and to a lesser degree Roberts both choose a life in servitude of returning Juno to life; by contrast, Kavanagh does no such thing.{{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 23:46, September 14, 2014 (UTC)		::::To add to this: Sages are not or do not "become" Aita. To call them reincarnations is probably inaccurate because they are all still individuals with unique personalities, just forged from the same basic dna. They merely ''inherit'' the memories of this ancient First Civilization member, which to some degree influences their lives yes, but they do not need to dominate them - this is evidenced by the fact that John and to a lesser degree Roberts both choose a life in servitude of returning Juno to life; by contrast, Kavanagh does no such thing.{{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 23:46, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

imported>Crookandcharlatan: /* Reincarnation */ will you guys let me make this edit? >.<

2014-09-14T23:46:37Z

Reincarnation: will you guys let me make this edit? >.<

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:46, 15 September 2014
Line 76:		Line 76:

	::::It's not certain men, it's potentially every human being that can be overwritten into a clone of Aita. (Yikes.) Nothing precludes more than one Sage existing at a time, which was my original point. --[[User:Alientraveller\|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller\|talk]]) 23:43, September 14, 2014 (UTC)		::::It's not certain men, it's potentially every human being that can be overwritten into a clone of Aita. (Yikes.) Nothing precludes more than one Sage existing at a time, which was my original point. --[[User:Alientraveller\|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller\|talk]]) 23:43, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

			::::To add to this: Sages are not or do not "become" Aita. To call them reincarnations is probably inaccurate because they are all still individuals with unique personalities, just forged from the same basic dna. They merely ''inherit'' the memories of this ancient First Civilization member, which to some degree influences their lives yes, but they does not need to dominate them - this is evidenced by the fact that John and to a lesser degree Roberts both choose a life in servitude of returning Juno to life; by contrast, Kavanagh does no such thing.{{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 23:46, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

imported>The Crimson Eagle: /* Reincarnation */ If I get one more edit-conflict, someone will get hurt.

2014-09-14T23:45:28Z

Reincarnation: If I get one more edit-conflict, someone will get hurt.

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:45, 15 September 2014
Line 71:		Line 71:

	:::But that's what I was asking earlier, if certain men can become Aita incarnate at point of conception, then how were both Kavanagh and Roberts Aita at the same time? [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 23:38, September 14, 2014 (UTC)		:::But that's what I was asking earlier, if certain men can become Aita incarnate at point of conception, then how were both Kavanagh and Roberts Aita at the same time? [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 23:38, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

			::::magic, lol
			::::No, seriously, we don't know. We don't know the limits of this reincarnation, so there's no reason to question there being two Sages at once. There was probably at least a dozen at any given time. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 23:45, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

	::::It's not certain men, it's potentially every human being that can be overwritten into a clone of Aita. (Yikes.) Nothing precludes more than one Sage existing at a time, which was my original point. --[[User:Alientraveller\|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller\|talk]]) 23:43, September 14, 2014 (UTC)		::::It's not certain men, it's potentially every human being that can be overwritten into a clone of Aita. (Yikes.) Nothing precludes more than one Sage existing at a time, which was my original point. --[[User:Alientraveller\|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller\|talk]]) 23:43, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

imported>Alientraveller: /* Reincarnation */

2014-09-14T23:43:39Z

Reincarnation

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:43, 15 September 2014
Line 71:		Line 71:

	:::But that's what I was asking earlier, if certain men can become Aita incarnate at point of conception, then how were both Kavanagh and Roberts Aita at the same time? [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 23:38, September 14, 2014 (UTC)		:::But that's what I was asking earlier, if certain men can become Aita incarnate at point of conception, then how were both Kavanagh and Roberts Aita at the same time? [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 23:38, September 14, 2014 (UTC)
			::::It's not certain men, it's potentially every human being that can be overwritten into a clone of Aita. (Yikes.) Nothing precludes more than one Sage existing at a time, which was my original point. --[[User:Alientraveller\|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller\|talk]]) 23:43, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:32, 6 December 2021
Line 8:		Line 8:
	If you collect all messages in a bottle in ''AC4'', the "The Sage" database entry gets updated with more background info on the Sages. I'm currently having breakfast and catching up on my TV shows, but after that I'll write out the updated version here on the wiki. If you linger for or come back in about an hour, I think it should be up. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 10:34, November 21, 2013 (UTC)		If you collect all messages in a bottle in ''AC4'', the "The Sage" database entry gets updated with more background info on the Sages. I'm currently having breakfast and catching up on my TV shows, but after that I'll write out the updated version here on the wiki. If you linger for or come back in about an hour, I think it should be up. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 10:34, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

