Talk:Altaïr Ibn-La'Ahad's Codex

2011-04-04T06:41:28Z

95.209.243.244: /* 30 pages? */

can we link or merge these with the very descriptive history and movements of the codex i worte up earlier titled "The Codex of Altair"?

I was wondering if this younger Assassin Altair send out to investigate Ghengis Khan could be one of his sons. This could possibly be the one how sparked the bloodline that lead to subjekt 16. beeing located in the far east, 16's ancestors also could be the ones who gave the Codex to Marco Polo through Kublai Khan (who could even be one of 16's ancestors).

Randomnutjob: Ok, I have a theory. What if Altair is a prominent antagonist in the modern day?
I mean, due to a nihilistic fear of death, it's heavily implied that he looked into the apple
of eden again in order to find out how to become immortal. (at least, in an age-based way) If he
used the apple for such an end, what's to say that he, A. Wasn't corrupted by the apple's influence
after using it for something so large and, B. Didn't find a way to become immortal at that point?
I know he's a the protagonist of the first game, but he's still human and isn't immune to the apple's
corruption, as noted in the codex.

Take a look at page 17 of the codexes - Pillars so tall they seem to pierce the heavens- Skyscrapers? Ground rumbled and shuddered- earthquake reference, Mountains split and crack- not sure on this one but seems something that affects the world geographically according to the end. Great metal towers splintered- Reference to buildings again, possibly New York or somewhere in the U.S with tall towers which might have collapsed. This information is useful in predicting the plot of ACIII

[[Special:Contributions/122.164.118.244|122.164.118.244]] 16:36, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

Connections- All the mothers of the great assassins are called Maria? Just a theory though, Jesus' mother is the Virgin Mary, called Maria in Europe, then Maria Auditore? Maria Thorpe? These three Marias influence the story of the Assassins, possibly making Altair's child even more powerful than Altair himself, transcening the height of power

16:44, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
*Er, I'm pretty sure the Virgin Mary is known as; well, ''Mary'' in Europe. She is here in the UK. Besides, it's OR, so it's not going in the article. '''''[[User:Jasca Ducato|Jasca Ducato]]''''' [[User talk:Jasca Ducato|Council Chamber]] [[Special:Contributions/Jasca_Ducato|Assassination record]] 17:02, February 25, 2010 (UTC

*Well, in Germany she actually is known as "Jungfrau Maria".
*Nor only in Germany (it is an exception) but every single latin language we say Maria. In french it becomes Marie. Portuguese Italian Spanish they all say Maria

== Codex 17 section ==

There is something VERY wrong with the information appended to the Codex #17. It claims that Altair's vision is that which is shown in 'The Truth' video. However, the vision is actually of the last geological event which destroyed most life on earth (the switching of the magnetic poles). I could not change this myself as the page is locked. Could someone please fix codex 17 by removing the last sentence (which is in parenthesis).

Thanks

I can't see any reference to the truth video oO -- [[User:D. Cello|D. Cello]] 15:43, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

