Talk:Ratonhnhaké:ton

2013-09-04T07:39:23Z

85.72.77.227:

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==The Wedding==
Conner never talk to with Lyle White and Lance O'Donnell after the wedding at all because I look for vidoe of this and find nothing.[[User:Tyraj|Tyraj]] ([[User talk:Tyraj|talk]]) 17:37, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

: He did, it was one of the interactive conversations. [[User:Amnestyyy|'''Nesty''']] [[User_Talk:Amnestyyy|Contact me!]] 17:37, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

== Connor Meeting Aveline ==

How come we can't play as Connor on the 360/PS3 for his New York misson with Aveline? I mean, we can play it from his point of view on the Vita, so shouldn't it be the same for the major consoles? [[User:TranquilTempest|''TranquilTempest'']][[User_talk:TranquilTempest|Qu'est-ce que c'est?]] 08:34, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

: No? It's likely between Sequences 8 and 9, or 9 and 10. {{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 15:53, January 26, 2013 (UTC)
: No, that doesn't happen. I've played through the game twice now, and she's seen the walkthroughs. [[User:SupremeAssassin|''Supreme Master Assassin'']][[User_talk:SupremeAssassin|O Mentoras]] 15:59, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'm afraid that's a mystery I've been trying to solve for the longest time... and well... it has no answer, other than to say "We're Ubisoft. We do things like that." [[User:SupremeAssassin|''Supreme Master Assassin'']][[User_talk:SupremeAssassin|O Mentoras]] 15:59, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

What are you talking about? I mean that the memory in ''Liberation'' is likely between two memory sequences in ''III'', and is therefore irrelevant to the plot...

PS: Please don't move my messages; I was replying to Tranquil, not you. {{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 16:06, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Well you weren't being specific so I was forced to improvise. [[User:SupremeAssassin|''Supreme Master Assassin'']][[User_talk:SupremeAssassin|O Mentoras]] 16:20, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

== Race ==

Shouldn't Connor's race read Native-american/ European America. After all although he grew up native american he is in fact half of each race.

[[Special:Contributions/70.197.165.163|70.197.165.163]] 15:15, February 2, 2013 (UTC})

He's Half Mohawk, Half English. Haytham was English and Ziio was Mohawk. Not much else to it to be honest.{{User:Trever09/sig}} 15:39, February 2, 2013 (UTC)

::He and Kaniehtí:io is half Mohawk and Half English, NOT their whole race. Although if his race were half English, there are no sources to confirm it as much as I know. I'll ask Sima. [[User:Altaïr Skywalker 47|'''Altaïr Skywalker 47''']] [[User talk:Altaïr Skywalker 47|'''Pigeon Coop''']] 10:23, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
:::The fact that he is Haytham's son is confirmation enough. Haytham is described as being English, so his son's race ''is'' Native-American/English. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 11:08, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

::::That is what I said. I also said that his mother's ancestors (the race) were not half English. [[User:Altaïr Skywalker 47|'''Altaïr Skywalker 47''']] [[User talk:Altaïr Skywalker 47|'''Pigeon Coop''']] 00:25, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

==Romantic life==
Could everybody pleasce stop editing out the Romantic life part because we have Romantic life for all the other charater on here like his father,ezio, and altair and so on as example.[[User:Tyraj|Tyraj]] ([[User talk:Tyraj|talk]]) 00:00, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

While it is true that the other protagonists have romantic life sections, Connor's is not needed because it would just be a long paragraph basically stating that he doesn't have one. So, no, it will be removed. --[[User:Nostalgia AC|'''NOSTALGIA''']] [[User_Talk:Nostalgia AC|TALK]] 01:59, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
:While Connor didn't have a partner during the events of AC3 and TOKW, I think we should still note how he played matchmaker in lieu of having a girlfriend, and that an apprentice and a friend found him attractive. Really, the only reason I want a section because I find "''Norris is trying to-- court... a woman. What do-- you-- women, like... in terms of gifts,''" a really funny quote header. --[[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller|talk]]) 21:45, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