	Take a look [[Database~~/People (AC4BF):"The Sage"~~\|here]]. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 11:19, November 21, 2013 (UTC)		Take a look [[Database\|here]]. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 11:19, November 21, 2013 (UTC)
	:AC4 doesn't claim Aita volunteered for anything, as far as I'm aware. It appears that this 'transference' (read: cloning) took place ''after'' his death, and was an act completely independent of the Solutions. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 11:33, November 21, 2013 (UTC)		:AC4 doesn't claim Aita volunteered for anything, as far as I'm aware. It appears that this 'transference' (read: cloning) took place ''after'' his death, and was an act completely independent of the Solutions. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 11:33, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Line 56:		Line 56:
	== Reincarnation ==		== Reincarnation ==

	How could Roberts be the reincarnation of Aita if Aita's previous incarnation, Tom Kanavagh died in 1706 (Roberts was alive during this time)? [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 14:03, September 12, 2014 (UTC)		How could Roberts be the reincarnation of Aita if Aita's previous incarnation, Tom Kanavagh died in 1706 (Roberts was alive during this time)? [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 14:03, September 12, 2014 (UTC)
	:Well it's a randomized process because every human is carrying Aita's DNA. So there could be more than one Sage. --[[User:Alientraveller\|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller\|talk]]) 15:53, September 12, 2014 (UTC)		:Well it's a randomized process because every human is carrying Aita's DNA. So there could be more than one Sage. --[[User:Alientraveller\|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller\|talk]]) 15:53, September 12, 2014 (UTC)

	:Every human? I thought one in every ten million (I think) humans are decsended from the First Civilization. ~~And~~ how comes in 75000 years (or at least 4000 years of recorded history), there have only been 8 confirmed sages? [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 15:08, September 13, 2014 (UTC)		:Every human? I thought one in every ten million (I think) humans are decsended from the First Civilization. And how comes in 75000 years (or at least 4000 years of recorded history), there have only been 8 confirmed sages? [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 15:08, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

	::William was referring to the number of people whose high concentration of First Civ genes would allow them to wield Pieces of Eden (contrast Ezio and Leonardo with Niccolo and Mario before the Battle of Forli). Juno inserted Aita's genetic code as junk DNA into the human genome, it was not the result of interbreeding. Furthermore, [[Abstergo Entertainment]] noted the number of Sages was probably higher than the merely recorded seven mentioned at the start at the game (as we later discover). Perhaps we don't express these points clearly enough in our [[Sages]] article? --[[User:Alientraveller\|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller\|talk]]) 15:38, September 13, 2014 (UTC)		::William was referring to the number of people whose high concentration of First Civ genes would allow them to wield Pieces of Eden (contrast Ezio and Leonardo with Niccolo and Mario before the Battle of Forli). Juno inserted Aita's genetic code as junk DNA into the human genome, it was not the result of interbreeding. Furthermore, [[Abstergo Entertainment]] noted the number of Sages was probably higher than the merely recorded seven mentioned at the start at the game (as we later discover). Perhaps we don't express these points clearly enough in our [[Sages]] article? --[[User:Alientraveller\|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller\|talk]]) 15:38, September 13, 2014 (UTC)
Line 65:		Line 65:
	::One in ten million has enough concentration of First Civilization DNA to effectively use the Pieces of Eden. Everyone has potential to use Eagle Vision, and everyone can be overwritten by Aita's DNA at conception. --[[User:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" face="OCR A" size="4">Kainzorus Prime</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" size="6">⚜</font>]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#4C99A6"><sup>Walkie-talkie</sup></font>]] 15:40, September 13, 2014 (UTC)		::One in ten million has enough concentration of First Civilization DNA to effectively use the Pieces of Eden. Everyone has potential to use Eagle Vision, and everyone can be overwritten by Aita's DNA at conception. --[[User:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" face="OCR A" size="4">Kainzorus Prime</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#7575DB" size="6">⚜</font>]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime\|<font color="#4C99A6"><sup>Walkie-talkie</sup></font>]] 15:40, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

