Assassin's Creed Wiki - User contributions [en-gb]

Talk:Apples of Eden

2012-07-24T09:49:19Z

186.254.1.173: /* Second Apple */

== Misspelled word on template ==

I've just noticed that on the template for the Apples of Eden, it says "Notable weilders". Shouldn't that be "Notable wielders" instead?

I would try to fix that, but I can't change that part. [[User:Slate Orchid|Slate Orchid]] 16:34, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

== Second Apple ==

I think there might be a mistake, due to recent developments. This article states that Altair's apple was passed on to Elizabeth I and eventually Ghandi. if this was the original story of the second apple, it is likely that this is has been boycotted, as it is more likely that Desmond will recover the apple in the next game.

:"it is more likely" is speculation. We only handle facts, and unless stated otherwise in the games, it has to stay with facts. -- [[User:Master Sima Yi|Master Sima Yi]] 23:41, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

:Artifact from Masyaf ended up in the hands of Abstergo, and was already lost in the DIA satelite accident before the events of AC1, as stated in that very game. It's not gonna be recovered, just like it wasn't the same Apple that Ezio had during his life. [[User:-S-|Kainzorus Prime]] [[User talk:-S-|Walkie-talkie]] 00:01, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

USE OF ALTAIRS APPLE

I am confused on how Altair's apple could have fallen into the hands of Elizabeth and Ghandi. From what i understand Altair took the apple from Al Mualim in thw middle ages (roughly 1100 & 1200) and spent quite some time studying it before his return. It was revealed to us in the last installment of the series that Altair kept the apple with him beyond his death. If i comprehend correctly, he trapped hisself in his "library" and sealed it up extremely tight! Then Ezio used the artifacts to unseal the chamber (in roughly 1500+) and discovered the intellegence of keeping it hidden away all the years. So after Ezio, who would have been able to open the doors before Queen Elizabeth and Ghandi initiating a possession line that eventually include them??? [[User:Solo assassin|Solo assassin]] 03:25, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

About the "who would have been able to open the doors before..." i would say that Ezio helped pretty much, since he was the one who opened it in the first place, but it is not stated that it was ever closed again, so if the library's doors and Masyaf castle's gates stayed open after Ezio left in the end of ACR, anyone could have entered there. About how it reached Queen Elizabeth and Ghandi, it is not hard to imagine how they got, as there can be plenty of possibilities, but the important, at least for the game, is that they got and used the Apple, not necessarly how.

BOS 06:49, July 24, 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Apple of Eden 1

2012-07-24T09:31:38Z

186.254.1.173: /* Cyprus? */

{{Talkheader}}

Shouldn't Mario Auditore be next to Ezio in the Assassin Ownership column?

== Al Mualim ==

why is Al Mualim placed under the Assassin Associated Ownership?

:Well, technically, despite his betrayal, Al Mualim ''was'' actually an Assassin Grandmaster. :P Also, please remember to sign your posts! :) --[[User:Piratehunter|'''''P''''''''''i''''''''''r''''''''''a''''''''''t''''''''''e''''''''''h''''''''''u''''''''''n''''''''''t''''''''''e''''''''''r''''']] ([[User talk:Piratehunter|Talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Piratehunter|Contribs]]) 23:56, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

==First or Second?==

All of the related pages say that the First Apple was the one used by Altair and Ezio, as well as the one stolen by Adam and Eve. As far as I'm aware, there's no evidence backing up either of the claims. In fact, the e-mails in AC1 (specifically, the one on the conf. room computer) call the one that was destroyed in the DIA Accident "no. 2". According to Lucy, this was the same one found by Altair. As for Adam and Eve, at this point, we have no way of knowing which one was the one they stole. [[Special:Contributions/98.192.42.30|98.192.42.30]] 18:50, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

== Cyprus? ==

I can only assume from the ending of Bloodlines that Altiar took the Apple with him from Cyrus as he headed east with Maria. Also the Templar Archive in Cyprus was destroyed. How then do the Templars in AC2 get the Apple from Cyprus? It shouldn't be there. I can't recall where Armand Bouchart had the Archive moved but that seems like the place they would find it, though i don't know how Altiar lost it in the first place.