== Alternate timeline ==

Ratonhnhaké:ton's experiences in TOKY should be in the main biography section, not an entirely new one, all of the other characters involved would be because they show no evidence of recalling the events of the main timeline or somehow crossing over the way he did, whereas this is the mainstream Connor in an alternate world in a canon storyline. everything else I've seen with stories like this include it in the main biography unless it's specifically non canon. For example you see it on magneto's page on both his wikipedia and marvel wiki pages, the events of House of M are part of his main biography despite being set in an alternate world.[[User:Gboy4|Gboy4]] ([[User talk:Gboy4|talk]]) 14:24, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

:No. This isn't wikipedia or marvel wiki. We have our own Manual of Style. Abide by it or don't edit at all, else you'll do nothing but be disruptive. --[[User:Kainzorus Prime|Kainzorus Prime]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime|Walkie-talkie]] 15:02, February 21, 2013 (UTC)
::what manual of style?--[[User:Gboy4|Gboy4]] ([[User talk:Gboy4|talk]]) 15:10, February 21, 2013 (UTC)
:::Never mind, found it.--[[User:Gboy4|Gboy4]] ([[User talk:Gboy4|talk]]) 15:20, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

::::Wikipedia handles no set Manual of Style for this sort of occurence, and more characters than just Magneto are part multiple timelines in the Marvel Comics, it would be too messy to list all alternate realities on them otherwise. Connor retaining his consciousness from the main canon bears no relevance on this being part of his biography or not; none of this actually happened in the main canon, so it does not belong among the other things that he ''did'' do in the main canon. Additionally we do not know when exactly Connor and Washington had that encounter with the Apple and ended up in this alternate reality, and where it would fit in the biography. Just making a subsection in the biography immediately jumping into the alternate reality without explaining how Connor got there serves no place among canon info, and that is not comparable to Magneto's involvement in House of M. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 15:21, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

:::::No relevance? he's still personally experiencing it even if no other character is, the story has been stated to be Canon meaning that one way or another it did happen in the main canon as it is still something the mainstream Connor experienced and we know that it happened after the revolution and after Connor killed Charles Lee from what he says. Your point would be true for all of the characters except for Connor.--[[User:Gboy4|Gboy4]] ([[User talk:Gboy4|talk]]) 15:37, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

::::::Ubisoft stating the story to be canon in no way means that it happened in the main canon in one way or another. The canon aspect of this alternate timeline is that Connor is ''experiencing'' it in the real world, not ''doing'' it in the real world. You're just repeating what you said in your first message. In further regards to your remark about the House of M, in that story the characters were physically warped to a new reality (if I recall correctly), not just made to experience it in some dream-like sequence. There is no indication that this DLC takes place after Connor killed Charles Lee and after the revolution has ended, though his remark "I know who my father was" implies that Haytham was already dead. As shown at the start of the DLC, Connor had not shaved his hair like he did before he went to confront Charles Lee, and Washington was still wearing his military uniform. Haytham died in late 1781, which is the same year that was put in the Glyph with Washington holding the Apple. The most logical option would be that the encounter between Connor and Washington with the Apple occured in late 1781 or early to mid 1782, in between Sequence 10 and 11. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 16:03, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