	::If that were true, then how come only a few select people can use Eagle Vision while most people in the world can't? ~~And~~ only sages look like Aita (how does this genetic code work if different people of different nations can become Aita incarnate; Tom being a Boston native and Roberts a Welsh)? ~~One~~ might think all humans are related and apparently share the DNA of the Greco-Roman god of the underworld. [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 22:13, September 14, 2014 (UTC)		::If that were true, then how come only a few select people can use Eagle Vision while most people in the world can't? And only sages look like Aita (how does this genetic code work if different people of different nations can become Aita incarnate; Tom being a Boston native and Roberts a Welsh)? One might think all humans are related and apparently share the DNA of the Greco-Roman god of the underworld. [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 22:13, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

	:::Here's a quote from Ms. Read, which should clear up your issue regarding Eagle Vision: ''"Every man and woman on this Earth has in them a kind of intuition hidden deep away. Most never find it. Others it takes years to tease out. But for a rare few it comes as natural as breathing."'' The rare few being our protagonists, obviously.		:::Here's a quote from Ms. Read, which should clear up your issue regarding Eagle Vision: ''"Every man and woman on this Earth has in them a kind of intuition hidden deep away. Most never find it. Others it takes years to tease out. But for a rare few it comes as natural as breathing."'' The rare few being our protagonists, obviously.
Line 71:		Line 71:
	:::The reason everybody can become a reincarnation of Aita is because Juno inserted genetic code as junk DNA into the human genome (this is copy paste from what Alientraveller pointed out two posts above btw). This means that if the circumstances are right, the junk DNA of Aita can overwrite the DNA of a child at the point of conception. We all carry our own DNA, but within that DNA exists the potential for our offspring to become a reincarnation of Aita. That child will then be born with the memories of Aita, but is otherwise a normal human being. I don't think they inherit Aita's personality, as Kavanagh never seems to become malevolent towards other humans the way Roberts and John do.{{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 22:21, September 14, 2014 (UTC)		:::The reason everybody can become a reincarnation of Aita is because Juno inserted genetic code as junk DNA into the human genome (this is copy paste from what Alientraveller pointed out two posts above btw). This means that if the circumstances are right, the junk DNA of Aita can overwrite the DNA of a child at the point of conception. We all carry our own DNA, but within that DNA exists the potential for our offspring to become a reincarnation of Aita. That child will then be born with the memories of Aita, but is otherwise a normal human being. I don't think they inherit Aita's personality, as Kavanagh never seems to become malevolent towards other humans the way Roberts and John do.{{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 22:21, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

	:::But that's what I was asking earlier, if certain men can become Aita incarnate at point of conception, then how were both Kavanagh and Roberts Aita at the same time? [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 23:38, September 14, 2014 (UTC)		:::But that's what I was asking earlier, if certain men can become Aita incarnate at point of conception, then how were both Kavanagh and Roberts Aita at the same time? [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 23:38, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

	::::magic, lol		::::magic, lol
Line 80:		Line 80:
	::::To add to this: Sages are not or do not "become" Aita. To call them reincarnations is probably inaccurate because they are all still individuals with unique personalities, just forged from the same basic dna. They merely ''inherit'' the memories of this ancient First Civilization member, which to some degree influences their lives yes, but they do not need to dominate them - this is evidenced by the fact that John and to a lesser degree Roberts both choose a life in servitude of returning Juno to life; by contrast, Kavanagh does no such thing.{{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 23:46, September 14, 2014 (UTC)		::::To add to this: Sages are not or do not "become" Aita. To call them reincarnations is probably inaccurate because they are all still individuals with unique personalities, just forged from the same basic dna. They merely ''inherit'' the memories of this ancient First Civilization member, which to some degree influences their lives yes, but they do not need to dominate them - this is evidenced by the fact that John and to a lesser degree Roberts both choose a life in servitude of returning Juno to life; by contrast, Kavanagh does no such thing.{{User:Crookandcharlatan/sig}} 23:46, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

	::::It must be a complex DNA system for (2) sages to be born in the same decade (sometimes), then come back after a few centuries. ~~Also~~ how the Mayans and Aztecs came to hold him in high regard while he was worshiped as Hades and Pluto in the Greco-Roman world (and since he built the Observatory in Jamaica). [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 21:16, September 23, 2014 (UTC)		::::It must be a complex DNA system for (2) sages to be born in the same decade (sometimes), then come back after a few centuries. Also how the Mayans and Aztecs came to hold him in high regard while he was worshiped as Hades and Pluto in the Greco-Roman world (and since he built the Observatory in Jamaica). [[User:ParadisecityXO\|ParadisecityXO]] ([[User talk:ParadisecityXO\|talk]]) 21:16, September 23, 2014 (UTC)