- Altair went back in his older age and put it there before his death for safekeeping. He says this in the Codex.
----

None of this makes sense, unless Lucy was wrong, or Altair ran into two apples. The Templars got an Apple from Cyprus in AC2, yet, the Apple that Altair most of his life, he locked inside Masyaf before he died. What Apple was in Cyprus, then?

[[Special:Contributions/67.180.15.208|67.180.15.208]] 15:43, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

From what i understood, the apple Rodrigo Borgia's men found in Cyprus was another apple (Ezio's Apple of Eden) that was already there. Altair wrote in his codex, in page 26, that he thought that Cyprus would be a good place to hid his apple (Second Apple) but something happened that led him to give up that ideia ('''maybe '''because of the fact that the Templars have retaken their Archive in Cyprus, as stated by Altair in his third memory in ACR), so he kept his Apple and hid it in his library/vault in Masyaf with himself. Years later Abstergo got Altair's Apple, and it was destroyed in the DIA Satellite Accident, which ocurred before the events of AC1. And sometime later Desmond's team found Ezio's Apple hidden beneath the Colosseum in ACB. So, i guess it is highly improbable that the Apple Ezio got in AC2 and Desmond got in ACB was the same Altair got in AC1, but maybe that Ubisoft wanted to make it seem like it was the same Apple, to draw some confusion and questioning between the us, until they finally revealed the truth in ACR, or it was retconned or some other reason.

BOS 06:11, July 24, 2012 (UTC)

== inconsistency napoleon-houdini ==

Maybe i have a solution for it. It's offcours unlikely that the apple that Houdini and Napoleon used, would be placed back at his precise location where Ezio left it. But is it certain Ezio uses nr.1? As we have seen on the map of altair at the end of AC 1, and by the numbering of the pieces, thee are a lot of PoE's, so why not more than 5 apples? Assume that the apple used by Ezio is nr.6, and because it has been 500 years under the colloseum, it hasn't been used by anyone in history, so it doesn't show up in the truth puzzles in ACII.

Just a thought

[[User:EXistenZ!|EXistenZ!]] 09:15, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

:No, there is no proof that it is the First Apple. Therefore, we must create a separate article for the Apple seen in-game. -- [[User:Master Sima Yi|Master Sima Yi]] 00:16, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
::I was wondering the same thing as EXistenZ. Since there is no proof it's the same Apple, I'm thinking the trivia bit about the inconsistency should be removed or at least edited. Anyone disagree?
::[[User:Hylian90|Hylian90]] 04:50, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
:::We will put any information about the in-game Apple in '''Sixth Apple'''. -- [[User:Master Sima Yi|Master Sima Yi]] 09:58, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
:::: I can move it in the next couple of hours, if no one disagrees. I was really wondering about this too, since it seemed like such a huge inconsistency for Ubisoft to make. -- [[User:A Black Rabbit|A Black Rabbit]] 23:11, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
::::
::::Hey,Im glad that some one cleared this up,as this apple has been used through out history and could not be the same one used by Ezio and Altair,which is the Sixth Apple.[[User:FrazzleDazzle|FrazzleDazzle]] 09:22, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
::::
::::

== It's Piece of Eden, not apple ==

Why do you people call it Apple anyway? 
There is no evidence it was apple indeed. All the texts IRL (and in-game i Guess) say about fruit, not apple.

:... -- [[User:Master Sima Yi|Master Sima Yi]] 15:06, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
: 
:If I remind it well, characters ingame (not presentday) sometimes refer to it as apple. Rodrigo Borgia did it when confronted by ezio in venice, and also Cesare calls it Apple. Out of my head, i cant name any others, but i'm sure there are. I assume it is to make a difference between the staff and the sword, since not all PoE's look alike.
:
:[[User:EXistenZ!|EXistenZ!]] 17:11, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
: 
:
:If you recall from the "true" history of human kind and the [[Those Who Came Before|Gods]], it was the Pieces of Eden causing "miracles" or other events, although the events in and of themselves actually happened. They were made into different things, like the Staff (Papal and Tsarist staff), the Shroud (what caused Yeshua's ressurrection), the Sword, etc. This Piece of Eden is made into a sphere, and ended up being involved in a //wide// variety of Apple myths, indicated by one of the [[Glyphs]] puzzles, where you have to select all of the mythical paintings involving Apples. It's why it earns the moniker (nickname) "Apple of Eden". -- [[User:A Black Rabbit|A Black Rabbit]] 23:07, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

== No proof that Templars have any Apples ==

Apple pages should be no longer edited to say "Under Templar possession" or something similar. Even though glyphs tell us that 5 apples were used by the Templars, we known one was lost when Hitler was killed, and we don't know the status of the other 4.