:::::: There is actually, I can't remember what they're called exactly but there are three memory points in the episode that show an image of connor's past, so far. Have found two of them and one of them is of Connor killing Charles. And can you please explain to me how the story being canon doesn't mean it happened in the main canon? And Connor is doing it, whether that means he's doing it in a dream or in another world.--[[User:Gboy4|Gboy4]] ([[User talk:Gboy4|talk]]) 16:29, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Once you get the three lucid memories in the Infamy, you can watch a short clip where Washington is riding to locate Connor. In this scene, Connor is uninjured, but it is not clear as to the exact time. For the time being, seeing we cannot ascertain the exact means of how he comes to be in the alternate timeline, it is much more convenient to keep it seperated until we know. [[User:Slate Vesper|Slate Vesper]] ([[User talk:Slate Vesper|talk]]) 16:36, February 21, 2013 (UTC)
:::::::: Ok you've convinced me, I'll drop it for now.--[[User:Gboy4|Gboy4]] ([[User talk:Gboy4|talk]]) 16:53, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the DLC is canon. However, it being canon does not mean it happens in the same timeline as the events of ACIII. Therefore, we can hardly just put a section in the midst of all the main timeline information in which an ally is suddenly an enemy. It would be too confusing for the people who come to the wiki for information - it would probably even be too confusing for many of our editors. By having a section named "Alternate Timeline" we don't say that the events didn't actually happen. We only say that they happened in a different timeline - which is undeniably true (otherwise Kaniehtí:io could not possibly be alive). Me, Sima, and several others have conferred over it on the IRC and decided it stays the way it is. [[User:Amnestyyy|'''Nesty''']] [[User_Talk:Amnestyyy|Contact me!]] 16:38, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

==aternate time==
If you don't mind me asking but shouldn't the alternate time not be on Ratonhnhake:ton page because this is noncant I mean the plot to the The Tyranny of King Washington epiosdes are on that page well The you know Tyranny of King Washington page mean if people went to read about it they just go to that page I'm just saying.[[User:Tyraj|Tyraj]] ([[User talk:Tyraj|talk]]) 08:46, February 24, 2013 (UTC)

:This has already been discussed right above your message. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 16:59, February 24, 2013 (UTC)

==Birthdate==
but when is connor really born? on some sites it's states 1755, on some it's stated 1756 ..? {{Unsigned|87.151.35.129}}

:Desmond was still reliving the memories in July 1755, during the Braddock Expedition, indicating that the child was not yet conceived at that point. Connor was conceived soon after, and because pregnancy takes around nine months it is impossible for Connor to have been born in 1755. Kanen'tó:kon's database entry also says that he was of the same age as Connor, and his birth date was listed as 1756. So Connor was born in 1756, not 1755.. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 16:59, February 24, 2013 (UTC)

:::That being said, I find it very hard to believe that he was only 4 years old when we first see him and 14 when he leaves the village. Based on appearance, I'd guess around 11 and 19 respectively? [[Special:Contributions/83.177.191.12|83.177.191.12]] 07:50, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

:::Appearances can be misleading. Just consider Claudia, Petruccio and Duccio in ACII... not to even mention IRL. [[User:Sadelyrate|Sadelyrate]] ([[w:c:assassinscreed:User talk:Sadelyrate|siniath]]) 08:19, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

==Connor vs Ratonhnhaké:ton==
When would one use "Connor" vs. "Ratonhnhaké:ton"? I thought that the decision was made to have him as Ratonhnhaké:ton. [[User:2myname1|2myname1]] ([[User talk:2myname1|talk]]) 06:40, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

When he adopts the name, he can be referred to Connor from thereon. That point is where Ratonhnhaké:ton and Achilles travel to Boston and Achilles gives him the name Connor to fit in around the town. [[User:Slate Vesper|Slate Vesper]] ([[User talk:Slate Vesper|talk]]) 08:12, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

What about the bottom sections, the ones about his skills and personality? Should that be Connor or Ratonhnhaké:ton? I would personally prefer Ratonhnhaké:ton, but I'm just curious. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 16:46, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
:A belated responses, admittedly, but this issue still hasn't been resolved. Like Crimson, I think we should be using his birth name in any BtS or non-biographical sections. Any objections to my making the necessary changes? --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 12:23, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
::We shouldn't have to use Ratonhnhaké:ton unless we're referring to his life before he was an Assassin or the alternate timeline where he never became Connor, that's the point of his English name. Otherwise you run risk of making one name seem superior or more correct to the other, like if you change it to "Ratonhnhaké:ton was nominated for Best Character at the VGA Awards" because it makes it seem wrong of them to have referred to him as Connor. --[[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller|talk]]) 12:46, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

==Quote==
May I change the quote to this...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident: Our right to Freedom, our land, and our way of life. We will die for what we believe in; we cannot be stopped. We will never back now, because a life without freedom is not a life worth living. Give us liberty or give us death."