The connection I see is what you see in the truth video, though it's not verified. He speaks about metal towers and mountains. Which seem to me is what Adam and Eve are standing on at the end of the video while you see a mountain in the background. So it seems what Altaïr saw was the end of those who came before. -- [[User:Altaïr|Altaïr]] 17:13, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
*Actually, I see nothing explicitly suggesting that his vision had anything to do with the last geological event. I also see nothing to indicate it has anything to do with the 'Truth' video. Most likely, I think it's a prediction of the future, with the metal towers simply being skyscrapers or similar. '''''[[User:Jasca Ducato|Jasca Ducato]]''''' [[User talk:Jasca Ducato|Council Chamber]] [[Special:Contributions/Jasca_Ducato|Assassination record]] 16:40, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
*Well obviously he saw some great disaster. The coincidence though is that he speaks of Metal Towers as well as mountains. Again to me that seems he's talking about what is seen at the end of the truth video, though you don't see it happening of course. It's possibly also he saw the future... There's no clear evidence of this, it could be either way -- [[User:Altaïr|Altaïr]] 18:04, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
*Personally when I first read the codex page in question, I too thought that it was about what had happened in the past, and there are many people who have concluded that. And clearly, the makers of the game would know this would be an assumption. If it would be the future Altair was seeing, then you have to conclude that the world will end. So in which case, what is the point of Desmond? Cause nothing that has been seen was changed. But as it is, we don't know either way, so either we should say 'some of the possible theories are....' or just leave it completely until something is known. But personally I think it is pretty obvious it was the past Altair saw. He saw a vision of how 'they' died, just as Subject 16 saw how the Apple was taken - [[User:Maria Thorpe|Maria Thorpe]] March 13 2010 (UTC)
**the problem with the arguement that Al was seeing the events depicted in 'The Truth' is that [[Subject Sixteen]] only see these events in a genetic memory, brought on by his time in the [[Animus]]. So there is no merit to the arguement that he is seeing a past event. Besides, 'The Truth' doesn't depict anything getting destroyed whatsoever (besides a glass window), so it's shouldn't even be mentioned at all. '''Plus''', it's OR and cannot be sourced, so it's not going in at all. '''''[[User:Jasca Ducato|Jasca Ducato]]''''' [[User talk:Jasca Ducato|Council Chamber]] [[Special:Contributions/Jasca_Ducato|Assassination record]] 04:11, March 14, 2010 (UTC)
*OP here. I just thought I'd clarify my meaning. Altair's vision describes 4 things, pillars of flame, the ground shuddering, mountains cracking and metal towers splintering. Some of those things are fairly straightforward. The earth shuddering and mountains splitting is simply and earthquake and volcano. The metal towers could be A) the facilities built by those who came before (in the past) or B) the sky scrapers of modern man (the present). The pillars of fire could mean anything, but considering the context of the Assassin's Creed universe I'm persuaded to believe that they refer to what would be experience in the event that the earth lost its magnetisms. The Sun's radiation would ionise the gas in the atmosphere and cause it to glow like the Aurora (the radiation would also set just about everything on the face of the earth on fire, killing all life in the process). This is also how Minerva described the events of the past, saying that while Humans and her kind where fighting they did not notice the geological event until it was too late. That's why it killed so many people (screaming, etc). This is why I believe that the imagine shown to Altair by the apple as documented in Codex #17 is an image of the geological event (which happened sometime after the humans waged war upon Those Who Came Before) rather than an image of the future or of 'The Truth' video. On a slightly related note, it's worth adding that even while the Earth's magnetic poles are shifting the earth still maintains its magnetic field, so there is no real danger to life on earth.
*Erm, when the Earth's magnetic poles ''do'' switch, anything utilising said magnetic field (compasses, GPS, Digital surveying, Aeroplanes, pretty much anything electronic) will be screwed. I think that's a fair amount of danger to life on earth. Not to mention all the natural damage that'll be caused. '''''[[User:Jasca Ducato|Jasca Ducato]]''''' [[User talk:Jasca Ducato|Council Chamber]] [[Special:Contributions/Jasca_Ducato|Assassination record]] 10:23, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
*Your theory does make sense, anonymous, but it's a theory =/. An encyclopedia is comprised of facts, while theories remain on the talk pages to be added if proven right. Know what I mean? -- [[User:D. Cello|D. Cello]] 23:33, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

== The Emblem on p. 25 ==

What is that emblem on the bottom of the picture exactly? [[User:PassiveNeoluna|PassiveNeoluna]] 23:26, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

*Likely it's her family crest. -- [[User:Altaïr|Altaïr]] 09:11, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
Umm well I was wondering more about the symbol of the emblem, like it is a sword with vines, A sword with a winged hilt, a cross with lions, a cross with fish? [[User:PassiveNeoluna|PassiveNeoluna]] 21:51, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

== 30 pages? ==

When playing Assassins creed Bloodlines you see clips of Altaïr writing his thoughts and experiences in a book, these scenes might be Altaïr writing his Codex. That made me think, if the book contains episodes thoughts and discoveries from his whole life, 30 pages seams little. But when reading the history of how Ezio's family gained the Codex, and what his grandfather did to it it seams rather possible that there is more pages and they were lost when the pirates took the cargo. also many of the pages has no connection, it seams like plug outs from a deeper work.

Wouldn't it be possible that there were more pages but they simply was lost?