The Templars clearly don't have access to other apples by 2012, because they are so desperate to acquire another one after the one that they had was destroyed in the DIA incident. 07:11, December 10, 2010 [[Special:Contributions/24.76.215.27|24.76.215.27]]

: First, please sign your post by either using four tildes (~) or pressing the Signature button. It's easier to be able to keep track of conversation. :)

: Second, I can agree with your top paragraph to a point. However, I think a "Unknown, last in <group> control." would not be incorrect, and would explain things from the very beginning of the article. Where we go from there is speculation... which is what your second paragraph is. Saying "they've lost it" is just as much a stretch that "they've got it". The e-mail from Alan Rikkin in the Conference room states that they're looking for multiple artifacts, and that the satellite is just one stage in their plans. If you'll remember, people like Altair, Ezio, and Desmond can't be controlled by their minds, but they can be physically inhibited (displayed by the end fight with Al Mualim). There is definitely a need for more than one, and an even greater need that the Assassins don't get a hold of any more to provide a resistance.

: There's reasonable evidence that the Templars hold Apples 1, 3, and 5 (and formerly 2, before its destruction, as well as the artifact that was destroyed/went missing/stopped working in the Philadelphia Experiment). Subject 16 only notes their (the five Apples) presence and what large world event it was involved that it ended up changing hands, and the implications of how far the Templars have effected the world. I don't think thats necessarily indicative of saying "the Templars lost them all". They may have lost it, they may still have them. *shrug* But I think a mention that its probably under Templar control wouldn't be amiss. Thats just my two cents, though. -- [[User:A Black Rabbit|A Black Rabbit]] 10:17, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
:
:
: The game gives little further info on any PoE really... Look at the Sword. It was taken from Joan of Arc in the early 15th century, roughly just a few decades before Borgia became influential in Rome as the Templar leader, yet no mention of the sword is made...
:
: As for the Apples, it's definitely an either way as to who has them now. I say only that they probably don't have any because if the Templars had any Apples, they'd be all clear to launch... but on the other hand, it's very unlikely that Abstergo can just "lose" 3 apples within a few decades. Hopefully the next game clears things up... at least 50 of these artifacts... it's overwhelming to imagine. -- Vaxis 2:21, December 11, 2010 (UTC)

== ??? ==

why does it say that the assassins didn't had the apple?

: Because they didn't (at least not this one). It's been theorized that the main AC Apple is the '''Sixth Apple''', not the First. =[[User:GuardDog|GuardDog]] 18:26, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

== those who came before ==

its mentioned in Eris's page that her apple was the first apple of eden, and seeing as the gods were real in the assassins creed universe, doesnt that mean Eris and Aphrodite are also owners, since it belonged to Eris, and Aphrodite got it from Paris of Troy??? Tdhartjenatyahoo

Talk:Apple of Eden 1

2012-07-24T09:11:41Z

186.254.1.173: /* Cyprus? */

{{Talkheader}}

Shouldn't Mario Auditore be next to Ezio in the Assassin Ownership column?

== Al Mualim ==

why is Al Mualim placed under the Assassin Associated Ownership?