[[User:Awesomekid120|Awesomekid120]] ([[User talk:Awesomekid120|talk]]) 18:16, April 3, 2013 (UTC)Awesomekid1204

:When does Connor say this? -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 18:27, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

::It was in a trailer, but I can't remember which one. But it sounds too 'Murican, I prefer the one we have now. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 18:40, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

I searched for it, and [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z6j6gu0jVI here] it is. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 18:49, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

:Oh, that one... Yeah, I agree with Crimson. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 20:04, April 3, 2013 (UTC)
::Plus, the trailer's aren't a part of the canon. We learned that when the ''Brotherhood'' trailer came out. (''Revelations'' "trailer" was actually the game's introductory video, before anybody points it out.) --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 17:19, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

==Is this the End?==
Someone knows what's going to happen to Connor? Or Ubisoft's going to stop his story and just focus in Edward?
[[User:AnimusHack|AnimusHack]] ([[User talk:AnimusHack|talk]]) 20:31, April 25, 2013 (UTC)
:Such discussion is more relevant to our community forums on the home page than here, but in any event, we'll probably learn who Connor settled with and when he died in future media. --[[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller|talk]]) 20:35, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

we should add the surname Kenway because Ubisoft confirmed that Connor adopted his father surname

Andotrota

:Do you have a source? And sign your posts, please. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 16:49, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

== Connor's Descendants ==

Is it ever confirmed in any type of media that William Miles is Connor's descendant and not Desmond's mother? Sometime in the game, Desmond tells his dad that he (William) can look through Connor's memories himself, but Desmond doesn't even know if that's for certain, he just assumes they're related.[[User:TranquilTempest|''TranquilTempest'']][[User_talk:TranquilTempest|Bonjour]] 02:43, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
:William is Ratonhnhaké:ton's descendant. AC3 and AC4 confirm (and will confirm) this. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 08:50, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
::I do not think so, can you provide a source that ACIII confirms this? I'm not telling that ACIV will not confirm it. [[User:Altaïr Skywalker 47|'''Altaïr Skywalker 47''']] [[User talk:Altaïr Skywalker 47|'''Pigeon Coop''']] 10:17, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
:::To quote Desmond in AC3: ''"Hey, he was your ancestor too. Why don't you hop in the Animus?!"''. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 11:11, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
::::Might've been just a wild guess on Desmond's part. Granted, William doesn't deny it. Still, we might wish to wait for something a bit more definitive than that before we set it in stone. :) [[User:Sadelyrate|Sadelyrate]] ([[w:c:assassinscreed:User talk:Sadelyrate|siniath]]) 14:02, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
:::::I've noticed people here saying we can't be sure because Desmond "might have been guessing". There is nothing to say Desmond doesn't know about his relation to Connor, so we should be assuming it's a "wild guess on [his] part." Basically, Desmond said "he was your ancestor too" so as far as canon is concerned, Desmond is related to Connor through his father. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 16:12, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

::::::While the writers put that line in for a reason, would it be canon too if Desmond said his father was a potato? It is highly likely that William is descended from the Kenways, but there is nothing to imply that Desmond could have known, from an in-universe point of view. Desmond had no prior knowledge of his ancestors. He did not know anything about Haytham and only just expressed his shock at Haytham's reveal as a Templar, and then all of a sudden knows that Haytham is William's ancestor? It does not add up. While we can all ''know'' that William is a Kenway descendant, saying it is 100% confirmed would be the same as saying that Desmond's son exists. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 16:22, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
:::::::I don't see how any of those comparisons you've made make sense. Firstly, we know William is not a potato because, well, he's human; we see that in-game. If Desmond were to call him such it would clearly be wrong, because it's, well, obvious. With regards to his not knowing of his ancestry, just because he was unaware of his links to the Auditores' or Ibn-La'Ahads' doesn't mean he was unaware of the Kenways' (you're making an assumption). Also, there is a difference between knowing who your ancestors are, and what they do. Desmond could well have known ''who'' his ancestor, Connor, was without knowing he was also a member of the Assassins.