[[User:Mr.Pheenox|Mr.Pheenox]] 19:12, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
:The map in AC2 isn't missing anything. It is possible, just highly improbable. Ooor, there were 30 main pages and side notes in other pages. -- [[User:D. Cello|D. Cello]] 19:45, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed there aren't more then 30 pages in game, im more speaking hypothetically :)

[[User:Mr.Pheenox|Mr.Pheenox]] 19:57, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, would it seem more probable that only the pages containing the map were saved (or revealed to be saved) and given to the Assassin's? The other missing pages either lost or hidden and thought to be lost? There is evidence that there are missing pages, because the work is incomplete and fragmented. Just a theory, but is it not valid? [[User:Dark Scion|Dark Scion]] 21:15, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
:Nope. There is only thirty pages to the Codex, get over it. --'''''Jasca Ducato''''' Council Chamber Assassination record 10:42, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
:
:Then please explain the fragmented pages. --Dark Scion 12:42, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
I have to agree with Pheenox and Scion; there may only be 30 codex pages in the game, which were the 30 main ones there were required to see the picture, but most, if not all of the codexes don't make sense together. Some continue a thought from a previous one, but most of them are a single page that doesn't follow along with the rest of the codex. A.J. two 12:51, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
:There aren't any "fragmented" pages. The Codex is written like a diary would be, it's not a novel or anything like that, it's a collection of his thoughts. There are only thirty Codex pages, full stop. We know this because we have a complete map at the end of the game on the Codex wall, and the idea that Ezio just happened to find the exact pages that make up the map, ignoring the rest, or that only thirty pages were recovered, and the remainder were not, is simply stupid. --'''''Jasca Ducato''''' Council Chamber Assassination record 13:39, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
:
:Almost every single non-image page is left trailing off into other thoughts. Since it is a place to write down his thoughts why would he not complete the topic he was writing about? The pages also have little synergy, "fragmented", they don't fit together... as if they had been torn from different parts of the book. And of course it would be stupid to think Ezio only found pages with maps, how did the codex pages get seperated? because they were split apart! We think the "missing pages" were hidden or lost at the time of separation and the pages with the map were deliberately saved and scattered. --[[User:Dark Scion|Dark Scion]] 19:56, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
::Regardless of what you think, the game says there are only thirty pages, so there are only thirty pages; discussing it here won't change that. As for not completing his thoughts, if you read them carefully you will see he did. He is writing as he thinks, for example, to quote Page 11 ''"Al Mualim spoke of Jesus as a real person - a mortal who had mastered the arts of manipulation. But what if he was wrong? If these men are real - and if they have walked amongst us many times before - does it mean they'll come again? Perhaps they are here now? So many questions, and every day, even more..."'' He is asking himself question he doesn't know the answers to yet, so how is he meant to write them down? This is the same for all your "fragmented" pages. --'''''[[User:Jasca Ducato|Jasca Ducato]]''''' [[User talk:Jasca Ducato|Council Chamber]] [[Special:Contributions/Jasca_Ducato|Assassination record]] 20:05, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
::
::Ok you are not getting the point. Yes there are only 30 pages in the game. Duh. We, not I, are talking about the story, the AC universe, the things not mentioned in the game, yada yada ya. Well now that THAT is cleared up, (Inhale) there is no evidence that contradicts our theory, and it can not be condemned OR proven because of the lack of evidence given in the game, therefore, please get your panties out of a wad, calm down it is just a theory, and please forgive the childish insults.(Exhale) We thought they were amusing... --[[User:Dark Scion|Dark Scion]] 23:25, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
:::It may just be a theory, but it's a theory which has little or no basis to work on. I've told you how the Codex has been written, I've provided explanations for everything you've brought up, you need to accept that I've pretty much disproved your theory. Plus, it can be considered OR because you're the one making it up, the game says there is only 30 Codex pages, so that's all there is, end of story, period; and finally, I don't need you to tell me to get my "panties out of a wad" and calm down. I have been, and remain, calm… all I've been doing is disproving your theory, but I do not appreciate you trying to make it seem like I've got nothing better to do then argue a point. --'''''[[User:Jasca Ducato|Jasca Ducato]]''''' [[User talk:Jasca Ducato|Council Chamber]] [[Special:Contributions/Jasca_Ducato|Assassination record]] 01:20, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
:::
:::Ahh... the insults... sorry. We apologize. It is understood there are only 30 pages in the game. Again, We, not I, are talking about the story, the AC universe, the things not mentioned in the game. There is no evidence that contradicts our theory, and it can not be condemned OR proven because of the lack of evidence given in the game, therefore, you have not disproved our theory.--[[User:Dark Scion|Dark Scion]] 04:23, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

The question if theres more pages might have been solved..