:Well, technically, despite his betrayal, Al Mualim ''was'' actually an Assassin Grandmaster. :P Also, please remember to sign your posts! :) --[[User:Piratehunter|'''''P''''''''''i''''''''''r''''''''''a''''''''''t''''''''''e''''''''''h''''''''''u''''''''''n''''''''''t''''''''''e''''''''''r''''']] ([[User talk:Piratehunter|Talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Piratehunter|Contribs]]) 23:56, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

==First or Second?==

All of the related pages say that the First Apple was the one used by Altair and Ezio, as well as the one stolen by Adam and Eve. As far as I'm aware, there's no evidence backing up either of the claims. In fact, the e-mails in AC1 (specifically, the one on the conf. room computer) call the one that was destroyed in the DIA Accident "no. 2". According to Lucy, this was the same one found by Altair. As for Adam and Eve, at this point, we have no way of knowing which one was the one they stole. [[Special:Contributions/98.192.42.30|98.192.42.30]] 18:50, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

== Cyprus? ==

I can only assume from the ending of Bloodlines that Altiar took the Apple with him from Cyrus as he headed east with Maria. Also the Templar Archive in Cyprus was destroyed. How then do the Templars in AC2 get the Apple from Cyprus? It shouldn't be there. I can't recall where Armand Bouchart had the Archive moved but that seems like the place they would find it, though i don't know how Altiar lost it in the first place.

- Altair went back in his older age and put it there before his death for safekeeping. He says this in the Codex.
----

None of this makes sense, unless Lucy was wrong, or Altair ran into two apples. The Templars got an Apple from Cyprus in AC2, yet, the Apple that Altair most of his life, he locked inside Masyaf before he died. What Apple was in Cyprus, then?

[[Special:Contributions/67.180.15.208|67.180.15.208]] 15:43, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

From what i understood, the apple Rodrigo Borgia's men found in Cyprus was another apple (Ezio's Apple of Eden) that was already there. Altair wrote in his codex, in page 26, that he thought that Cyprus would be a good place to hid his apple but something happened that led him to give up that ideia ('''maybe '''because of the fact that the Templars have retaken the Archive in Cyprus, as stated by Altair in his third memory in ACR), so he kept his Apple and hid it in his library/vault in Masyaf with himself. Years later Abstergo got Altair's Apple, and it was destroyed in the DIA Satellite Accident, which ocurred before the events of AC1. And sometime later Desmond's team found Ezio's Apple hidden beneath the Colosseum in ACB. So, i guess it is highly improbable that the Apple Ezio got in AC2 was the same Altair got in AC1, but more likely that Ubisoft wanted to make it seem like it was the same Apple, to draw some confusion and questioning between the fans, until they finally revealed the truth in ACR.

BOS 06:11, July 24, 2012 (UTC)

== inconsistency napoleon-houdini ==

Maybe i have a solution for it. It's offcours unlikely that the apple that Houdini and Napoleon used, would be placed back at his precise location where Ezio left it. But is it certain Ezio uses nr.1? As we have seen on the map of altair at the end of AC 1, and by the numbering of the pieces, thee are a lot of PoE's, so why not more than 5 apples? Assume that the apple used by Ezio is nr.6, and because it has been 500 years under the colloseum, it hasn't been used by anyone in history, so it doesn't show up in the truth puzzles in ACII.

Just a thought

[[User:EXistenZ!|EXistenZ!]] 09:15, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

:No, there is no proof that it is the First Apple. Therefore, we must create a separate article for the Apple seen in-game. -- [[User:Master Sima Yi|Master Sima Yi]] 00:16, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
::I was wondering the same thing as EXistenZ. Since there is no proof it's the same Apple, I'm thinking the trivia bit about the inconsistency should be removed or at least edited. Anyone disagree?
::[[User:Hylian90|Hylian90]] 04:50, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
:::We will put any information about the in-game Apple in '''Sixth Apple'''. -- [[User:Master Sima Yi|Master Sima Yi]] 09:58, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
:::: I can move it in the next couple of hours, if no one disagrees. I was really wondering about this too, since it seemed like such a huge inconsistency for Ubisoft to make. -- [[User:A Black Rabbit|A Black Rabbit]] 23:11, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
::::
::::Hey,Im glad that some one cleared this up,as this apple has been used through out history and could not be the same one used by Ezio and Altair,which is the Sixth Apple.[[User:FrazzleDazzle|FrazzleDazzle]] 09:22, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
::::
::::

== It's Piece of Eden, not apple ==

Why do you people call it Apple anyway? 
There is no evidence it was apple indeed. All the texts IRL (and in-game i Guess) say about fruit, not apple.