:::::::So my point remains; Desmond clearly said that his father was also an ancestor of the Kenways', and as such we have to take that as canon. (Whether he turns out in future media to be correct or not, is currently besides the point.) Making assumptions that Desmond is ignorant of his lineage, or that his father is somehow related to a potato is ridiculous. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 09:01, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

::::::::Similarly, you're making an assumption that what Desmond says, while ''agitated'', is fact. Both stances are currently just as valid. [[User:Sadelyrate|Sadelyrate]] ([[w:c:assassinscreed:User talk:Sadelyrate|siniath]]) 09:38, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::I am making no such assumption, Desmond clearly says ""Hey, he was your ancestor too." Whether he was agitated, annoyed, or whatever else is besides the point. Until a media comes out explicitly contradicting that statement, William is for all intent and purposes a descendant of Connor. Whether I personally think that to be true or not is besides the point. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 10:15, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
::::::::::You are taking my example out of context, and ignoring the in-universe stance to be completely in favor of the out-of-universe one. Then by all means, make an article on 'Desmond Miles' son', because Subject 16 explicitly mentioned him. ''His'' state of mind would be irrelevant as well then. Also, Desmond ''was'' unaware of the Kenways, as he relied on Shaun to provide additional information on them. Nothing even ''remotely'' implies that Desmond had knowledge of the Kenways. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 12:28, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::::Except for the fact that we know Desmond does not have a son since he died before he had the chance to produce one, (certainly not one that we are made aware of), and the ramblings of a gibbering computer programme and not to be completely trusted. I don't see how Desmond saying "he is your ancestor too" can be taken as being OOU. It's a simple statement that, without any contradictory evidence, has to be taken as canon. Whether Desmond was, or was not aware of any of his ancestors does not change the fact he said that. You need to stop making excuses for him and accept that William is related to the Kenways. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 14:18, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
:Is it so important to note William is a descendant of Connor when there's a 50% chance he's also descended from Aquilus, Altair and Ezio? Or to note that on Desmond's mum's article? We all know it's likely they're ancestors of William because they're all ancestors of Desmond. --[[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller|talk]]) 22:15, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

::There is nothing to contradict that Desmond does not have a son either. He may have sired one unknowingly before he was captured. That 'gibbering computer programme' conveniently also mentioned the Sun, nothing happened with that, I suppose. Obviously Desmond does not have a son, but my point is that because one character says something it does not make it true. I don't ''need'' to 'accept' anything. I will 'accept' it when it is explicitly stated, within a context that ''makes sense''. You 'need' to start reading what I said when I never said that Desmond saying it 'is OOU'.

::Point is, until it is explicitly stated that William is descended from a Kenway, within a context that makes sense and is not one big plothole, only then will we state it is so on articles. -- {{User:Master Sima Yi/sig}} 07:42, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
:::It ''is'' explicitly stated. You can't get much more explicit than "he is your ancestor too." --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 08:26, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

::::It's also explicitly stated that "The Templars ... got no ambition. No passion! No competitive edge!" But is it a fact? [[User:Sadelyrate|Sadelyrate]] ([[w:c:assassinscreed:User talk:Sadelyrate|siniath]]) 09:54, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

::::Maybe, Rebecca just said it to make Templars plans to look dull or something...{{User:AgentG231/sig}}
:::::That is Rebecca's opinion, so in her eyes it is true. If it had been someone besides Desmond saying it, I would agree that they could be mistaken/misinformed or whatnot, but since it was his son. You cannot have an opinion on whether someone is related to someone else; you're either correct, or not. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 11:34, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