I quote 
"The Original Codex written by the hand of Altaïr: a quality 60 pages book revealing all the history of the Assassins and presenting the artworks of Assassin’s Creed Brotherhood."

Found on http://shop.ubi.com/store/ubiemea/da_DK/pd/productID.197928000

When the collectors edition come out, we can check if the 30 pages from game one are in it.

(i forgot my signature thats the edit)

[[User:Mr.Pheenox|Mr.Pheenox]] 16:35, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

It says the book includes artwork of assassin's creed brotherhood and the history of the assassins. So the number is not 60 pages as the other pages do not involve the Codex, they're just included in that book. [[User:Altaïr|Altaïr]] 18:41, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Ah.. i was a little to fast when i read the details [[User:Mr.Pheenox|Mr.Pheenox]] 18:40, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Alright everybody, i get what you both are trying to say, but i agree with there only being 30 codex pages. The stories may not make to much sense, but it is Altair's thinking. You should read the pages carefully and think of each one befor going to the next one. I think it makes sense and i agree with there only being 30 pages. There is one thing i would like to get answers to, Who are the statues. and did Altair build the manson in Monterrigoni, and why did he put those stautes up in the hidden basement. I would just like to get the stories of the statues, and of Altair's kids. How many did he have, I keep thinking that the codex pages are saying that he had 6 kids, and i thought that the statues were of his kids, but that doesnt really make any sense becasue they are all from different time periods. Anybody have anything to share about the statues. ~~PepticCaesar~~

I know it is a long time ago since last there was written in this topic, but i re-read it cos i got a mail telling there had been edited something in it. and after reading it all i couldnt stop thinking, i know that theres only 30 pages to the codex, but still i like to ask the questions, as i find it intresting to discuss. So dont look upon this as me not being able to accept theres only 30 pages. now the questions: 
- We all agree its a diary of his thoughts and experiences, Now why would you only write 30 pages of diary over the course of a life time? wouldnt it make more sence that you wrote something every other day? that is at least the point of a diary. Or did Altaïr have seperate diaries? in Assassins Creed: Bloodlines (psp) he writes on a Diary pretty often... (i havnt completed the game a friend of mine happened to have it and i've seen glimps of it) 
- When the ancestor to Altaïr gets ambushed by pirates/templars he rips off the spine and (of what i remember) hides the pages on the ship. now ripping off a spine of a book leaves a chaos of pages on the floor... or that is at least my experience, that and seperating the pages is an action that could easily make pages go lost. 
- if there indeed were more pages, what would then stop people from throwing away the unimportant pages A.k.sthe pages with out a map piece on? 
These are some questions i would like to throw into the discussion. I agree that there is only 30 pages in the game, that it would be absurd that the 30 pages with the map on just happens to fall into Ezio's possession. I agree that since the game never mentions anything about 30+ pages.. there are only 30 pages, and then some might find it silly to discuss if there are more pages.. and we who do should just "get over it", but i find it intresting and intertaining to see the different arguements up against each other.[[Special:Contributions/95.209.243.244|95.209.243.244]] 06:41, April 4, 2011 (UTC)

== Page 11 ==

So this is the situation: got 29 pages, all Viewpoints and no remaining mark, believe me i've looked the map of every city, there is no mark there. Here i read the 11th page is North Santa Maria Novella, i've found a couple of places where codex pages used to be, but they are all empty. The thing is that i remember at certain point (near the end) opening a box and no "you've found a new codex page". I would really appreciate your help, i've been struggling for three days now, i'm starting to loose some hair here.

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Talk:Altaïr Ibn-La'Ahad's Codex