:... -- [[User:Master Sima Yi|Master Sima Yi]] 15:06, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
: 
:If I remind it well, characters ingame (not presentday) sometimes refer to it as apple. Rodrigo Borgia did it when confronted by ezio in venice, and also Cesare calls it Apple. Out of my head, i cant name any others, but i'm sure there are. I assume it is to make a difference between the staff and the sword, since not all PoE's look alike.
:
:[[User:EXistenZ!|EXistenZ!]] 17:11, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
: 
:
:If you recall from the "true" history of human kind and the [[Those Who Came Before|Gods]], it was the Pieces of Eden causing "miracles" or other events, although the events in and of themselves actually happened. They were made into different things, like the Staff (Papal and Tsarist staff), the Shroud (what caused Yeshua's ressurrection), the Sword, etc. This Piece of Eden is made into a sphere, and ended up being involved in a //wide// variety of Apple myths, indicated by one of the [[Glyphs]] puzzles, where you have to select all of the mythical paintings involving Apples. It's why it earns the moniker (nickname) "Apple of Eden". -- [[User:A Black Rabbit|A Black Rabbit]] 23:07, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

== No proof that Templars have any Apples ==

Apple pages should be no longer edited to say "Under Templar possession" or something similar. Even though glyphs tell us that 5 apples were used by the Templars, we known one was lost when Hitler was killed, and we don't know the status of the other 4.

The Templars clearly don't have access to other apples by 2012, because they are so desperate to acquire another one after the one that they had was destroyed in the DIA incident. 07:11, December 10, 2010 [[Special:Contributions/24.76.215.27|24.76.215.27]]

: First, please sign your post by either using four tildes (~) or pressing the Signature button. It's easier to be able to keep track of conversation. :)

: Second, I can agree with your top paragraph to a point. However, I think a "Unknown, last in <group> control." would not be incorrect, and would explain things from the very beginning of the article. Where we go from there is speculation... which is what your second paragraph is. Saying "they've lost it" is just as much a stretch that "they've got it". The e-mail from Alan Rikkin in the Conference room states that they're looking for multiple artifacts, and that the satellite is just one stage in their plans. If you'll remember, people like Altair, Ezio, and Desmond can't be controlled by their minds, but they can be physically inhibited (displayed by the end fight with Al Mualim). There is definitely a need for more than one, and an even greater need that the Assassins don't get a hold of any more to provide a resistance.

: There's reasonable evidence that the Templars hold Apples 1, 3, and 5 (and formerly 2, before its destruction, as well as the artifact that was destroyed/went missing/stopped working in the Philadelphia Experiment). Subject 16 only notes their (the five Apples) presence and what large world event it was involved that it ended up changing hands, and the implications of how far the Templars have effected the world. I don't think thats necessarily indicative of saying "the Templars lost them all". They may have lost it, they may still have them. *shrug* But I think a mention that its probably under Templar control wouldn't be amiss. Thats just my two cents, though. -- [[User:A Black Rabbit|A Black Rabbit]] 10:17, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
:
:
: The game gives little further info on any PoE really... Look at the Sword. It was taken from Joan of Arc in the early 15th century, roughly just a few decades before Borgia became influential in Rome as the Templar leader, yet no mention of the sword is made...
:
: As for the Apples, it's definitely an either way as to who has them now. I say only that they probably don't have any because if the Templars had any Apples, they'd be all clear to launch... but on the other hand, it's very unlikely that Abstergo can just "lose" 3 apples within a few decades. Hopefully the next game clears things up... at least 50 of these artifacts... it's overwhelming to imagine. -- Vaxis 2:21, December 11, 2010 (UTC)

== ??? ==

why does it say that the assassins didn't had the apple?

: Because they didn't (at least not this one). It's been theorized that the main AC Apple is the '''Sixth Apple''', not the First. =[[User:GuardDog|GuardDog]] 18:26, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

== those who came before ==

its mentioned in Eris's page that her apple was the first apple of eden, and seeing as the gods were real in the assassins creed universe, doesnt that mean Eris and Aphrodite are also owners, since it belonged to Eris, and Aphrodite got it from Paris of Troy??? Tdhartjenatyahoo