::::::And nothing but lack of explicit denial even suggests Desmond's sudden outburst might be based on fact. He might just as well be wrong; how many of us can recite our family tree for, what? The last four, five generations? Why would blood relation dictate one's knowledge of the people who've contributed to one's genepool?
::::::However, if in your opinion that single heated phrase is all the validation required, why not edit William's article? And while you're at it, the Assassins' article to mention that no Assassin has ever been vegan? Same goes for Desmond's son, and the Templars' lack of 'fire'... since as per your earlier comments, attitude/current emotions are 'irrelevant'. If we accept one phrase as fact, we need to accept them all. Regardless of mitigating factors like being an opinion, or being 'untrustworthy.' [[User:Sadelyrate|Sadelyrate]] ([[w:c:assassinscreed:User talk:Sadelyrate|siniath]]) 14:41, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
:::::::"Explicit lack of denial"? He is William's son; if he gets something as fundamentally wrong as knowing who his father's familial relation is then there is something seriously wrong with him. I for one can't accept he might have been mistaken, as then that throws everything else he has ever said into doubt. Not will I accept your assertion that he is untrustworthy (for the same reasons).

::::::::With regards to editing the page, I would have already, but that will do nothing beyond start an edit war with those who insist Desmond has absolutely no control of his vocal patterns once he gets a little antsy. Also, if Desmond was a vegan then I would see merit for the fact being included in his (and the Assassins) article; if Desmond had a son, we should make an article on that (although recent comments by a member of the development team explaining 16's 'son' comment negate the need for an article to be created); the Templars' "lack[ing] fire" is an opinion and should, if suitable, be included in Rebecca's article's Personality and Traits section. What next? --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 17:32, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

:::::::It bears repeating: How many can recite their family tree for the last four, five generations? How many can name even their great-grandparents, not to mention their great-great-great-great-grandparents, or further? And that's without even taking into account Desmond's attested character.
:::::::As for casting doubt on the verity of his words... that bus left a couple of years ago already. For example, in no way can "two dozen couples, some kids" translate into "about 30."

:::::::Whether something was an opinion, or said in a curious state of mind, or as a 'joke', or whatever else is besides the point if we accept things the way you propose we accept Desmond's comment. [[User:Sadelyrate|Sadelyrate]] ([[w:c:assassinscreed:User talk:Sadelyrate|siniath]]) 15:39, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
::::::::Erm, 12x2= 24, plus "some kids" (which could easily be six), certainly translates into 30. You can repeat it as much as you like, the fact that someone else may not be able to recite their family history beyond three generations has absolutely no baring whatsoever on whether Desmond is able to, or not. What I'm proposing is that we take Desmond's quoted, unmistakable comment of "he's your ancestor too" and treat it like we do everything else we have on this wiki.

::::::::"He's you ancestor too" is a pretty definitive comment, leaving no question on whether he was joking, or emotional, or antsy or whatever; he said it as fact. There's no two ways about it. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 18:02, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::"Two dozen '''couples'''". It would be at least forty-eight people at the Farm, not including the kids. --{{User:The Crimson Eagle/sig}} 18:07, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
::::::::::Ugh, long day at work. Can't count now :s --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 18:11, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

::::::::We ''are'' treating it like we do everything else on this wiki.
::::::::And as stated, there's Desmond's attested character to consider. [[User:Sadelyrate|Sadelyrate]] ([[w:c:assassinscreed:User talk:Sadelyrate|siniath]]) 09:55, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

You lot are really still at it, for two days now? --[[User:Kainzorus Prime|Kainzorus Prime]] [[User talk:Kainzorus Prime|Walkie-talkie]] 17:45, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
:<nowiki>*</nowiki>sigh* Apparently. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 18:02, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
::Hey, just asking, How come a man like Desmond come and say 'Hey, he's your ancestor too' to William if he just completed some sequences? If, IF, like Sima, it is explicitly stated that Ratonhnhaké:ton had descendants, it might be correct. Otherwise, why argue with something EVEN the writers haven't confirmed? [[User:Altaïr Skywalker 47|'''Altaïr Skywalker 47''']] [[User talk:Altaïr Skywalker 47|'''Pigeon Coop''']] 00:46, June 28, 2013 (UTC)
:::Say what? --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 08:23, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

::::Ratonhnhaké:ton clearly had descendants, or else there would be no way to relive his genetic memories. In regards to the Desmond/William thing, I'd say it's better to keep undecided information off the Wiki, so then we're saving us the effort of having to remove it later on because we were proved wrong. Not that I'm saying it isn't a valid or unlikely theory, but that's what it remains as, a theory.
:::::That is the source of this discussion; I believe Desmond's statement confirms the relationship between his father and Connor, the others do not. (So in my opinion, it is not "undecided".) Also, please don't forget to sign your posts. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 09:37, June 28, 2013 (UTC)
::::I have a feeling ''Black Flag'' will help to confirm or deny it though. [[User:Slate Vesper|Slate Vesper]] ([[User talk:Slate Vesper|talk]]) 09:33, June 28, 2013 (UTC)
:::::Oh, without a doubt it will. But since it hasn't yet been released, we only have current media to go off of. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 09:37, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

::::::Even if Rat. had descendants, that doesn't mean that Will and Desmond are in the DIRECT path. There are many branches. Anyway that doesn't mean anything here. I'll wait for ''BFlag'' to confirm it. [[User:Altaïr Skywalker 47|'''Altaïr Skywalker 47''']] [[User talk:Altaïr Skywalker 47|'''Pigeon Coop''']] 13:24, June 28, 2013 (UTC)
:::::::What!? Of course Raton had descendants. The whole premise of the game is that Desmond is replaying the memories of his ancestors. Seriously... --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 16:13, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

== Quote ==

I propose to change Ratonhnhake:ton's quote to his narration in the trailer. Is anybody with me?

Cheers,

{{User:AgentG231/sig}}

12:01, August 11, 2013 (UTC)
:Unless the quote is in the game or novel, then it is not canon. --[[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller|talk]]) 12:04, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

::It is already discussed above. And if you insist, then put up a vote. [[User:Altaïr Skywalker 47|Altaïr Skywalker 47]][[User_talk:Altaïr Skywalker 47|Agency Laptop]] 12:06, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

:::It was the trailer for AC III... [[User:AgentG231|'''AgentG231''']] [[User talk:AgentG231|The Action Center]] 12:10, August 11, 2013 (UTC)
::::Which never actually happened, so no, we won't be using a quote from the trailer. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 12:41, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

::::If so, then the quote ''"On this land, I am torn. Part of me wants to fight and repel all outsiders. The other part of me is the outsider."'' (which is used in the 'Early life' section) is also non-canon, as it was taken from the 'Gameplay Premiere' trailer, right? -- '''[[User:Ilan xd|ILan]] ([[User talk:Ilan xd|XD]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ilan xd|Edits]] • [[w:c:rockstargames|Home]] )''' 15:38, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

:If you're going to do all that, you might as well remove all OOU quotes, including the one on Aveline's page, since that comes from a trailer as well. {{User:Stormbeast/sig}} 16:06, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
::Perhaps we should. --{{Signature/Jasca Ducato}} 17:20, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

== Possible Entry to Grand Temple ==

Shortly after the events of "The Tyranny of King Washington", Connor possessed both the Amulet and an Apple of Eden (though he only possessed the latter very briefly). I believe that it should be mentioned in the Trivia section that although he was able to enter the Temple, he was unaware of the fact.
[[Special:Contributions/85.72.77.227|85.72.77.227]] 07:39, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

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Talk:Ratonhnhaké:ton